Quote from: 976bar on October 05, 2012, 09:11 PM

Quote from: chillihothot on October 05, 2012, 08:59 PM
Interesting, thankyou. Spices are most certainly cooked (fried, but not burned) before adding any puree.
The base recipe I got from a Taz mod (the rick stein one I believe). Having tried other bases this one was the one I enjoy the most.

What I 'm experiencing isnt a "rawness" as such, but like Phil says, that lack of maturity/smoothness.

Don't get me wrong I'm very happy with where I'm at by and large, its more about the finer tuning now that gets really tricky.

Ok, but I am failing to understand here, how Rick Stein has inspired you to a BIR base somehow.... maybe I have missed something from the cooker of Fish.....

I wouldnt say Rick Stein inspired me, no, but he was mentioned in a thread from Taz where I got the recipe (cant find it), and I have got good results with it so far. If you have any other suggestions for good bases I'm happy to try them.

Frank,
I am really curious to try this technique now. How long is your overall cook time for the base?

Hopefully my online order (Ghee and Mr Naga) will come tomorrow, so I can start. Cant wait.

Quote from: chillihothot on October 05, 2012, 10:13 PM
Frank,
I am really curious to try this technique now. How long is your overall cook time for the base?

Hmmm, theres a question.
Cant say i really noticed the timings sorry. I just cook by feel. At a guess i would say anywhere between 2.5 - 3.5 hours.

Quote from: 976bar on October 05, 2012, 08:21 PM
The rawness you are getting is (I believe) not cooking the spices thoroughly before adding other ingredients. There is a difference of opinion on this forum of whether to add the diluted tomato puree/paste before adding the spices or after.

I definitely choose the latter, so oil, G&G (unless you are cooking onions/peppers etc, which you would soften through first) then the spice mix and chili powder, (if you want you can add any further spices/leaves later on, but I feel that the spice mix and chili powder needs to be cooked through prior to adding the tomato puree/paste.

You'll know when you have it right, because when you add the tomato paste, and stir it in the spice mix, the aroma of the spice mix & chili will hit the back of your throat and make you cough and your eyes will water, if you don't get this then I don't think you have cooked the spices quite long enough. They should just be on the point of singeing and to get this right you will need to cook quite a few curries in order to achieve the rightness (if that is the right word to use) prior to adding the tomato paste/puree.

The mixture should then produce quite a lot of steam/smoke as the tomato paste/puree briefly cools the spice mixture and then starts to heat rapidly and will then burn the spices as it gathers heat, so have a good ladle of base ready to add about 30 seconds after adding the tomato paste/puree.

Although my technique is the same as yours, Bob, I don't get "spice mix & chili hitting the back of my throat and making me cough and my eyes water".  I suspect that this is because (in deference in SWMBO) I try, as far as possible, to avoid splashing while cooking curries, and I therefore tend to cook at a fairly moderate heat.  But as I also don't get the taste of raw (or even slightly raw) spices in my curries, I do believe that the "spice mix & chili hitting the back of your throat and making you cough and your eyes water" is not essential -- cooking the spices properly is, but the side effects are not.  IMVHO, of course.

** Phil.

Phil, you can achieve the throat hit on a low to med heat if you put a lid on after the spices and tomato puree goes in. And no mess either. Cook for a minute-ish depending how much oil and water you have in there and also how long you can resist the temptation to check and stir before it burns
That chilli steam and roasted tomato flavour will definitely slap you round the face when the lid comes off for some gravy.

Quote from: DalPuri on October 06, 2012, 12:01 AM
Phil, you can achieve the throat hit on a low to med heat if you put a lid on after the spices and tomato puree goes in. And no mess either. Cook for a minute-ish depending how much oil and water you have in there and also how long you can resist the temptation to check and stir before it burns   That chilli steam and roasted tomato flavour will definitely slap you round the face when the lid comes off for some gravy.

Well, I shall have to try it ("nothing ventured, nothing gained"), but to stop stirring -- even for a fraction of a second -- goes so much against the grain for me.  I know that Chef Ajoy recently advised that one should learn to abstain from stirring, but it is so much a part of my style of spice cooking  that (rather like a smoker who finds himself without a cigarette) I would not know what to do with my hands

** Phil.

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on October 05, 2012, 11:32 PM

Quote from: 976bar on October 05, 2012, 08:21 PM
The rawness you are getting is (I believe) not cooking the spices thoroughly before adding other ingredients. There is a difference of opinion on this forum of whether to add the diluted tomato puree/paste before adding the spices or after.

I definitely choose the latter, so oil, G&G (unless you are cooking onions/peppers etc, which you would soften through first) then the spice mix and chili powder, (if you want you can add any further spices/leaves later on, but I feel that the spice mix and chili powder needs to be cooked through prior to adding the tomato puree/paste.

You'll know when you have it right, because when you add the tomato paste, and stir it in the spice mix, the aroma of the spice mix & chili will hit the back of your throat and make you cough and your eyes will water, if you don't get this then I don't think you have cooked the spices quite long enough. They should just be on the point of singeing and to get this right you will need to cook quite a few curries in order to achieve the rightness (if that is the right word to use) prior to adding the tomato paste/puree.

The mixture should then produce quite a lot of steam/smoke as the tomato paste/puree briefly cools the spice mixture and then starts to heat rapidly and will then burn the spices as it gathers heat, so have a good ladle of base ready to add about 30 seconds after adding the tomato paste/puree.

Although my technique is the same as yours, Bob, I don't get "spice mix & chili hitting the back of my throat and making me cough and my eyes water".  I suspect that this is because (in deference in SWMBO) I try, as far as possible, to avoid splashing while cooking curries, and I therefore tend to cook at a fairly moderate heat.  But as I also don't get the taste of raw (or even slightly raw) spices in my curries, I do believe that the "spice mix & chili hitting the back of your throat and making you cough and your eyes water" is not essential -- cooking the spices properly is, but the side effects are not.  IMVHO, of course.

** Phil.

No, Indeed, you do not need to cook the spices to the point of getting hit in the back of the throat, but the point I was trying to get over is that you do need to cook the spices through thoroughly so as to avoid a rawness in the final dish.

Ok base is bubbling away I also fried the onions and garlic for much longer than usual as well.
BTW the base recipe is Admins base based off that rick stien show where RS stole the recipe from a real curry house.

15 bulbs of garlic. Mmmm I think thats what gives it that authentic flavour.

Quote from: chillihothot on October 06, 2012, 05:07 PM
Ok base is bubbling away I also fried the onions and garlic for much longer than usual as well.
BTW the base recipe is Admins base based off that rick stien show where RS stole the recipe from a real curry house.

15 bulbs of garlic. Mmmm I think thats what gives it that authentic flavour.

15 bulbs of garlic  or 15 cloves 

Bulbs...no cloves...lol.

Ok so the results are in...dream curry yes or no.

Firstly Frank/Phil your suggestions definately helped. The depth was much greater. It was a vibrant and somewhat midrange. Thankyou both!

However if I was to make an analogy, it was like an amazing rock band, superb all round, playing without a bass player. Those low notes were missing. The hits to the back-middle of my palate still werent there.

I'm not even sure that taste is appropriate but I would like to be able to hit it if I wish.

I strayed from your advice slightly due to time pressure. Cooking time was 3 hours. No cooling time could be afforded.

Very close, just missing that bass now.

I feel I need to clarify, its that hit in the back middle of the roof of your mouth, I'm not getting that. Argggh.