Curry Recipes Online

Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: George on March 03, 2011, 01:33 PM

Title: Most recipes don't work
Post by: George on March 03, 2011, 01:33 PM
I just came across a very true comment in the introduction to a Delia Smith book.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b1b6a2c656faf615fa6715ca52bc538a.jpg)

I agree with the two main points:

1. Delia's recipes do tend to produce good results
2. Other recipes might not.

How can this be? Are most other authors no better than con artists?
I'm afraid to say it may apply to many of the recipes 'published' here, as well.

I suggest we need some kind of 'peer group review' before any recipe is allowed to be posted here, perhaps with a graphic stamp as being 'tried and tested'. The implication might be that many/most other recipes are only to be tried at your own risk.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on March 03, 2011, 01:48 PM
I suggest we need some kind of 'peer group review' before any recipe is allowed to be posted here
And how exactly do you propose that these recipes be circulated for peer review, George, before they are allowed to soil this hallowed ground with their presence ?  Should we, perhaps, post them on one of the other BIR fora, and only post them here once they have been accorded the other forum's seal of approval ?  Or perhaps we could merely allude to their existence, without posting any details at all, and then circulate them via p.m. ...

** Phil.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: PaulP on March 03, 2011, 02:25 PM
I agree that there are some terrible recipes in circulation both at random on the internet and also some of them by so called celebrity chefs.

I don't agree with George's idea, however, because recipes in effect are reviewed by members on cr0. I won't normally be the first to try something new until I see some positive feedback from "trusted" cr0 members.

The only time I've been caught out cooking something from cr0 was emin-j's "tasty curry from scratch", which we had to bin due to far too much ginger. Looking back although that recipe had a few fans they were not in my "trusted" group.

I think things work ok as they are and the group tests are a useful addition to what we already have.

Paul



Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: solarsplace on March 03, 2011, 02:32 PM
... snip ... Looking back although that recipe had a few fans they were not in my "trusted" group.


Charming! - nice to know who your friends are  :'(

Not too much offence taken  ;)
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on March 03, 2011, 02:57 PM
[A]lthough that recipe had a few fans they were not in my "trusted" group.

Just as a point of interest, Paul, may I ask who are the members of your "trusted" group ?

** Phil.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: peterandjen on March 03, 2011, 03:01 PM
We are already testing the recipes on here, the group test's that all are invited to join in on are probably the best way of testing.
Slowly but surely if we keep it up, we'll make our way through the curries here and newbies will have a better chance of choosing a recipe that is good for them, due to our comments passed on the tests.
The only other way of doing it would be to do as phil said and have an uBer group of testers in a locked forum or via pm. Pretty scornfull way of doing things but if thats what floats your boat...
I like the openness of things here, i like the comraderie and sense of being a part  of something when i take part in a test. I like the fact that there are lots of recipes and we can pick and choose at random as to our tastes.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: PaulP on March 03, 2011, 03:43 PM
Lol, I'll get me coat!

I had to read all 8 pages of the "tasty curry from scratch" thread to see whom I might have offended. Sorry SP, I see you enjoyed it! Maybe your post tempted me to try it.
But I accept I could have screwed up cooking it for some reason.

No I don't have a fixed list of people who's taste buds I trust, it's just something that happens sub-consciously when you spend a lot of time on a forum.
No offence was intended.

Paul

Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: solarsplace on March 03, 2011, 04:46 PM
No probs :) - curry on...
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: emin-j on March 03, 2011, 05:00 PM
Lol, I'll get me coat!

I had to read all 8 pages of the "tasty curry from scratch" thread to see whom I might have offended. Sorry SP, I see you enjoyed it! Maybe your post tempted me to try it.
But I accept I could have screwed up cooking it for some reason.
No I don't have a fixed list of people who's taste buds I trust, it's just something that happens sub-consciously when you spend a lot of time on a forum.
No offence was intended.

