Curry Recipes Online
Curry Base Recipes => Curry Base Chat => Topic started by: Malc. on March 17, 2010, 02:17 PM
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One of the things that struck me first having recently joined the forums, is the use of pre-made gravy/sauce. All the while thinking it isn't right but seems but to go along with an ever increasing trend in TA's and BIR's. Well, the ones that I have tried anyway.
I then had a read up of CA's topic on the changing faces of curry. It certainly seems like a reasoned conclusion. This though, has placed me firmly as a lover of older style Bangladeshi cuisine.
The one and only time I was invited to look through the kitchen door at my local I was shown a huge stock pot (or should that read holy grail) containing what must have therefore been the most sacred and holy of ingredients, the pre-made stock.
Now I refer to it as stock as that is really what it was. The restaurant owner talked me through the importance of this stock and the main ingredients but essentially it was a stock made using mostly onion and some added spices etc. I do remember how he said it was cooked for some immense time to allow the onions to be broken down. They would then mash them to a pulp within the stock and remove the remaining skins. Of course there was much more too it but essentially it was a semi clear stock not a gravy or sauce.
This formed the basis to all of the curry dishes that required a sauce of some description. I watched on as in minutes the chef demonstrated how to make a Korma Sauce. He added spices to his pan along with what must have been coconut powder and then added a ladle of the stock, brought it to the boil and then added from a tin, some condensed milk and there it was, the perfect Korma Sauce in literally 2 minutes. Not a runny modern take on a sauce but a sauce with body.
What I did note also was that they didn't have one spice mix, they had several. Which also seems a little different to what I have read here so far.
Has anyone else experienced this or can help me create this stock?
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Axe,
interesting few thoughts.
i have no experience of "semi clear" stock. all the BIR pots i've seen look very much along the lines of what the sites recipes produce ie not clear. i do feel "stock" is a much better description than what we liberally call base or gravy. i am sold on the long cook too and feel the end point of most site recipes is too early (~3hrs is needed).
the observation on the use of several mix powders is personally something that would sit well with me and my needs (i think recipe refinement is what i'm lacking or my gap).
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What I have considered is that this one mix, one base, style of cooking is only to keep things simple in the kitchen. For examlple: my wife and I sampled a newly opened TA over a course of a few months and in that time we tried about 8 different mains. All of which were cooked to this style of thinking. The Dopiaza was swimming in a tomato like gravy with onion and pepper, not what I am used to which is a lot drier with just onions. It wasn't all bad but I couldn't rely on receiving a dish I knew. Perhaps this is the regional variation tha CA mentions, but you can't argue it would make it easier for them to produce.
It doesn't make sense to me that the variety of dishes available can be cooked this way and having several different spice mixes certainly sits better in my mind. Using a base stock with the key additives like the onion provides the foundation and the different mixes then gives you the structure, with the finishing touches provided by the individual spices and requirements of the dish. I know this sits against the current train of thought but it is one that I feel I ought to pursue. For now at least.
The BIR I mention also gave me a tour of the store room which was an impressive site as the kitchen. They a small room with nothing but shelves and on these shelves were metal tins about the size of a sweet jar in the newsagents, Floor to ceiling. Each one containing a spice of some description, over 150 of these tins were in there. I'm not suggesting each one was actually used or had a different spice from its neighbour but it certainly formed the opinion that they we're magicians of spice.
So that brings me back to finding out what is actually in the stock pot. Its funny, as its only having been here for the last few days that really sparked my interest to look at this.
In the meantime i'm going to try MarkJ's base. Having had my eyes opened and tastebuds tantalised with my take on CA's Seekh Kebab, I can't wait to process the base. I hope to look at the various stages to see if I can produce a stock rather than a sauce. Its been quite a read his topic all 8 pages of it!
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Hi Axe,
Essentially, base or gravy, is a stock. I have known it to be called all three. Most bases rely heavily on large quantities of onions along with various spices, pretty much how you describe the stock that you observed.
I am totally with you on how you describe the TA's and BIR's reason's for cooking this way but, maybe the base,gravy or stock, is not as recent an innovation as it may first seem?
