Phil / Stonecut

Have just got in from work and I see an interesting few posts have developed. As Phil suggests I used the phrase "non-yeast" to contrast with naan made using a yeast based recipe. I don't think that's cheating but just simply making a distinction between the two. Yes of course there are leavening agents used. Naan is by definition leavened bread after all and it would be a bit of a feat to make a naan without them! As an aside I knew that there was baking powder or soda in self-raising flour but I've never heard of there being instant yeast in it and if there was wouldn't the dough rise before it was cooked?

Stonecut is asking what are the advantages of a non-yeast naan. As I understand it they were created by BIRs (like most recipes) to replicate traditional home cookery, therefore I believe that some of the advantages include a removal of proving time and that they are more simple to produce (i.e. they don't have the problems associated with yeast that Phil mentions) but also the dough can be produced in bulk, stored for the whole of service and then quickly cooked to order as demand requires.

I agree with Phil that yeast is better and when I can be bothered to faff around with it I will happily make yeast risen naans. For that's not really the issue. This site is about BIR cooking and yeast based naans are not BIR. I'd love to be able to say they taste better, however that's not the case. Are they as good as BIR naans cooked in a tandoor? Again the answer is no but they come pretty close.

This is a topic I come back to often.

I realize that BIR naan breads by and large do not use yeast - for the reasons of convenience, speed, predictability, etc.

However, I have never made a single non-yeast naan recipe that hasn't come out cakey in consistency, and baking soda-ey in taste. With yeast, my home results have been infinitely better.

I've put it down to cooking in a tandoor, or is there more to it?

Many thanks for your v.good post SL, i guess you have a electric hob? [like me] i find blow torch to direct with its blue flame, a yellow floppy flame works better, IE invert your pan [a thick pan or tava to hold the heat] 180 and let the gas burner lick the bread, like CBM shows in his post.



wetting the back of the dough is best to get it to stick to the pan.

not criticizing your top looking naans tho mate 

No worries UB - yes I have an electric hob so no alternative. I use a blowtorch designed for the kitchen, but I have toyed with the idea of getting a builder's blowtorch which is much more powerful. Josh the cakeyness you are mentioning I can identify with. I think the way to avoid this is to make sure that you can cook your naans on as high heat as possible and as quickly as possible - I also think the charred / burnt bits add a "nutty" flavour which can help to avoid that cakey taste.

Thanks for the clarification, SL. I do realize the advantages (and disadavantages) of other leavening agents when compared to yeast. I can also see why baking powder/baking soda would be a much better choice for a BIR since the dough won't "overgo" over time (is that comprehensible in English ?). This is one area where I actually think I know what I'm doing. I guess the headline sent me off in a wrong direction, though.

However, how come professional pizza places used yeasted dough all day long ? Following that line of logic: Wouldn't it make more sense for them to make pizza dough with other leavening agents ? What I'm trying to say is: I personally wouldn't be too sure that BIRs *never* use yeast for their Naans. I mean making the dough is a snap, right ?

Quote from: StoneCut on October 26, 2012, 08:16 AM
Thanks for the clarification, SL. I do realize the advantages (and disadavantages) of other leavening agents when compared to yeast. I can also see why baking powder/baking soda would be a much better choice for a BIR since the dough won't "overgo" over time (is that comprehensible in English ?). This is one area where I actually think I know what I'm doing. I guess the headline sent me off in a wrong direction, though.

However, how come professional pizza places used yeasted dough all day long ? Following that line of logic: Wouldn't it make more sense for them to make pizza dough with other leavening agents ? What I'm trying to say is: I personally wouldn't be too sure that BIRs *never* use yeast for their Naans. I mean making the dough is a snap, right ?

Stonecut I think that no-one can be sure that BIRs never use yeast in naans however it seems to be regular practice to not do as. As for pizza places I can well understand why they use yeast - that's all they do, they don have to worry about anything else. Also they are not run by single owner proprietors so the likes of Domino's and Pizza Hut have an advantage that they have a corporate machine behind them which means they use economies of scale to know their market in a way which no BIR can do. So, they have ability to "manufacture" their product employing a factory production-like process in a way that bakers of the standard white loaf do, allbeit that it's done on a local scale.

I wasn't really referring to places like Domino's or Pizza Hut (Pizza Hut gets dough delivered in frozen state, btw). I mean little Mom&Pop pizza places. We have millions of them over here in Germany, maybe even more than there are Takeaways in the UK. They all make their own dough with yeast (which is *very* similar to Naan). I used to work in one of those places and we only made dough twice a day - it would just rise and we'd knock it again until it had risen too much (or got baked). Therefore, I don't see an issue with a BIR making yeast-based naans at all. For what it's worth, though, I'll take it as granted that BIRs do actually use the baking soda/powder combo instead. Just the reasons are not as clear to me as they are to others.

I had tried 3 or 4 recipes from this site using ingredients such as self raising flour, baking powder, eggs and sugar.
All of which tasted cakey. (e.g. scones, crumpets, pancakes, etc.)
If you're going to use the same ingredients as baking a cake, its going to be hard to make a naan taste of bread.
I tried various cooking methods with all the recipes used and it wasn't down to the heat or method.
In fact, my thick iron skillet would get too hot on occasion and burn the bases instantly.
   
It wasn't until i tried a yeast based recipe from the bbc food website that i had got closer to the bread taste.
The last recipe i tried was happy chris' and they were really good. 
Easy recipe and not a victoria sponge in sight.
So it has to be yeast all the way for me.

Cheers, Frank. 

edit**
p.s. Stephen, my comments above were in reference to other posts in this thread and in general and not to you or your recipe. I say this now after seeing that your recipe includes all the ingredients i mentioned.

Thinking of pizza and cake just jogged my memory.
I used to use an independant pizza place under the flyover in croydon.
They would make their own garlic bread in a cake tin and sell it in wedges.
The texture was closer to cake than bread and it had honey running through it.
It was Delicious!  ;D

Quote from: Unclebuck on October 25, 2012, 07:31 PM
wetting the back of the dough is best to get it to stick to the pan.

UB,

had missed that photo of CMB - impressive. presuming you still use your recipe which is quite wet but not wet enough to stick - how do you wet the dough. ps your dough and pat a cake trick still remains my choice.

Stephen - again impressive, real dedication and food for thought. the only additional thought that jumps to my mind is that i've never been able to get a good taste from SR without leaving out the baking powder. it seems to add a sconey taste.