Paul

Yes PaulP I think you did screw up on your cooking  >:( To say that you were " Caught Out " I think is a bit of an insult,  because Razor,myself, plus the others that have had success with the Curry don't happen to be any of your ' Trusted Few' makes it sound like we don't know what a good Curry should taste like !
It's your lack of Culinary skills in this instance I think you should be looking at  >:(
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Curry Barking Mad on March 03, 2011, 05:23 PM
Steady on troops,
don't turn on each other because George has started a divisive thread... ::)
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: PaulP on March 03, 2011, 05:26 PM
Apologies to you emin-j. What I posted came out sounding wrong. I would include yourself, Razor and Solarsplace on my "trusted list" which as I said is not really a list but a feel you get after a while on a forum. I'm happy to concede that I screwed up your recipe somehow.

I can't say more than sorry.

Paul
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: George on March 03, 2011, 06:05 PM
Apologies to you emin-j. What I posted came out sounding wrong. I would include yourself, Razor and Solarsplace on my "trusted list" which as I said is not really a list but a feel you get after a while on a forum. I'm happy to concede that I screwed up your recipe somehow.

The introduction of the word "trust" is interesting and quite true.

For a start, I don't trust recipes which are posted here without a grain of background, relevance, opinion or anything. Where's the sense in that? It's just quantity over quality. It's a shame if any of these offending recipes are actually any good. You'd think anyone posting could and should say so. Why else should we try these recipes? I think it's better that someone should admit a recipe was made and tipped straight in the bin, rather than just being polite, or keeping quiet.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on March 03, 2011, 06:12 PM
I don't trust recipes which are posted here without a grain of background, relevance, opinion or anything.

I don't think anyone is inviting you to "trust" a recipe they post, George, unless they accompany it with a statement such as "I have cooked this for friends on many occasions, and they have invariably said it is the best example of <whatever> they have ever tasted.".  What they are usually inviting you to do is to try the recipe for yourself, and then to contribute constructive criticism.  I wonder if you have considered it in that light ?

** Phil.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Les on March 03, 2011, 06:31 PM
Being quite New here. Does that mean I can't trust any of you, and not try any of the recipes, ;D Until I make some Pen Friends ::)

HS
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: George on March 03, 2011, 06:48 PM
I don't think anyone is inviting you to "trust" a recipe they post, George, unless they accompany it with a statement such as "I have cooked this for friends on many occasions, and they have invariably said it is the best example of <whatever> they have ever tasted.".  What they are usually inviting you to do is to try the recipe for yourself, and then to contribute constructive criticism.  I wonder if you have considered it in that light ?

Yes, you're right - that's pretty much my thinking, i.e. either (a) they give some honest statement like your example above, or like Blade did for his chicken tikka, or (b) the OP of a recipe moves into the distrusted category. There aren't enough hours in a day to try more than a small fraction of all the recipes available here, in books and elsewhere on the Internet. One has to prioritise. Why should I invest a fair amount of time and money in a recipe which comes with no statement as to how good it is? Even a self-declaration is better than nothing, even if it's not quite as good as being subjected to group tests. So yes, I have considered it in that light and I'm not prepared to try the recipes of anyone in the distrusted category.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on March 03, 2011, 06:56 PM
I think the problem with this thread starts with the title - most recipes don't work. There's just no evidence for that.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Ramirez on March 03, 2011, 07:21 PM
I'm really not understanding this whole trust/distrust categorisation of people and recipes. Maybe I see things in a slightly simpler way, but if someone posts a recipe for a dish I might like  then I might try it. If a recipe receives positive feedback then I am more likely to try it. I pay very little attention to any preamble to a recipe or whether the author is someone I think I 'trust'.

In terms of the OP, I think to implement some sort of vetting process would do more harm to the forum than good.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Graeme on March 03, 2011, 07:30 PM
I don't rate Delia at all since seeing her mixing
stuff by hand with all them rings on her fingers  :(
Horrid  :(
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: solarsplace on March 03, 2011, 08:43 PM
I'm really not understanding this whole trust/distrust categorisation of people and recipes. Maybe I see things in a slightly simpler way, but if someone posts a recipe for a dish I might like  then I might try it. If a recipe receives positive feedback then I am more likely to try it. I pay very little attention to any preamble to a recipe or whether the author is someone I think I 'trust'.

In terms of the OP, I think to implement some sort of vetting process would do more harm to the forum than good.

