here's hoping on this.

i've adapted Georges post below (original here https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3095.msg31286#msg31286)

The myths document and the related discussion thread helps get u started - probably the 1st 95%.

It a list of best guesses, hunches or whatever on possible myths.

It's not a done deal as it appears difficult to get passed the 95% mark ie close the last 5% gap.

Ingredients and approaches can not be definitely written off.

The question is how do we collectively close this gap.

One leg/option would be :

More emphasis on tried and tested recipes (i.e. on what works for sure) rather than lists of what doesn't work (e.g. ingredients in isolation) and long lists of work in progress, interim reports, minute by minute diaries, etc. e.g. we can't say whether it's best to brown the onions as a generalisation or whether almond powder should ever be used. It all depends on the specific recipe.

What does everyone think on the way fwd.

anyone tried citric acid. they sell it in indian grocers. could be useful?

missing 5 percent? umm i feel its a missing 30 percent. there is so much taste and smell in a real bir madras that i cant account for. i dont get any of those bir smells coming from my kitchen. lets hope we get some break throughs this year. i am busy trying out new spice combinations.

Quote from: Derek Dansak on May 11, 2009, 12:24 PM
missing 5 percent? umm i feel its a missing 30 percent. there is so much taste and smell in a real bir madras that i cant account for. i dont get any of those bir smells coming from my kitchen. lets hope we get some break throughs this year. i am busy trying out new spice combinations.

Hi Derek

If you really think you are always 30%  off the BIR taste on a Madras, I guess you're probably either consistentally using wrong or inferior brand ingredients (or perhaps old spices), or you need to analyse/revise/practise your cooking methods ....

Which bases with which Madras recipes have you tried so far?

Regards
SnS 

Quote from: JerryM on May 06, 2009, 08:13 AMThe question is how do we collectively close this gap. What does everyone think on the way fwd.

My suggestion is to focus on individual dishes, notably chicken madras, perhaps, rather than make blanket statements which might appear to rule individual ingredients or techniques in or out of the whole kitchen.

I still reckon we need a get-together to 'calibrate' our efforts, including a few curries from a good BIR as a sort of reference point for tasting. Then, at least we'd get a rough idea of whether we're all talking about anything like the same differences or shortcomings. We might even think that some people are on a different planet, and that their views could be disregarded!

Hi Sns, i appriciate your help, however the basic BE style madras recipe with safron style base does not taste anywhhere near a true bir madras. i have tried hundreds of techniques and tweaks and varied bases, and nothing comes near my locals divine madras.  i think its naive to think you can join this site make safron base, add some spice mix, chilly garlic paste (etc etc) and practice your technique over 6 months and it will = true bir madras. why should it, when its essentailly a method which we all know does not work. else we wouldnt be having this debate now. this forum is great at creating an acceptable mid week bir style curry. but when i buy the real thing and see and smell it being cooked in the bir kitchen, i realise its a lot more than 5 percent thats missing. its probably years of skills those head chefs are using to get that taste. a closely guarded secret it seems. anyway the exact percentage is not important is it sns? we all agree that something is missing.

Quote from: Derek Dansak on May 11, 2009, 06:57 PMi realise its a lot more than 5 percent thats missing. its probably years of skills those head chefs are using to get that taste

I don't doubt there's still room for improvement but I simply don't buy the argument that it takes years of experience to cook a great BIR curry. If we ever get an accurate recipe for a first class dish, then I'm sure any of us could recreate it any time we want.

I'm in total agreement with DD's post above. I never have, and I doubt I ever will replicate the BIR curries of old. I also agree with George's post, this talk about needing years of experience just doesn't hold water. If you watch the videos from maliks and East live takeaways, there's nothing there that I/we can't do, and indeed are already doing.

Technique and years of learning aren't the secret, it's all about the ingredients.

Quote from: Secret Santa on May 11, 2009, 10:09 PMI doubt I ever will replicate the BIR curries of old.

I'm confident you could, at the very first attempt if given an accurate recipe from that era, with ingredients and method stated to a similar level of accuracy as found in, say, a Delia Smith cook book. There's no doubt in my mind that most of us could 'deliver' if simply given a good recipe.

Quote from: George on May 11, 2009, 01:24 PM

My suggestion is to focus on individual dishes, notably chicken madras, perhaps, rather than make blanket statements which might appear to rule individual ingredients or techniques in or out of the whole kitchen.

i certainly don't want us all arguing on this one - there is a gap and likely quite a variation across members. i think it best just to focus on the above suggestion.

is anyone interested on giving it a go. i'm certainly in and would welcome George's thoughts on how we go about it.

i'd add that i made CK's madras last night and it was very very close. and my bland statement i feel is something we need to address as "very very close" is the best i can do in terms of description but at the same time pretty much meaningless to others. we need some kind of barometer perhaps.