If I'm correct, I think the correct term for the base is "Grabbi or Garab" something that was developed long long ago in Indian cuisine, way before it was it was introduced to Britain. Perhaps it was not used in the same way that the BIR's use it today, but if you think of it as just a "stock" then guess, this would make sense?
Lots of cuisines use bases or stocks as their starting point's (as I'm sure you know this anyway :)), Italian = tomatoes, french = wine, and so on... I think describing the base as a stock is a very suitable description.
Have you made one yet Axe, if not, what is your perception of how it would be? My perception of what a base should be like, is, a thin, mildy spiced liquid of soup consistency, versatile enough as not to be the dominant flavour in the dish but balanced enough to be the foundation or starting point for a dish, giving you the flexability to build on.
As for a standard spice blend or spice masala, I'm completely with you on this. It's definitely created for convenience. The varying taste of the dish being create by timing, quantity and technique and maybe even temperature?
I think separate spice masala's lend itself more to traditional style's of cooking rather than BIR. The one noticeable thing about most BIR's is that "taste". Each of their dishes will have it, you can't put your finger on what it is, but you certainly know when it's missing.
For example, a traditional Vindaloo will be a completely different dish from a traditional Madras (I know some people won't accept Madras as having traditional origins) Whereby, a BIR vindaloo, albeit, a different dish from Madras, you can tell that they're cousins! Does that make sense ???
Anyway, that's my slant on things, for what it's worth ;D
Ray
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Hi Axe
I think of bases and stocks as being one and the same thing. It sounds to me that what you are describing as a stock is one which has minimal (or no) spicing. Essentially I see a base (or stock) as being an onion soup and other ingredients are variations on this basic recipe.
I have several old books on cooking curries, ranging from the 1950s to 1970s. They are not BIR style at all but home style cooking. The one thing they have in common is that there is no base or stock. However the basic ingredients are the same. The recipes call for preparation of finely chopped onions, ginger, garlic etc. but it exists for that meal only and not as way of churning out dozens of curries.
It seems to me that the use of a huge stock pot brings a little more industrialisation into the cooking process in what is after all, a commercial context. Domestically however, we can aim to be as home style or as BIR as we want. Indeed there is something to be said for being both.
So for me, from a one off recipe to a clear stock to a spiced base are but points on a continuum.
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I refer to 'stock' as being a thin watery liquid infused with flavours that provide the foundation flavours of the dish or dishes it is used in. What I read here that is referred to as 'base', I see as a sauce.
Since the basis of a BIR is a commercial one, then anything produced in its kitchen must be done on a commercial basis. This is why I favour my idea of a single 'stock' where I can add the basic ingredients used time and again, what ever they be.
From a sauce point of view, I would be happy to tender the notion that restaurants do indeed have pre-made sauces that they use, but again, to be any good they would have to produce several different types and store it. This doesn't make sense from a practical or commercial point of view, unless of course you were producing and selling an awful lot.
This brings me back to one stock but multiple spice mixes and so the circle goes for me. It doesn't help having seen this in practice and put to very good use.
I feel a well earned and timely visit to my local coming on, notepads at the ready ;)
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A stock would imply lots of veg are boiled up in water with some spices, then the veg is removed leaving you with a slightly spicy vegetable stock. The BIR base sauces are definitely blended with all the veg to produce more of a sauce - this provides the body of the curry, a stock wouldn't work.
I understand you comments on the various spice mixes. it's a point we think Mikka might have tried to raise once before in his own unique crazy way. There is nothing wrong with having a spice-less base and adding exactly the right spices at curry cooking time. The speed comes from the fact most of the BIR curries will contain ground coriander, turmeric, cumin e.t.c. From a speed point of view it makes sense to have these at least partially added to the base.
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Chris,
I do remember them saying they put some spices in the stock, but it did work as a stock. It maybe that it is a dying tradition or a very little used way of doing things but none the less, I watched them create a dish from the the stock.
It is no surprise to me that this might sound a little odd as I have struggled to find any other restaurant that produces food of their ilk. They are not that far fetched from what we all generalise but to me they are ahead of the game, even if they are old school.
I will say this, I have never eaten a better Chicken Korma anywhere, come very close but never beaten.