Yes, agreed with your thoughts and points.

Also, at the end of the day this is, at the moment a free forum, where all of us - essentially - curry fans share a considerable amount of information and experience for free for the good of all.

Some recipes might be disappointing and the poster could be slightly delusional, but how can you enforce any kind of vetting on a free forum?

Just look at the recent issues that we all faced doing the informal group tests! - how could an official ranking system be measured here?

Cheers
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on March 03, 2011, 08:55 PM
I don't rate Delia at all since seeing her mixing stuff by hand with all them rings on her fingers  :(
Horrid  :(
I tried to decide if this would bother me, and wasn't sure. Then I went to the kitchen to bone a chicken, and found myself doing so while wearing a watch with a webbing strap.  So I guess on balance it wouldn't really bother me unless I knew she'd been mucking out her horse just before coming into the studio ... !

** Phil.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: George on March 03, 2011, 09:25 PM
I think the problem with this thread starts with the title - most recipes don't work. There's just no evidence for that.

In my experience, there's plenty of evidence -  I mean in general and not about this forum. Your standards may be lower than mine. You might consider that a recipe works if it's edible. I'm looking for something which tastes good or moreish; worth making again.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on March 03, 2011, 09:36 PM
You present no evidence that "most recipes don't work", just one assertion from a newspaper article.

You are in no position to suggest that my standards are lower than yours and I note yet again that you seem to resort to making personal slurs to forum members (me on this occasion) in your posts.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on March 03, 2011, 09:50 PM
You are in no position to suggest that my standards are lower than yours and I note yet again that you seem to resort to making personal slurs to forum members (me on this occasion) in your posts.
Now that's very unkind, Stephen : we have clear evidence that George's standards are far higher than ours -- he has even eaten a Big Mac at Ronald McDonald's (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5175.msg50841#msg50841), and we all know that standards don't get much higher than that ... 

** Phil.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on March 03, 2011, 09:58 PM
Phil

I apologise profusely. You are correct. I have to eat my words like George did his Big Mac.  :-X
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: George on March 03, 2011, 10:40 PM
You present no evidence that "most recipes don't work", just one assertion from a newspaper article. You are in no position to suggest that my standards are lower than yours and I note yet again that you seem to resort to making personal slurs to forum members (me on this occasion) in your posts.

You are wrong on almost all counts. First, the image is not from a newspaper article - it's from one of Delia's best selling books. Second, I didn't say you standards are lower than mine - I merely put the possibility forward as a possible explanation. It must remain a possibility - however remote - that you are easily pleased. Third, the introduction of a comparison between Big Macs and fine Indian food is what proves Phil is a troll - a trouble maker. It's not comparing like with like. Phil may have a daft tag line on all his posts saying not to feed the trolls, when he's the worst troll of all.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: artistpaul on March 04, 2011, 12:45 AM
I think the problem with this thread starts with the title - most recipes don't work. There's just no evidence for that.

100% agreed stephen
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: prawnsalad on March 04, 2011, 02:30 AM
Sorry if I missed something here as although I think DS is great I just cant remember her running a BIR?

As we aren't taking Steak and Kidney Pie I don't know why anyone bothered to reply to George.

My guess is she would screw up the Taz base first go, just like the rest of us.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Vindaloo-crazy on March 04, 2011, 06:42 AM
Maybe it's your cooking George? None of the recipes here work for you but do for many other posters...
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on March 04, 2011, 09:02 AM
Calling Phil a troll - a wonderful insight into George's world.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Razor on March 04, 2011, 10:33 AM
It's going to happen again if we're not careful!  RESIST TEMPTATION TO RESPOND TO INSULTS!  :P

My thoughts;  I post a recipe when I think I can go no further with the development of the dish, when I've explored all possibilities, and ruled out many of the variables.

My hope is, members enjoy the dish and give it positive feedback, however, I am not naive enough to think it will suit everybody's tastebuds.  Still, I'm confident that most of my own dishes have something which others can build on if they wish.

As for providing a "statement of quality" I'm never going to add a recipe to the forum and give it a tag line such as "Better than the BIR's"  Yes, I know Blade did with his tikka, and to be fair, it was certainly better than most!  I wouldn't be so bold.

