i know of 3 forms of madras across BIR land.

no1 is rubbish stuff. it's simply base and some chilli powder. it's like a vegetable curry sauce with the veg taken out.

no2 i've made for long time using Secret Santa chilli sauce. it's sort of red and tomatoey garlicky. my local TA make it and it really hits the spot.

no3 is much more difficult to take stock off. you might call it old style. the restaurant(s) that i use has made it exactly the same (or seems that way) since something like 82. i used to think of it as brown madras but it's actually red. very little tomato and garlic. very different to no2.

for a long time i felt the no3 was impossible to create and consequently never tried. recently i've had a little help and started to get quite close.

this is how i have it. i really want to get a "sauce" similar to the Secret Santa version for No2. this for ease of making.

these are the ingredients as i think they are:

oil
garlic - very little
tom puree - very little
chilli powder - a good bit
mix pwdr - norm
base - see below
squat green chilli - fine chopped
sultana - blended hence the need for sauce
fresh coriander - very fine chopped
lemon dressing

the texture of the dish had always got me beat. chilli head and natterjak have in the past talked of say "mashing" base as opposed to blending. it turns out this is what's needed. trouble is it's a right pain and although fits the texture or look the taste is not changed. in short i think i'm sticking to blended but not sure.

the main area of interest is the ingredients. if anyone who knows the "brown" madras can add their thoughts it would be much appreciated.

i'll get pic on next TA.

Hi Jerry I don't know that the brown version is served locally to me though I think I can picture it. My very first curry in a BIR was a Madras (I was brave no?) and it would have been about 1980/81 and yes it was definitely brown. Your no 3 recipe differ from my Madras (of which I made 5 portions last night as my band mates are coming for an Indian buffet tomorrow evening) in three ways. I don't have sultana or fresh chilli. The latter I can guess provide some nice chilli flavour and heat but am unsure what the sultanas do - is it a sour note in the same way that other recipes have mentioned Worcester Sauce? I add more tomato puree and use lemon juice instead of dressing. I can see how your recipe will produce a less red and more brown curry. I've just checked by 5 portion Madras and the colour is definitely reddy brown.

I know from your previous posts that you are very methodical in your approach to recipe construction so look forward to seeing how you take this.

Stephen,

well pleased you're doing well on the curries which is obvious from you're posts (i always aim to read).

have you a link to the recipe you're using.

i had used the longish green chilli in the past with the squat green being used as garnish only ie thin slices across the chilli. by fine chopping the squat chilli and adding after the base it's taste seems to spread across the sauce. i don't see it being added for heat which at the moment i'm getting just from the chilli powder. vindaloo would be different (lip burn).

the sultana gives a taste i can't describe. i 1st used it "cooked" in adovada and felt it resembled the taste of the restaurant madras. a sanity search pulled up chewytikka's chutney (https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,6116.0.html). this is the basis of my thoughts. no vinegar though.

paprika in the mix powder is a further factor as the BIR version has a hint of "bluish" in the restaurant due to the lights which give it away. i know it sounds mad but the inclusion of paprika seems to fit the bill.

i'm still a good way off matching the taste - hence the post to gather any pointers that have not yet dawned on me.

next up is to try out the common (say asda sultana) and the Asian store offerings of golden and green.

best wishes

the golden sultana is off the list. been tasting it all week and comparing to the common "dark" version which now under closer view seems a bit of a mix albeit mostly the darker variety.

the golden sulatana are very nice - clearly the top of the tree. cakes and such like would work a treat - not for curry.

got a few golden to get through then onto the green.

have had enough of both the golden and green sultana - both are for curry - naff

the common dark sultana being adopted.

next going to start working on the paste/sauce. not going to be easy given so many variable and only knowing the finished curry taste i'm after.

recipe as is in case of any thougths

have parked the chilli sauce for the moment - quicker and easier to add ingredient direct.

feel i'm getting pretty close having taken the recent learning from dried kashmiri, kashmirir chilli powder and sugar.

feel it needs more sultana and the tom puree tweaking

Rev2 recipe (additions/changes)
4 off dry red Kashmiri rehydrated
0.5 bullet chilli
1 Htbsp Kashmiri pwdr
1 Htbsp sultana fine chopped
Tip tsp tamarind
Tomato qtr 2 off
Sugar 0.5 tsp

Rev 1
1a) oil 1 chef
1b) Little garlic puree 0.5 tsp
2a) Little tom puree 0.5 tsp (to try c/w 1 tbsp plus 3 tbsp water)
2b) chilli powder 2 tsp
2c) mix pwdr 1 tsp
3a) base 300 ml
3b) green squat chilli ~ 1/3rd
3c) sultana ~ 1 tbsp in water
4a) very fine f.coriander ~1 tbsp (4 finger and thumb pinch)
4b) Lemon dressing

Thanks to whoever started this topic,  the timing could not have been better !

Made a new base last night. Its a variant of my own personal base with a few major tweaks !

tasted it this morning and its promising

Still not made a curry with it though.

However this thread has some useful new ideas in it !   Nice one !