Quote from: JerryM on February 16, 2010, 08:40 AM
trouble is can't see how u can get the dish right if the base is out

That's 100% correct and is the whole point Jerry.  That being the case, it would indicate that your curry base (and/or cooking technique) is wrong and requires attention.

Quote from: Cory Ander on February 16, 2010, 10:41 AM

Quote from: JerryM on February 16, 2010, 08:40 AM
trouble is can't see how u can get the dish right if the base is out

That's 100% correct

Another dangerous assumption. Few things in this area are 100% certain and certainly not the statement above. For example, if the base is too bland and a bit boring (as I think many BIRs bases probably are, for good reason), then a competent chef should be able to fully compensate for it when preparing the final dish.

As for posting hardly any recipes and no photos of dishes I've made, I'm guilty of that. I have virtually no original recipes and I'm not lucky enough to have been inside a BIR kitchen, let alone where the chef has given me permission to post his recipes here. I use recipes like Blade's chicken tikka and have reported back here on how good it is. The search for that dish was over several years' ago. I don't believe it's ethical to take a recipe like Blade's, change it a bit, like by adding some yoghurt, and then post a 'new' recipe as if you're 90% responsible for it. As for photos, I could set up a fabulous looking dish, with nice flowers or something in the background and have you all drooling, even if it tasted like a stagnant pond. It proves nothing.

What will be more interesting is if we eventually make 'critical mass' on the Come Dine idea. This will be far more revealing. There's only two things that count - delivery and taste. I suspect it's because most members are not confident in either or both of those two aspects, that the take-up rate has been very slow. I may be correct in suggesting it could take 18 months to arrange some dinner parties, for more reasons than my building work. Don't let me put anyone off, either. I'm not going to scoff at mediocre food served up by anyone, given they're up for the idea. Good for them! Better that, than not subscribe at all. And it should prove whether anyone can serve up the 'real deal' or whether this forum is just one big talking shop.

I think we would have enough trouble even agreeing to a best base recipe.

For example I no longer like the idea of carrot, potatoes or fresh corriander in a base sauce. I like to add corriander to taste in the final dish. There is no one correct recipe for a BIR base - there are many variations as we have seen when people have gotten access to real base recipes.

Paul.

Quote from: George on February 16, 2010, 11:12 AM
Few things in this area are 100% certain and certainly not the statement above......It (photos) proves nothing.

The we agree to disagree (again) then (or, more precisely, disagree to agree!)

I am largely guilty of lack of photos , and have only posted 3 recipies. The main reason i dont post my latest efforts is 1) i dont know i can stand all the criticism. 2) if i post the full base and recipe (a years fecking hard work) one tiny mistake in base or recipe can throw it all off kilter. so i seriously doubt members will reproduce it easily, . this will lead to criticism, and do my head in. (3) i am not doing much that isnt already well posted here anyway. possibly in a slightly different way to some members, which may or may not improve the taste (debatable)  Most of my improvement in the last year has really been about refining the basics, and tighter technique in making base, and cooking the curry. and better reproducability week on week. in other words technique. this is best learnt at home on your own. my biggest advice would be find a base and technique you are happy with, then stick to it, and tweak it each week. dont copy others, as they might not know as much as you assume. or there idea of perfection might be totally different to yours.

I think its ok to disagree so long as the parties concerned learn something from it.
The problem as I see it is not enough people trying enough things and providing feedback on said learning. There is also not enough going on in the backroom as regards studying spices. 4000 + years many recipes were concocted and we are trying to emulate in our lifetime but it is not impossible.

Of course if there were enough openness on behalf of restaurant owners they could save a lot of people a lot of grief. Something DD said on this thread rang a chord. To the measure of, If you cook something you like that the restaurants don't do and you prefer it?" Yeah that happens with me.

The important thing however is that we are working with a blank parchment, largely working from what people find out, what we see, what we learn through mistakes and all the while in perfect time the TA puts prices up.

At the end of the day there is nothing more complex than your bank account regardless of what you want to eat? But I think its really sad someone will not provide the book that we all know exists.

i like the idea of starting with a base, we need a cast iron genuine starting point to then build our curry on top of. Perhaps we even have good authentic bases here just our lack of knowledge of how to turn that base into a curry tends to make many try a new one then another new one when all the time they had the correct starting point to work with.

Maybe we should all just agree on a base, have a full blown discussion and gather all resources and knowledge, then if everyone kept strictly to this base then we can then work towards creating a curry.

Its all the chopping and changing of which im as guilty of as the rest that is realy curtailing progress. Its difficult to try replicating something when your changing the starting position, you might have had at one time the right base, one that would bring that desired final product but then used the wrong main recipe or vis-versa.

I think we need to take up this challenge as CA started this thread for, back to basics, start with getting a correct base and then everyone sticking to it strictly, then we will find the curry recipe from that.


great thread

Quote from: jimmy2x on February 16, 2010, 10:03 PM
I think we need to take up this challenge as CA started this thread for

I suggest the main reason CA started this thread was start a lively discussion on anything that came into his head, to help maintain interest in this forum. It's already at 8 pages and 800+ views so it's worked at a superficial level. Whether this thread will lead to an improvement in anyone's curry making skills is a different question, and I doubt if it will. This thread supports my point about the danger of a 'talking shop' that's all about going round in circles, whilst making very little real progress.

Quote from: jimmy2x on February 16, 2010, 10:03 PM
I think we need to take up this challenge as CA started this thread for, back to basics, start with getting a correct base and then everyone sticking to it strictly, then we will find the curry recipe from that.

I have never suggested that we all use the same base, the same ingredients and/or the same technique Jimmy (and anyone else who thinks I have). 

All I've suggested is to try and replicate the SIMPLEST curries from your favourite BIR using (and refining) your own base, your own ingredients and your own technique.

The crux of what I have proposed is to use the SIMPLEST curries (i.e. a plain meat or chicken curry) for the comparison rather than more complex curries (e.g. a madras, vindaloo, jalfrezi, korma, etc), even though these may be your favourites, where the additional complexity masks the basic tastes and smells.

I have never proposed it to be a joint/team effort.  I've proposed it as a personal yardstick to give a true measure of how well we can each truly replicate curries from our favourite BIR.  From that comparison we should each be better able to identify the differences and the reasons for them (cos the curries are SIMPLE!).

Quote from: George on February 16, 2010, 11:41 PM
I suggest the main reason CA started this thread was start a lively discussion on anything that came into his head

The main reason I started this thread was because I am fed up with people saying that a madras (in particular) is a "benchmark" curry.  I firmly believe that it's not an appropriate benchmark for the reasons I've given.

Quote
...to help maintain interest in this forum

Surely not a bad thing George?

Quote
so it's worked at a superficial level.  Whether this thread will lead to an improvement in anyone's curry making skills is a different question, and I doubt if it will

Why at a superficial level?  If it gives people pause for thought, whether they agree with the proposal or not, it should help?

Quote
This thread supports my point about the danger of a 'talking shop' that's all about going round in circles, whilst making very little real progress.

It is a TALK forum George.  What is "the danger"? 

The only thing it illustrates to me is that, by and large, we can't agree on anything, not even the simplest thing!  I wouldn't anyway see that as "a danger".

The only "danger" I see is where individuals (including me) put things forward as fact (when they are not) and other people (beginner's in particular) believe them and adopt them accordingly.

I readily agree about going around in circles....where are the the BIR chefs and the real BIR kitchen visits and reports??