Now, if anyone came back after trying one of my recipes and said "Razor, sorry mate but your dish was terrible"  I would;

(a) be safe in the knowledge that they haven't done it correct, as all my dishes are tried and tested on many many family and friends before I post them here;

(b) I would check through the instructions and make sure that I haven't made a mistake with the published recipe;

(c) I would thank them for trying the recipe but would enquire as to what it was that they didn't like about it.

The group tests are a great way of validating some of the recipes kindly provided by the members and I don't think that there is a need for a separate section or an "untrusted" section.

I guess if the forum was a tad more disciplined, every recipe provided could be accompanied by a review count for example;

Razors Seekh kebab with photos (27 reviews)

To validate how good the recipe is, a positive or negative function could be added to the review, worked out by percentage, so the title would now read;

Razors Seekh kebab with photos (27 reviews, 98% positive)  ::)

Unfortunately, as it stands at the moment, the reviews count would simply mean, number of responses to the recipe, many of which could be off topic!

I wonder if the above could be an added function to the forum, Stew?

Of course, anybody could still reply or ask questions but if you are reviewing the recipe, you could simply click on the 'positive or negative' option!

Whadya think?

Ray :)
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: George on March 04, 2011, 10:35 AM
Sorry if I missed something here as although I think DS is great I just cant remember her running a BIR? As we aren't taking Steak and Kidney Pie I don't know why anyone bothered to reply to George. My guess is she would screw up the Taz base first go, just like the rest of us.

Yes, it certainly looks like you've missed the whole point. It's perfectly valid to come up with a general observation and then suggest it MIGHT apply to the specific case of BIR recipes. In my experience, most (i.e more than half of) books claiming to reveal BIR recipes are a bit of a disappointment, to say the least, and I thought many people here tend to agree. It might be amusing to mention Big Macs and Steak & Kidney pudding but it's totally irrelevant to the main point I'm making.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: solarsplace on March 04, 2011, 10:43 AM
Hi

Ray, nice ideas and points for thought.

I really think before someone should be allowed to vote on a recipe, they should have to post a picture of their efforts and a small review, perhaps only a sentence or two. But they should demonstrate that they have made a proper attempt to make the dish. Personally I really enjoy seeing others attempts to cook a dish and tend to favour those where the OP has an accompanying photo with their recipe and members report back with photo progress. Gives me confidence when I try to make it that it resembles others attempts etc.

Cheers
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Vindaloo-crazy on March 04, 2011, 10:48 AM
Sorry Ray but anti-social behaviour is just that. I hardly post here now but need to point out that the forum is going to fall to pieces if I don't mention something.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Razor on March 04, 2011, 10:50 AM
SP,

Not a bad idea!  Got to admit, I tend to favour the recipes where a photo has been provided.  Not because I'm gullible enough to think because it looks good, it will taste good but, it shows it's a proper recipe, created by the recipe provider who has obviously spent many an hour trying to perfect the dish.

Ray :)
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: George on March 04, 2011, 11:12 AM
every recipe provided could be accompanied by a review count for example;
Razors Seekh kebab with photos (27 reviews)
To validate how good the recipe is, a positive or negative function could be added to the review, worked out by percentage, so the title would now read;
Razors Seekh kebab with photos (27 reviews, 98% positive)  ::)
I wonder if the above could be an added function to the forum, Stew?
Whadya think?

What a good idea! If it's too difficult to arrange within the forum software, perhaps we could do it manually by editing the thread title or a bit of text within the first (recipe) post. It could read something like "27 reviews, 98% positive as at Nov 2010". Even if that's a bit out of date by March 2011 it would be better than at present, and could be updated from time to time.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Razor on March 04, 2011, 11:23 AM
Hi George,

I don't know anything about 'IT' so I don't know how easy this would be to facilitate.  Maybe some of our more 'Tekkie' members could comment?

You see this kind of thing on ebay, holiday sites, amazon but I'm well aware that these are funded sites so maybe a free forum like ours couldn't accommodate such a facility?

As a moderator, would you be in a position to query this with Stew?  It would be a great addition to the forum.

