i tasted a BIR base from my local TA some years ago. it tasted really very delux. the chef said it was only a method of adding water to the curry. the boss said it was the secret to curry.

i ice cubed the sample and copied it but never really thought more about it until recently. except of course for the oil which i still have not got close to (this is not a key factor though)

recently a good friend of mine (curry fan who also lives in warrington) brought about a tasting at my local restaurant. the difference in base was very stark. it was very much like a KD1 base - sort of nothing in it other than onion.

the TA base on the other hand was very delux - what i would call well crafted.

i would of expected based on the food quality - the bases to be the other way round ie the restaurant with the better base and the TA with the "cheeper" base.

Not so.

i'm still trying to get a copy cat of the restaurant base but feel i'm quite close ie confident it's not really that different to KD1.

It puts the cat among the pigeons for me - what to take from it and what to do differently.

this is the old link to the TA sample which someone might be able to make work:

http://cr0.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2368.msg26329#msg26329

(ps i've tried https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2368)

I think it makes sense Jerry. The restaurant should be knocking out better, more differentiated curries and a simple base which can be built on at the curry cooking stage lends itself to that.

The takeaway on the other hand wants to just bang 'em out quick sharp so it uses a more 'complete' base and it's curries will, as a consequence, probably suffer from a degree of sameness as you often find, especially nowadays.

Are there any curry bases on the forum which compare to these two?

Secret Santa,

real good analysis. had not thought of it that way.

the TA base copy is the posted, "my take" (link https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,3462.0.html)

i make it most (usually just need to get a carrot as i have the rest to hand).

the restaurant base really is a KD1. i don't know of any other site base that is close to it.

this is the current recipe albeit under test so to speak. it's not blended but mashed. the coriander root needs chopping as otherwise it does not mash well. i add all and cook slowly (my method of choice). it's something i need to check as recently i'd switched to cooking "hard veg" 1st followed by soft ingredients followed by spice.

Hi Jerry,

I'm not sure I can add much to the base gravy discussion, as you are much more scientific and analytical than I.  Looking forward to another visit to the restaurant.  I think it's a key point that they use what we agreed are 'secondary' bases/pastes for specific dishes (I was surprised too), so the primary base is unsurprisingly simple and pretty much just onions.  So, the secret lies in the 'secondary' bases/pastes for the restaurant.

Richard,

well pleased you've found CRO.

for sure the "secondary bases/pastes/sauces" are key to using the "onion" only base. what and how remains unknown - hence my difficulty or questioning of how it fits with what is already known.

i think for me it puts a line under my understanding of a base threshold ie once a base fits a certain criteria then its good to go so to speak. any subsequent actions or ingredients having a far greater impact on the final dish.

i suppose in short: no point searching for the holly grail of base - it has no real bearing on achieving BIR.

for me personally in pursuit of Best BIR i can't believe the onion base plus "secondary bases/pastes/sauces" will beat my current what i feel top notch bases. time will tell.

interesting stuff.

only of slight interest.

had meal at the same local restaurant in the week and surprise surprise the texture of the finished curry was not the sort of "lumpy" impression of norm.

it was clear to me having already carried out several variations on the simple base - the restaurant base on this occasion had been blended. presumable down to being pushed for time or running out in service.

the taste was exactly the same.

in short - mashing c/w blending only makes the curry look better.

Jerry I don't know if this is the kind of thing you are referring to but I always remember being stunned byt the first few posts from masala mark based in Australia. This really was about different gravies, horses for courses kind of thing rather than an all-in-one.

I've posted a link below but he has posted other recipes so they might be worth a look?

https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,4951.msg47457.html#msg47457

Quote from: rshome123 on June 03, 2014, 10:04 PM
Hi Jerry,

I'm not sure I can add much to the base gravy discussion, as you are much more scientific and analytical than I.  Looking forward to another visit to the restaurant.  I think it's a key point that they use what we agreed are 'secondary' bases/pastes for specific dishes (I was surprised too), so the primary base is unsurprisingly simple and pretty much just onions.  So, the secret lies in the 'secondary' bases/pastes for the restaurant.

I think you are right about the pastes! I was in my local takeaway, and the pans to be used for the next orders were above the cooker on a shelf.They were lent back against the wall, some had red paste in them,some yellow paste! Also I watched the chef has he stirred the Garabi, he did this a few times, and when he lifted the ladle out,there was a round thing in it. I'm pretty sure it was an onion, but could have been a spice ball?? This is my first post and not sure if I've done it correctly. Cheers Vinnyderloo

Stephen, vinnyderloo,

many thanks for link to masala mark. i'd forgotten about those posts. much appreciate the prompt - i now think i can get some mileage from it.

just to be clear NO DOUBT at all there are 2 methods of cooking in BIR. the main one (say no1) we are all aware of and which is what i've learnt and spent all my time on.

this 2nd method took me by surprise (it should not have done re Ashoka method which seems a sort of cross between the 2 or maybe is the 2 nd method) - a very simple base to which pastes/sauces/2nd base (call whatever it is = sauce) are added to make each dish. there are say 5 types of these sauces and they are either used individually or combined to produce the menu. the manager says they are purely used (as opposed to method 1) to produce the dishes quickly to meet service. i get the impression the sauce is made in real bulk - pure guess say 5L at a time. 

i'm currently trying to think how you would cook with method 2. these being on my mind:
1) would you still add oil then garlic ginger - or would the garlic ginger be in the sauce
2) would you still add the puree and spice and fry - or would this too be in the sauce

i suspect they simply add oil, then sauce, then base - in short they cooked down the sauce like you would normally cook down the garlic, puree, spice.

what's my interest - i sort of think if it's done for ease in BIR it may make home BIR easier too. the effort to make at home currently being my no1 difficulty.

will have read up on both masala mark and ashoka - which am sure will give the pointers i need.

Quote from: JerryM on June 22, 2014, 10:56 AMwill have read up on both masala mark and ashoka - which am sure will give the pointers i need.

Alex's Glasgow bases and recipes use the same technique Jerry so read those too. All the spice is essentially in the various precooked elements so making a basic curry is nothing more than base, meat (along with the cooking sauce), GG paste, tomato paste and chilli sauce. No added spice mix at all, well, apart from methi.