After a year of attempting to make the perfect curry i can make some very tasty savoury style curries. however they lack that sweetness BIR curries all have. I thought it would be interesting to share ideas on things which could contribute to that sweet toffee like taste. Here are some ideas i have. I would be intersted to hear any suggestions from you guys though.  I believe the following may contribute to that sweet taste:  Fennel, lemmon, star anise, use of a 15 garlic base sauce highly cooked until brown (no celery, carrot, green pepper in base), use of plenty of ghee, cream. Can anyone add to this list and advise me on other ingredients i might include, or techniques to get that sweet toffee like taste. Anyone tried amchoor mango powder? or evaporated milk? What effects do these have? Cheers   

Hi Derek

The ambchoor won't add sweetness (4 x more sour than lemon juice)

Anardana - ground pomegranate seeds (adds sweeteness and sourness)

I now use mango chutney to sweeten my curry (thanks to Domi).

I believe using some carrot in the base also contributes to that sweet BIR taste.

SnS 

I think it's all about the onions and tomato - though I do agree that the green pepper in the base savouries things right up. I prefer to use fresh tomato in my base as I think the tinned ones give a less sweet result. I once read somewhere that your onions should add the sweetness and your tomatoes should add the tartness to the base. I'm not quite sure just how true this is but I try to bear it in mind when cooking mine.

Here's a previous article that I feel is relevant to this thread, in which getting your onions nice and sweet is discussed. https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2491.0.html

Quote from: Derek Dansak on April 29, 2008, 11:39 AM
After a year of attempting to make the perfect curry i can make some very tasty savoury style curries. however they lack that sweetness BIR curries all have. I thought it would be interesting to share ideas on things which could contribute to that sweet toffee like taste

Interesting question Derek, I know what you mean.  Main contributors (in my opinion):

SUGAR!
WELL COOKED (BROILED) ONIONS (to release their sugar)!
HEAT (lots of it)!
A WELL USED PAN!

Quote from: derek
Fennel, lemmon, star anise, use of a 15 garlic base sauce highly cooked until brown (no celery, carrot, green pepper in base), use of plenty of ghee, cream. Can anyone add to this list and advise me on other ingredients i might include, or techniques to get that sweet toffee like taste. Anyone tried amchoor mango powder? or evaporated milk? What effects do these have? Cheers   

Fennel and star anise - no ("warm")
Lemon - definitely no!  (sour!)
Garlic - doubt it (smokey maybe)
Celery - doubt it (savoury)
Carrot - yes!
Green pepper - possibly
Ghee - maybe, in the main curry but probably not added to the base
Cream and evaporated milk - yes, sweet, but probably not in the base and not in many curries other than korma and CTM
Amchoor powder - no (primarily sour)
Anardana - doubt it
Chutney - sweet, but seriously don't think so (not in a BIR)

My opinion only of course.

Thanks for the advice guys. I think i will try the pomegranite seeds on saturday, along with the tips on onion cooking. (saturday now = curry gravy day!) I need a bigger freezer for all these different gravies i keep churning out. Since finding this site i have turned into a curry machine! once again thanks for the tips. Whats the appropriate amount of pomegranite seeds to add for a single portion size batch of chicken (a BIR silver trays worth!) if thats clearer  ;D

After some experimenting recently i believe to release the full sweetness of the onions they need to be boiled in Veg Oil for around 40 Min's at a high heat, this will virtually caramelise them bringing out the natural sweetness and depth we are looking for in our base.

I am convinced if you do this first then add the other ingredients into your base sauce.  Water or stock, Tomatoes, pepper garlic, ginger and spice mix this might just give you the base your looking for.

I Will check this out at some stage an report back.
I am thinking 4 large onion in 750ml of oil should do the trick.

Stew

... and of course fresh coriander.

Quote from: Tamala on April 29, 2008, 01:27 PM
Chutney - sweet, but seriously don't think so (not in a BIR)

I believe this is used in BIR to add sweetness, but I gather it may also be a regional thing. I know from previous posts that it is used in BIR Pathia's around Yorkshire area. This has been confirmed.

SnS 

Quote from: Admin on April 29, 2008, 03:42 PM
After some experimenting recently i believe to release the full sweetness of the onions they need to be boiled in Veg Oil for around 40 Min's

I'm right there Stew. I'm not sure about high heat, I've only ever done it gently so as not to brown them but just getting a few large quality onions in there with a load of oil and cooking them until translucent really turns out good bases. I think the cooking times help bring out the sweetness of the onions and the tartness of the tomato that I mentioned earlier. Incidentally I add my spices at this stage too to help them release all their spiciness!!! ;D

Derek,

this is a seriously good question (my No1 also).

i've ended up adding sugar to my spice mix and effectively frying it - it?s a decent sticking plaster but i'm sure it's not legit. i tried adding after the base but i just get a sickly sweet not the type we're after.

i'm undecided about onions. i make rajver, saffron and ifindforu bases which just bung the onions in the pan. i tried currytesters base which really fries the onions and carrot - it did not give a significant difference (albeit the ghee was too prominent - base is still in development and a possible glimmer). i slow fry onions for "burger" bbq and i don't believe i can get any more sweetness out by caramelising and it's still not enough to bridge the BIR gap so i'm sceptical about the effect of frying in the base.

the mango chutney is something i'd not thought of and sounds promising as a sticking plaster as i'm sure it too is not legit. the rest of the listed items aren?t going to do it. there important in there own right but not what we're after.

i'm on TA tomorrow night and will ponder while i enjoy (special garlic chicken). it's why we live!  ;D