Who is to say my tastes are more demanding, its just what I know and like. That is the passion that drives me forward to search for a solution to cook it at home.
One thing is for sure, in all that I have learnt, Indian or not, each step I take is with an open mind. ;)
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Axe this is a very interesting post and I think the first I've read anywhere, Kudos. I'm a great believer in taste per dish if you will? But adding to that its very important that dishes are put out there that people can actually cook and get good results from nearly every-time they try.
The real big difference to my mind is that as you say and I'm finding out there simply cannot be just ONE SPICE MIX. Yes you'll get ok results but never near the real thing whichever it is that a person likes? (Side by side with the real thing).
Of course if you are experienced enough you'll know the additions to make but to a newcomer that would be near impossible hence the generic recipes posted on various sites. CA incidentally does say that his spice mix is what HE likes so fair do's to that also, there are many.
Frankly however I know everyone can cook a base sauce but it just ain't in that at all. It's what the cook adds here and there just like in any cooking style from anywhere on the globe, that final finish makes the dish.
Actually I'm amazed at the talk of this base and that base and what you can have with each? They are just about all the same really if you really look at each of them as regards contents. It's just boiled water with some spices and vegetables with onions, no big deal for anyone to get right if they try, again very interesting and a great eye opening post.
I love my food, I love it when I get it right too, (Don't we all). Thing is the sauce can be made in a pan with a little effort in just half an hour though you just won't have that much for another time. Right now I'm playing with the pan. SPICES, Additions, playing, smelling, playing again. Results are good, no point in posting anything until its just right. I'm very funny about that.
Excellent points and observations Axe. Welcome.
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I avoid using the terms "sauce" and "gravy" because I concluded, long ago, that it is neither...though BIR staff tend to call it "gravy".
I settled on the term "curry base", since it forms the basis of most BIR curries.
However, it is also a "stock" by any other name (albeit with the solids blended in).
It is undoubtedly this that you saw in the huge stock pots Axe.
The essence of a curry base is boiled onions (and, thereafter, various additional veggies and minimal spicing). You may have seen a very basic curry base comprised of onions and very little else Axe?
Or, perhaps you are referring to "akhni" (a clear, fragrant, spice infused stock with the solids removed)?
You can use both, but it is the "curry base" that is essential to what I consider to be traditional BIR cooking.
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there simply cannot be just ONE SPICE MIX
But the fact remains (from copious observations and reports) that a typical BIR invariably DOES use one "spice mix" for the majority of their curries (plus individual spices, plus tandoori mixes, plus garam masala maybe, etc)
Yes you'll get ok results but never near the real thing
I do not know what you mean by "the real thing" Mikka but, for me, what these BIRs produce IS the "real thing".
if you are experienced enough you'll know the additions to make but to a newcomer that would be near impossible hence the generic recipes posted on various sites
I don't know what you mean by "generic" either Mikka? But the recipes posted, on this site anyway (I can't speak for various other sites), are, on the whole, an attempt by the authors to capture how BIRs cook curries. What's "near impossible" about newcomers reproducing them (provided they are written clearly)?
Actually I'm amazed at the talk of this base
Because it forms the basis of a traditional BIR curry Mikka and it is therefore fundamental to the taste of a BIR curry
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it's a question i feel i can ask my local TA - do u use more than one spice mix.
i think i know the answer from what i've seen from the counter. No is the answer - but they do add additional individual spice to change the taste across dishes.
they certainly only have one base.
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dont forget bir chefs add extra spices to many things we dont usually think about. for example the chef at my local adds many spices to the watered down tom puree. they are not just using tom puree with water as many cro members usually do. (me also ! ;D)
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Thanks for the replies so far, its making for some great reading. :)
I am starting to formulate an opinion that my local is not a 'typical' BIR whether by design or perhaps having chosen to be slightly different. They have been around for a long time whilst others have come and gone. So perhaps this is the secret to their longevity.
The stock pot certainly looked to contain the essence of your description for a basic stock CA. It looked very similar to a real chicken stock in its translucent colour. I wasn't close enough to define its smell unfortunately.