The only downside that I can see is, if only one member reviews the recipe positively, then the post would show 100%.  Not a problem if it shows '1 review, 100%'  at least that would give it some perspective!

Ray :)
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on March 04, 2011, 11:34 AM
I don't know anything about 'IT' so I don't know how easy this would be to facilitate.  Maybe some of our more 'Tekkie' members could comment?
Within the present  SMF 2.0 RC1.2 framework, pretty close to impossible. I would suggest (without massive manual intervention).  If you want feedback/reviews/statistics/whatever, then you need to look for a forum package that would support that out of the box (because I'm pretty sure that Stew doesn't have time to write it for himself).  To be honest, I can't think of a single forum to which I subscribe that has the same sort of functionality as Ebay's feedback mechanism, and that is basically what is needed.  I can only suggest we all keep our eyes peeled, try to identify a package that would do everything that we need, then ask Stew whether he has any interesting in migrating the whole forum to a new software platform.  SMF uses the idea of "testimonials (http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=411246.0)" within their own forum, but that still requires moderator intervention before the testimonials go live, and I have no idea whether it can also produce useful statistics.

** Phil.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: George on March 04, 2011, 11:35 AM
As a moderator, would you be in a position to query this with Stew?  It would be a great addition to the forum.

Yes, by all means, although anyone can make a forum suggestion, or email Stew, of course.

I suspect it will be too difficult and/or costly to arrange within the forum software, unless it happens to be a standard feature. It's why I suggested a simple manual alternative - gaining perhaps 80% of the benefit for 20% of the effort. I'll be happy to edit/update selected threads in this small way, if most people - including Stew - are in agreement, and we can also agree the calculations in each case, e.g. a figure like 98%.

I agree that photos are useful but it's so much easier to produce a result which looks, rather than tastes good.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Malc. on March 04, 2011, 11:42 AM
A review system is a good idea, the closest you could get to a reliable method of judging a recipe overall. I don't think I have ever seen such a thing on a forum before though. A forum really, for all intent and purpose, is a review of sorts. A topic is posted and people reply with their comments, the only thing missing is a count.

We could effectively achieve this now by using the Poll option for topics. Creating a topic with a simple 'Do you rate this recipe? Yes/No' option would enable viewers to cast a vote. The downside is that each an every recipe topic would have to be edited and reviews would be anonymous which I feel would also reduce the reliability of the voting system.

Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Graeme on March 04, 2011, 08:10 PM
I don't rate Delia at all since seeing her mixing stuff by hand with all them rings on her fingers  :(
Horrid  :(
I tried to decide if this would bother me, and wasn't sure. Then I went to the kitchen to bone a chicken, and found myself doing so while wearing a watch with a webbing strap.  So I guess on balance it wouldn't really bother me unless I knew she'd been mucking out her horse just before coming into the studio ... !

** Phil.

Sorry for the late reply.

I just thought it was out of order to do this on television, unprofessional even ?
I thought she should have known better. The rings were very large with plenty of places for them...err bugs to hide until washed out via the mixing.
I would love to have taken a sample from her ring. I hate to think what may have been around that area  :o Mind you i also notice quite a few celebrity chefs touching there faces and even worse touching/picking there nostrils while talking/cooking on set.
Am ! the only one this bothers ?
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: George on March 04, 2011, 09:17 PM
I just thought it was out of order to do this on television, unprofessional even ?

Have you ever wondered what goes on in the kitchen of some BIR restaurants or takeaways, when nobody is looking? I dread to think. Would the fear of such a risk put you off going to a BIR that served up delicious food?

I don't really mind how many rings Delia is wearing on TV. What counts for me is whether her recipes turn out well, and they do, with a far lower failure rate than for most other cook books.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Curry Barking Mad on March 04, 2011, 09:49 PM



I would love to have taken a sample from her ring. I hate to think what may have been around that area  :o
[/quote]

Are you sure mate?
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Les on March 04, 2011, 09:50 PM
Have you ever wondered what goes on in the kitchen of some BIR restaurants or takeaways, when nobody is looking? I dread to think. Would the fear of such a risk put you off going to a BIR that served up delicious food?

