New member here but I've been making BIR and desi style curries for quite a few years, as well as being a bit of an amateur chef. It's a pleasure to join this site and I'm happy to share my experience and recipes - some of which I have acquired from a local 'upmarket' restaurant in my home town.

I just wanted to chat about base gravies, and ask what people's thoughts were:

I'm always a bit confused by the separation of spice like paprika and turmeric from the initial stewing process - I'm of the understanding that incorporating the spices early on will at best infuse the flavours better, at worst do nothing - particularly when using a pressure cooker method.  There are one or two culinary herbs and spices that benefit from being incorporated before serving but in a process like this with robust spices like turmeric, paprika, cumin and coriander I feel that cooking them as long as possible will be better for melding the flavours.

On a similar note tomatoes are invariably used in most base gravies, but often seem to be added as a separate 'dump' at the end of the stewing process (usually with the spices). Any Italian will tell you that there is no harm in stewing  tomatoes for as long as possible, so this (again) confuses me a bit.

I have tried a few bases online and through various tests I was unable to see any advantage to not just putting everything into the pan at once. This is not to undermine any restaurants who do it, or any users on here who do; but I would be interested to know what people think this is doing. It seems like a means of taking more time than you need to take. I could understand if people were caramelising the onions or roasting the spices to increase the 'umami' taste but this is rarely the case

I am not meaning to seem condescending or disrespectful to users here; I would just like some other people's take on this.

Many thanks

Hi DD, welcome to you and may i say thats a cool first post, I think layers of taste are great in a base gravy with regard to tomatoes i cook em until they bubble like volcanoes and separate from the oil, as a learning curve i also remember adding more base to that couldron that  wasnt heated, makes me cringe now but we all have to learn , being here is a great way to do that.

Welcome DD and thanks for raising a good point.

Quote from: mickyp on April 16, 2019, 04:12 PM
with regard to tomatoes i cook em until they bubble like volcanoes and separate from the oil

I also do my tomatoes like this (with turmeric and paprika) then add to the boiled onion/ginger/garlic mixture. Once it is blended I will add cumin, coriander, ground fenugreek and a little garam masala, and simmer for 15 minutes.

Whether it would make any difference just boiling it all up together, I don't know, but I doubt that any difference would be significant.

Fenugreek, for me, is the essence of BIR, which is why I include it in my base

Pressure cooker base gravy is often all in and close the lid.  I've tried "all in" V "multi-stage" gravies and many in between.  They are different in some ways and the same in others.  Find what suites your cooking style, how much time you want to spend cooking and go with it. There is no right or wrong, just different.  The sameness is that you end up making curry.

Garp +1 for fenugreek being a requirement (but not necessarily in every dish).

Thanks for the feedback. This seems like a very friendly and honest forum so I'm glad to have joined.

I'm an experimental character and my conclusion at this point (subject to change) is that there is an advantage to keeping a base gravy as simple as possible. I will share my current base gravy in a separate topic, but suffice to say I'm a big fan of using a very simple base gravy as a means of achieving the classic caramalised onion/oil foundation for every curry - the foundation that creates that distinctive BIR taste -  and adding the additional layers of flavour at the cooking stage.

I don't personally think that giving a base gravy a lot of character is necessarily beneficial in terms of adaptability and the overall end result, but one thing I will say is that there is no right or wrong in such a diverse cooking style. BIR cooking is great fun, and this whole subtopic of base gravies reminds me of Texan chilli cook-offs, where there is a constant hunt for the 'magic' touch. It's great fun.

Quote from: Garp on April 16, 2019, 09:28 PMFenugreek, for me, is the essence of BIR, which is why I include it in my base

Quote from: livo on April 17, 2019, 02:27 AMGarp +1 for fenugreek being a requirement (but not necessarily in every dish).

Can you both clarify whether you mean the leaf (kasoori methi) or the seed?

Quote from: digital donkey on April 17, 2019, 10:20 AMmy conclusion at this point (subject to change) is that there is an advantage to keeping a base gravy as simple as possible.

I agree. My onion, salt, oil base makes excellent curries when the curry making stage is adjusted to suit and is far better for producing curries that taste different from one another.

Quote...a means of achieving the classic caramalised onion/oil foundation for every curry - the foundation that creates that distinctive BIR taste

Hmmm, I don't agree with that. Almost no BIR base has caramelised onions. BIR bases are almost universally boiled. And a long boil is required to bring out the natural sweetness of the onions. Also this is why the tomatoes are cooked separately from the boiled onion base because the acidity of the tomatoes, depending on quantity, kills or significantly reduces the reaction required for the sweetness.

Sorry, just to clarify: I didn't mean the use of caramelized onions in the recipe; I meant that the high volume of oil and the intensive heat in the pan caramelizes the onions in the base gravy during the curry-making process, and creates that distinctive BIR taste. I'm not convinced that the acidity of the tomato would kill the sweetness of the onions at the initial stage. This doesn't really fit in with my understanding of cooking with tomatoes in traditional recipes in other sorts of cuisine. Happy to be taught a lesson on this though!

Quote from: Secret Santa on April 17, 2019, 02:32 PM
Can you both clarify whether you mean the leaf (kasoori methi) or the seed?

Ground seeds in base.

Ditto. Fenugreek seeds is what I was referring to as well.