George i only removed oil from the final curry after finishing the cooking. the base was left as per the spec for the entire process.   nothing went wrong, it was a nice meal, but not my best. and certainly not my worst, about average.

for madras i like the kd1 base with a bit more oil, and some green pepper. but i intend to try that base with the spice mix from the taz base next on my list !  so all is not lost     

Quote from: PaulP on February 01, 2011, 01:32 PM
The thing that distinguishes my home made curries from the local TA I use seems to be contained in the oil itself. Tasting just a drop of the oil on the side of the plate or the TA container immediately reveals that special quality, a moorish oniony spicy but sweet flavour

I 100% agree with that assessement PaulP!  Taste the oil from a decent BIR curry and it has all of the qualities that you indicate!  Does this (or any other recipe on this forum) have these qualities?  I think not?

If not, why not?  And what do we need to do to replicate it?

I have to say that I have tried my own spiced oil (yes, including water) and your (another sites) oil (not using water) and both don't have that sweetness you mention.  Do youi agree?

I do think that Taz's recipe has the virtue of producing the spiced oil "in situ"....which might be what most BIRs do?

I agree CA, this recipe does not and neither do any other ones I've tried.

I know you've said this yourself before but I believe the only way to get this oil flavour is to make the spiced oil yourself as a separate process from cooking a base.

Paul

Edit: Maybe I didn't read your post properly or you edited it.

Did you feel that the spiced oil recipe from the other site in any way improved on things?
I've tried it twice and no I wouldn't describe it as sweet but it did seem to move me a bit closer. It also had the effect of creating a new imbalance so I had to reduce garlic and spice levels in the final curries.

Perhaps the simple answer is that we need to cook a 60 litre base, keep it simmering on and off for a few days and the oil flavour will arrive naturally.

Paul 

for those wondering, i added no oil to the pan, just added base then chopped onion etc to the first 200 ml of base. i will have another go , as i still have lots of base left.   

Hi Guys

These last couple of posts are starting to concern me and raise questions...

There still seems to be and air of general if not considerable disappointment regarding what we have just cooked.

Why are some, still so disappointed when myself and I think Razor have what we believe to be personally as break through moments?

Am I cooking something in a different way to some of you without even knowing it?

Are the restaurants round my way that I have become used to actually rather poor in comparison to your regulars? I still maintain, that what I have produced recently is far superior to my local TA and up there with some of the good restaurants that I know in the local area. It has every smell, taste and quality that is BIR.

I am not saying that it cannot be further improved, of this I am sure it can BTW.

For instance as Paul mentions, the use of spiced oil. Personally I think (I have no proof whatsoever) that most BIR's do not make a dedicated spiced oil, I think it is a by-product of a massive pot of base. This we obviously cannot duplicate in our home kitchens and so a dedicated separate process is necessary.

However, I did not miss the addition of the spiced oil with this last test. It had the smell and taste. As I cook now, I never seem to get a toffee, I do however when the oil and every other component is correct get a sudden change in aroma, like a switch and I know the dish is now ready to start the finishing additions of base etc. Do you all get this 'switch' in aroma?

I really need to know why we are not getting even similar results in some cases? and massively keen to keep some enthusiasm going and prevent us going round in circles.

Regards all

Quote from: PaulP on February 01, 2011, 01:48 PM
Edit: Maybe I didn't read your post properly or you edited it.

Did you feel that the spiced oil recipe from the other site in any way improved on things?
I've tried it twice and no I wouldn't describe it as sweet but it did seem to move me a bit closer. It also had the effect of creating a new imbalance so I had to reduce garlic and spice levels in the final curries.

Sorry PaulP, I have a bad (?) habit or reading my posts and then editing them (in an attempt to, hopefully,  make them clearer!).

I didn't feel that the oil from "the other site" improved things compared to my own spiced oil (though, I agree that, to minimise water in it, will presumably improve storage life).  Both oils, in my opinion, lacked the distinct sweetness that you mentioned (though I do feel the spiciness they impart is a step in the right direction).  I felt that the oil from "the other site" tasted too much of green peppers for my liking.  And I ditched the resultant "onion/pepper paste".  I felt it added nothing positive to my curries.

Quote from: solarsplace on February 01, 2011, 02:18 PM
I really need to know why we are not getting even similar results in some cases? and massively keen to keep some enthusiasm going and prevent us going round in circles.

I think it's quite simple SP, we all have different experiences, yardsticks and aspirations.  Concensus is never going to happen.  Nothing much to worry about...

Quote from: solarsplace on February 01, 2011, 02:18 PM
Hi Guys

These last couple of posts are starting to concern me and raise questions...

There still seems to be and air of general if not considerable disappointment regarding what we have just cooked.

Why are some, still so disappointed when myself and I think Razor have what we believe to be personally as break through moments?

Am I cooking something in a different way to some of you without even knowing it?

Are the restaurants round my way that I have become used to actually rather poor in comparison to your regulars? I still maintain, that what I have produced recently is far superior to my local TA and up there with some of the good restaurants that I know in the local area. It has every smell, taste and quality that is BIR.

I am not saying that it cannot be further improved, of this I am sure it can BTW.

For instance as Paul mentions, the use of spiced oil. Personally I think (I have no proof whatsoever) that most BIR's do not make a dedicated spiced oil, I think it is a by-product of a massive pot of base. This we obviously cannot duplicate in our home kitchens and so a dedicated separate process is necessary.

However, I did not miss the addition of the spiced oil with this last test. It had the smell and taste. As I cook now, I never seem to get a toffee, I do however when the oil and every other component is correct get a sudden change in aroma, like a switch and I know the dish is now ready to start the finishing additions of base etc. Do you all get this 'switch' in aroma?

I really need to know why we are not getting even similar results in some cases? and massively keen to keep some enthusiasm going and prevent us going round in circles.

Regards all

Hi solarsplace,
A good point and well made.

I have said that this will not be for everyone, so many different tastes for so many different people. Let alone the old favourite, regional variation.
It is also worth remembering that some will not get the method right resulting in what they believe to be an inferior curry.
There are those who will never be pleased no matter what, I wish I could have access to their local curry house :
I am glad that you have found something that works so well for you.
Regards,
Mick

@ CA

I may experiment with cooking some sweet onions, garlic and spices in oil in smaller batches than the recipe from the other site and try to build up the recipe piece by piece. If I have any success I'll post it up.

@ SP

I'm really pleased you and Razor have found a breakthrough. Don't get me wrong - I like my curries and everybody else I have served them to has been very impressed.
If I could never cook a better curry than this I would still continue to cook them twice a week and enjoy them.

It's just a little thing missing from them so the quest goes on.

Regards,

Paul

its quite likely i may have been happier 2 years ago when i new a bit less. i have done a fair bit of playing around with my own bases and recipies on my own. still not got that far mind. but i guess i have covered what the taz base and recipes produced a while back. so maybe its just a learning curve thing.

i always new the taste i was after is not written in black and white on this forum. its something you need to scope out yourself to a large extent. the chef at my local would assist, and advise but he felt i should do the trial and error to arrive at my own special taste. he certainly wasnt going to spill the beans, but hinted that its all about gradual chnages to your recipies. i fully believe this. that toffee taste is nothing more than a spot on method and  , technique .