hi,

are you using the method as done on the fatima dhansak video?

if so i just wonder if you are adding your ingredients in the wrong order, in the video the chef puts in his tomato paste first followed by salt and the rest of the spices. the sugar goes in last and then immediately goes back on the gas. (i think that if you fry sugar in oil on its own it will just go crispy and hard which is nasty)

he gives it a few stirs then leaves it a few seconds to start caramelising. after this he adds hot base (i think that this is important because you don't want to lower the temperature of the caramalising sugar too much when it has started)

if you get the caramalisation happening ok then it should all come together ok. the chef is using a mental hot burner without any trouble and i've made this on my inferior gas hob as well (yum except a bit too much sugar for me)

Quote from: JerryM on August 25, 2009, 10:02 AM
i've no experience of using sugar like this - u need Secret Santa's or George's help on Korma.

I've no experience (yet) either! I think I'm going to try the CTM (video) recipe first, given the positive feedback from at least one member here. As for dry-frying sugar on very high heat, I would have expected it to stick but if the BIRs do it, then it must work. It would also fit with the elusive 'toffee/caramel' flavour which I've noticed in many BIR kormas over the years. I remain hopeful that the reporting of this dry frying sugar/coconut technique remains a real breakthrough, not previously mentioned or discussed here before, as far as I'm aware, i.e. curryholic got there first with his videos on youtube.

I dont necessarily mean that the sugar is fried first, although it is added to the pan first along with coconut powder in the korma video (which is the only recipe that I can get to taste good).

In the dhansak video, and from watching a webcam that is set up in a takeaway kitchen http://www.easttakeaway.co.uk/webcam.php , most dishes start with oil, tomato paste (is this the same as pasata?), mix powder, chili powder and sugar. This creates a mushy mixture and is flash fried before the base is added.

It seems strange to me why dry ingredients are added first especially with such a big flame, and yet it never seems to stick or form bits of skin.

I can also confirm that after getting a sample of real base gravy from my local takeaway, all the ones I have been making taste completely wrong.
I tried frying a spoonful of the real base and it was like a magic reaction happened, I got that restaurant smell just from the base so I think the biggest priority is to get the base right.

Hi pg89,

You said in your first post you would be happy with a madras. Why not forget the sugar idea for now and concentrate on a madras recipe, either from this site or the other one you got your melting base 3 recipe from.

There are several "proven" base recipes on this forum together with final madras recipes. I can knock out curries better than my local takeaway now but my local TA is crap to be honest and I can't beat a good TA or restaurant.

PS: You couldn't get the recipe for the real base you obtained, could you?

Quote from: pg89 on August 26, 2009, 10:47 AM
most dishes start with oil, tomato paste (is this the same as pasata?), mix powder, chili powder and sugar

I think you'll find it's salt, not sugar, that is added at this stage pg89 (for most curries).

Quote
It seems strange to me why dry ingredients are added first especially with such a big flame

To get the flavour from the spices

Quote from: pg89 on August 23, 2009, 06:24 PM
I am trying to replicate a BIR Dhansak or Madras (or any main dish really!), but...the end result tastes disgusting..when I fry sugar...the end result always smells and tastes the same. Bland, watery (even though the consistency is right), burnt and flavourless.

Pg89,

I think this base is pretty ordinary and normal (maybe apart from the creamed coconut).  You should be able to get a decent tasting curry from it.

Stop trying to fry sugar!  I think you will find that, for most curries, it is salt that is added during the frying stage!

If the final curry lacks flavour, try frying more spices and add less base.  You should be able to get a decent tasting curry without using any base! 

Try adding some Pataks (or similar) pastes with the spice mix (e.g. a teaspoon of Patak's Madras paste).  Or try adding proprietary curry powder.

Make sure your other spices are fresh!  Grind whole spices if necessary (e.g. coriander and cumin)

Try adding more spice than recipies suggest (e.g. 2 or three teaspoons a single serving)

Try sprinkling a little garam masala (e.g. 0.5 teaspoons) over the curry just before the end of cooking

Try adding a little (e.g. 0.5 teaspoon) of tandoori masala to the spice mixture.

Make sure you don't burn the onions, garlic, ginger or spices!

Try adding sugar (and/or salt) towards the end of cooking to "lift" the flavours.

Perhaps tell us EXACTLY what you are doing and we won't have to second guess!

Quote from: pg89 on August 26, 2009, 10:47 AM
tomato paste (is this the same as pasata?)

it's very different.

tomato paste in at spice frying stage. i also water it down (~2:1 water to paste) https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2968.0

passata in after base. not needed in most recipes but in a few it's crucial for me ie madras.