Another thing that I have considered is that when a member has asked 'what's the best base to go with a specific dish', a different base has been recommended. That suggests that they are therefore more specific and rather than being a base, they are infact a sauce for a dish or dishes albeit finished or waiting for final ingredients. Again this brings me back to my train of thought and a single stock.
Either way, the goal is to produce a BIR meal at home. So regardless of the method used, if the result is a BIR tasting meal, job done. The biggest problems we all face sharing methods and recipes though, is preference, experience and regional variation of the BIR cuisine. After all, one man's meat is another man's poison.
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Axe
If it's your local and presumably you go there a lot, just ask them about the stock / base. If you go at a quiet time (Monday 6pm for example (assuming the head chef doesnt have a day off then)) ask if you can meet the chef. You could grease the wheels first by sending a pint of Cobra to the kitchen for him. It works wonders!
Once you are in the kitchen you'd be amazed how helpful the chefs can be. Make sure you drill them down on their exact Onion Bhaji recipe / method while you are there! If the owner is lingering he might not give so much away.
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@ CA. I know BIR is the REAL THING in terms of what we are trying to complete. I'm talking about yours/mine.theirs/everyone else on the planet who has a care to try it and so on.
Also 'Generic' is what I term for spice mixes posted on Forums that ARE NOT made up by REAL BIR CHEFS. They are guesses, best matches for and so on.
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Also 'Generic' is what I term for spice mixes posted on Forums that ARE NOT made up by REAL BIR CHEFS. They are guesses, best matches for and so on
But many are first hand spice mix recipes straight from BIR chefs' mouths Mikka?
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But many are first hand spice mix recipes straight from BIR chefs' mouths Mikka?
the above statement is something i'd not realised. CA could u point me to the ones u're thinking of. why this intrigues me is that my local TA chef will just about talk curry with me (u can feel the commercial v customer conflict). the one area he won't discuss full stop is mix powder. probably too sceptical but i'm just not convinced that pukka spice mix has been posted. i'd love to be wrong as this spice mix trail is my next part of the journey.
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Not that I have been here that long but I was also unaware of this. It would be a useful asset to know who is and who isn't a BIR Chef. If that is not possible, it would be good to have authentic mixes and indeed recipes full stop, marked as being from the horses mouth, so to speak.
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Hi Axe.
Don't worry. Yes there are good recipes here and on the Internet, especially youtube.
If that is the question you are asking?
It would be a useful asset to know who is and who isn't a BIR Chef
I've known of only 3 people who ever posted recipes on forums, not all were BIR. That said and when they did they weren't received that well and in some cases (Not here), scorned.
Apparently I am not taken seriously either but then I'm not an Indian BIR Chef, but I think I could be.
The best meal I ever cooked was following an Indian Chef's recipes who owned one here. That of course is just not BIR.
Not that I have been here that long but I was also unaware of this. It would be a useful asset to know who is and who isn't a BIR Chef. If that is not possible, it would be good to have authentic mixes and indeed recipes full stop, marked as being from the horses mouth, so to speak.
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the above statement is something i'd not realised. CA could u point me to the ones u're thinking of
Browse through the spice mixes in the supplementary recipes section Jerry, there are several posted there that are reportedly from BIRs.
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It would be a useful asset to know who is and who isn't a BIR Chef
As far as I'm aware there are none on this forum (past or present)
If that is not possible, it would be good to have authentic mixes and indeed recipes full stop, marked as being from the horses mouth, so to speak.
They generally are Axe (usually in the title of the post or at the start of the post) and there are many of them. Most of Haldi's (Pete's) are straight from BIRs..as are many others (reportedly)
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could u point me to the ones u're thinking of
Spice mixes reportedly from BIRs (or BIR chefs):
Dipuraja's: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4354.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4354.0)
Taz's: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4164.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4164.0)
DD's: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2975.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2975.0)
SS's: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2096.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2096.0)
Rajver: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2153.0\ (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2153.0\)
You will see that they are all very similar and generally contain coriander, cumin, tumeric, paprika and curry powder.
I am sure there are several others. You could probably include some of those published in books (Kushi, Kris Dhillon, etc) that are reportedly from BIRs (which I haven't done here).
