there seems to be 3 things missing (30 percent !!). 1) a tangy acidic burnt flavor 2) a turnipy onion soup flavor, 3) toffee flavor. i wonder if 1) is from garlic cooked high heat on proper gas cooker??. i only have electric cooker

real assistance from real bir chefs is the most logical answer. bouncing ideas off them  might reveal some new leads. there has been no real bir input since ashoka.

Quote from: Derek Dansak on May 11, 2009, 06:57 PM
Hi Sns, i appriciate your help, however the basic BE style madras recipe with safron style base does not taste anywhhere near a true bir madras. i have tried hundreds of techniques and tweaks and varied bases, and nothing comes near my locals divine madras.

Perhaps it is your 'local's divine Madras' that is unique? After all, what is a 'true BIR Madras'?

Having tried many Madras's from many restaurants and TA's over many a few years, I know I can produce a Madras equal to or better than many of them : (using the SnS June 2008 Base).

There are of course a few exceptional restaurants where their 'special' (and probably unique) methods/ingredients also produce a 'divine' tasting Madras which I cannot match, although it is questionable to whether this is really a 'Madras' in it's 'original' BIR form (whatever that may be?). 

Some Madras dishes (and others) I've tasted from BIR's in the 70's 80's 90's and 00's have been really crap, despite coming from well established BIR premises  - so it would appear that there are many versions of this dish - as there are for all other curry dishes.

Even Indian recipe books will have large discrepancies in the ingredients/methods used to make a particular dish and subsequently the resultant tastes will differ - despite being classed as the same!

This may be due to regional differences or simply the chef's/author's preference, I don't know ... but they are different.

If all recipes/methods were the same, we would only need to buy one Indian cookbook and use just one Indian restaurant!

The same goes for BIR - one chef's version of a curry will be different to another. There is no 'Generic' recipe (unlike MacDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut, etc ..)

Nowadays, who is really qualified to say what is a pucker Madras or what is not? We can only aim to reproduce what is essentially meeting with our own particular taste preferences.

The fact that a Madras cannot be produced with the same taste/smell/colour/texture to your local Madras (or anyone else's local), does not mean that the recipes/methods used are wrong - just different.

Regards
SnS  ;D

very true sns. i have tried 5 or more traditional madras recipies from varied trad indian cookery books. all are nice in there own way. some have cocunut, some dont. some have tamerind, or star anise some dont. i will make your base as it looks good. its so similar to a base i have developed myself that i already know its good and bad points. i only buy ta's from the best bir, else i feel ripped off. so i am probably a bit too critical of my own madras. i am sure  mine is better than most standard bir madras. especially when i have fresh base, and fresh chicken stock etc + reclaimed oil. 

Quote from: Derek Dansak on May 12, 2009, 05:01 PM
............ fresh chicken stock etc + reclaimed oil. 

Oh no - not another reclaimed oil merchant  ;D : ... but that's another topic ..

lol, actually i am too lazy to be a re claimed oil mercahnt ! i dont think its that important, but can be a quick boost to flavor if you have some available. my local bir ta thinks its not useful at all.

while i am here  anyone know how to get that smokey burnt flavor.

Only joking ...  from discussing this with some older BIR chefs, back in the 70's (good old days), I gather they used to reclaim the oil from the base gravy.

However, the stock was made up using cheap old broilers (ex-egglaying hens) with the addition of extra oils (fat).

Quote from: Derek Dansak on May 12, 2009, 05:34 PM
while i am here  anyone know how to get that smokey burnt flavor.

Chipotle paste 

good reading for sure.

i'd been giving the subject some thought today (waiting for paint to dry - really).

i think i've answered my own need - technique (CA is right on another one for me).

i feel i've got all the pieces of the jigsaw - the trouble is they don't always fit exactly as they should. why?.

i made CK's madras last night it turned out the best curry i've made to date. i then made my own version of madras but it turned out below my norm and appeared worse than CK's. this just could not be true so i made another portion of CK's - yep worse than mine but importantly very different to the 1st one i'd made and now where near as good.

i always set out to cook in exactly the same manner. i measure all the powders in advance and try to get all the pastes the same by sight. i now know my stove is at the same temp each time. so why the hit and miss - it's got to be technique.

i don't feel anyone can help as i can't pinpoint myself where or what is changing - it's just something i will have to practise at. what i do know is when my garage is smoking after cooking the curry will hit the mark.