Maybe a few sweat drops off  the nose, Just to give the curry that jenesequa
HS
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Graeme on March 05, 2011, 12:10 AM



I would love to have taken a sample from her ring. I hate to think what may have been around that area  :o

Are you sure mate?
[/quote]

LOL  ;)

Sorry about being off topic George, say no more, say no more.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: prawnsalad on March 05, 2011, 12:41 AM
Sorry if I missed something here as although I think DS is great I just cant remember her running a BIR? As we aren't taking Steak and Kidney Pie I don't know why anyone bothered to reply to George. My guess is she would screw up the Taz base first go, just like the rest of us.

Yes, it certainly looks like you've missed the whole point. It's perfectly valid to come up with a general observation and then suggest it MIGHT apply to the specific case of BIR recipes. In my experience, most (i.e more than half of) books claiming to reveal BIR recipes are a bit of a disappointment, to say the least, and I thought many people here tend to agree. It might be amusing to mention Big Macs and Steak & Kidney pudding but it's totally irrelevant to the main point I'm making.

I may have come across a little harsh here unintentionally. However there is no validity in your original post as DS does not specialise in Indian food any more than Jamie Oliver does.
The position I now occupy is one of zero time for any chef (celebrity or otherwise) who has not actually worked in a public BIR personally, as no matter how good they are at streak & kidney (pie not pudding) they lack any real proof of ever making a true BIR dish even once.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Graeme on March 05, 2011, 08:46 AM
I just came across a very true comment in the introduction to a Delia Smith book.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b1b6a2c656faf615fa6715ca52bc538a.jpg)

I agree with the two main points:

1. Delia's recipes do tend to produce good results
2. Other recipes might not.

How can this be? Are most other authors no better than con artists?
I'm afraid to say it may apply to many of the recipes 'published' here, as well.

I suggest we need some kind of 'peer group review' before any recipe is allowed to be posted here, perhaps with a graphic stamp as being 'tried and tested'. The implication might be that many/most other recipes are only to be tried at your own risk.

The thing that jumps to my mind is...
1) Well she WOULD write this in one of her books,  shes selling her books and Image.
2) The wording and description sound to good be be true....i,e
"what i like about you Delia" "the kind comment was cheerfully whispered" and
" by a charming lady who is anything but an idiot" who writes this stuff its like a novel  ;D
If i was reading this book i would look at this as total sales hype and ott, i would have put the book down at this point and bought the hairy bikers...not really but you know what i mean.


Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Les on March 05, 2011, 09:30 AM

the position I now occupy is one of zero time for any chef (celebrity or otherwise) who has not actually worked in a public BIR personally, as no matter how good they are at streak & kidney (pie not pudding) they lack any real proof of ever making a true BIR dish even once.

That would include 99.9% of all the recipes on cr0 then.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on March 05, 2011, 09:36 AM
The thing that jumps to my mind is...
1) Well she WOULD write this in one of her books,  shes selling her books and Image.
2) The wording and description sound to good be be true....i,e
"what i like about you Delia" "the kind comment was cheerfully whispered" and
" by a charming lady who is anything but an idiot" who writes this stuff its like a novel  ;D
If i was reading this book i would look at this as total sales hype and ott, i would have put the book down at this point and bought the hairy bikers...not really but you know what i mean.

I don't have a problem with Delia (or any other author) seeking to promote their work by factually reporting positive feedback from existing customers, and I am certainly willing to give Delia the benefit of the doubt concerning whether or not this exchange ever took place.  That said, I do not have a single copy of any of Delia's books, nor any other books by so-called celebrity chefs [1], simply because I prefer to trust the recipes of those whose reputation has been established over time, rather than in the deliberately shortened timescale of television and popular entertainment. 

** Phil.

[1] Not strictly true : I was given a book by Gordon Ramsay as a present, which of course I could not refuse.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on March 05, 2011, 09:48 AM
I just thought it was out of order to do this on television, unprofessional even ?
I thought she should have known better. The rings were very large with plenty of places for them...err bugs to hide until washed out via the mixing.

