So typical of you, Phil - you can't even just say 'see above' once!
The attitude of you and Livo are bound to put newcomers to the site off. Why would anyone want to post on a site where they are spoken down to by you two?
Livo hasn't even tasted BIR and you hark back to the 60's or something.
If you want to attract debate and new members, keep it buttoned.