OK, but how many rings did she have ?  Ten, say ?  Well, we all have ten fingernails, and the amount of crud that can accumulate under them would seem to me to be an even more likely source of contamination then her rings.  I have a vague sympathy for your general point, but unless/until the time comes when every television "chef" (and I use the word loosely) does a full surgical scrub before commencing food preparation, and until all television kitchens are equipped with long-arm taps that can be elbow operated, I don't think we should worry excessively about the presence of a few rings.

My EUR 0,02.
** Phil.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: emin-j on March 05, 2011, 12:48 PM
It's going to happen again if we're not careful!  RESIST TEMPTATION TO RESPOND TO INSULTS!  :P

My thoughts;  I post a recipe when I think I can go no further with the development of the dish, when I've explored all possibilities, and ruled out many of the variables.

My hope is, members enjoy the dish and give it positive feedback, however, I am not naive enough to think it will suit everybody's tastebuds.  Still, I'm confident that most of my own dishes have something which others can build on if they wish.

As for providing a "statement of quality" I'm never going to add a recipe to the forum and give it a tag line such as "Better than the BIR's"  Yes, I know Blade did with his tikka, and to be fair, it was certainly better than most!  I wouldn't be so bold.

Now, if anyone came back after trying one of my recipes and said "Razor, sorry mate but your dish was terrible"  I would;

(a) be safe in the knowledge that they haven't done it correct, as all my dishes are tried and tested on many many family and friends before I post them here;

(b) I would check through the instructions and make sure that I haven't made a mistake with the published recipe;

(c) I would thank them for trying the recipe but would enquire as to what it was that they didn't like about it.

The group tests are a great way of validating some of the recipes kindly provided by the members and I don't think that there is a need for a separate section or an "untrusted" section.

I guess if the forum was a tad more disciplined, every recipe provided could be accompanied by a review count for example;

Razors Seekh kebab with photos (27 reviews)

To validate how good the recipe is, a positive or negative function could be added to the review, worked out by percentage, so the title would now read;

Razors Seekh kebab with photos (27 reviews, 98% positive)  ::)

Unfortunately, as it stands at the moment, the reviews count would simply mean, number of responses to the recipe, many of which could be off topic!

I wonder if the above could be an added function to the forum, Stew?

Of course, anybody could still reply or ask questions but if you are reviewing the recipe, you could simply click on the 'positive or negative' option!

Whadya think?

Ray :)

I like the sound of this Razor only problem is when someone gives  Negative feedback this could be down to their level of expertise or attention to detail rather than the Recipe,I like the idea though.   
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Razor on March 05, 2011, 01:31 PM
Hi emin-j,

Quote
I like the sound of this Razor only problem is when someone gives  Negative feedback this could be down to their level of expertise or attention to detail rather than the Recipe,I like the idea though.   

Very true.  I think any kind of rating system will have it's flaws as it is based on opinion, and really, only hold any credence when there is a decent level of reviews available for one to make up ones own mind has to how good the dish could be.

Ray :)
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: prawnsalad on March 05, 2011, 09:33 PM

the position I now occupy is one of zero time for any chef (celebrity or otherwise) who has not actually worked in a public BIR personally, as no matter how good they are at streak & kidney (pie not pudding) they lack any real proof of ever making a true BIR dish even once.

That would include 99.9% of all the recipes on cr0 then.

When using the word Chef I mean people who do it for a living. I am a member of this site who is an untrained amateur with no cooking qualifications as I imagine most others are.
But many recipes posted are alleged to be from "Real" BIR chefs and therefore worthwhile.
Title: Re: Most recipes don't work
Post by: Cory Ander on March 06, 2011, 10:25 AM
To my mind, most "authors" (at least with regard to this forum) post recipes with the sincere intent of helping others produce excellent curries and accompaniments (in their minds, anyway).  I don't, for one minute, believe anyone would post recipes in an attempt to "con" or deceive anyone.

The "peer group review" happens anyway.  People post recipes, "peers" (i.e. other people) try them,  and some post their findings.  The more positive feedback received probably means that more people are likely to subsequently try them.  What's the problem?  :-\

We all try recipes "at our own risk" (whatever that means?)! 

Having said that, a simple mechanism, for individuals to quantifiably rate recipes, would be great  (nothing new in that opinion  of mine....)