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CA,
many thanks for adding the links to the spice mix. i have used DD's for quite a while but it's got pushed out by u're aka. i've also used the BE2008 for a while too. i keep 3 off myself (LB, Kushi & aka).
these are the mixes i've shortlisted and compared previously:
Bruce Edwards (old)
BE 2008
Secret Santa
Kushi
parker 21 rajah c/pwdr
Haldi Takeaway
DerekDansak BIR
Dipuraja's
parker 21 mouchak
i think for the 1st stage of my spice journey i will need to be to make sure i've tried them all out.
they are a u say very similar and i don't feel they will make that difference that i'm looking for. i still remain sceptical that we only have part of the story on mix powder. i have no proof of course.
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Thanks for the comments CA, as I am new here I am still trying to find my legs, so to speak. There is so much info on this site locked away in lengthy topics, that it will probably take some time for me to find, but i'll get there. ;)
So me hearties, back on track, any more thoughts about the stock theory?
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On the different stock for a different curry/end result, id say your probably right, in michelin star restaurants maybe, but what the people here are trying to do is make a stock that serves all purposes, the same stock whether it be a balti/madras/korma or whatever.
Ive been in an indian restaurant kitchen and they use one stock for all.
Ive also worked on an indian restaurants kitchen roof and they used one pot of stock for all, and the asbestos that fell in it apparently had no ill effects either come to that! and it was and still is a really good curry house.
Im speaking for myself here, i love curry, but i dont think i want to spend a week in the kitchen making 5 different stocks for 5 different end dishes. One decent stock is all you really need, the different flavours come by adding the differing end spices and ingredients and the way in which its cooked.
As long as you have a tasty but fairly underpowering stock(spice wise) i dont think you can go too far wrong.
As for spice mixes, your right all the different recipes ie balti, madras,bhuna dopiaza jalfrezi, they all contain a different blend of spices to each other, and if you bottled up the different spices and labeled them you would have a different spice mix for each curry. It would save time but i dont mind just following a recipe and grinding them fresh whenever i make a curry, plus they taste better.
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I will say this, I have never eaten a better Chicken Korma anywhere, come very close but never beaten.
Who is to say my tastes are more demanding, its just what I know and like. That is the passion that drives me forward to search for a solution to cook it at home.
Axe, if you ever manage to crack this I would like to try the recipe. I personally find BIR korma nauseating and so don't order it, but I would like to know what the version you rate so highly tastes like. It just might change my mind.
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i dont think i want to spend a week in the kitchen making 5 different stocks for 5 different end dishes.
As long as you have a tasty but fairly underpowering stock(spice wise) i dont think you can go too far wrong.
I don't disagree with your thinking and agree. But I do know that commercially, there are always several processed short cuts that enable restaurants to produce good reliable food quickly.
Reading here about the 'base' and then the 'spice mix' all makes sense and produces great results. But almost everyone says something is missing. Could that be another processed short cut?
Someone has mentioned about the canned tomato being processed with spices, which seems logical and that then means I don't need tomato in my base or as I would call stock.
Hypothetically, I then have three key processed short cuts that enable me to create a variety of dishes all with almost unique flavour, just by varying the amounts. Add in individual components and bingo.
I may be completely wide of the mark here, but I feel it is worth discussing. Especially as it appears that no-one has yet found the answers. Surely thinking outside of the box is worth a little time and effort.
I suppose the real question is, are we trying to create and replicate a BIR dish in its entirety or a dish that is just as enjoyable but made at home?
SS, being a lover of the milder dishes I used to have Korma quite regularly. My tastes have changed over the years and I now choose less sweet more savoury dishes.
However, I do enjoy a Korma ever now and then.
When ever the wife and I have chosen to frequent a restaurant or TA, I always judge it on its ability to cook a good korma. If it creates a dish that is runny, very pale in colour and without any real substance, it fails me. Sadly, most Korma dishes I try are like this in way shape or another and by your comments, I suspect it is the same for you too.
If I ever find out the secret which i'm sure starts here with the stock question, you will be the first to know. ;)
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I agree with your thoughts about the stock being different to a sauce.
To me a stock is a clear liquid made from the boiled ingredients and passed/sieved.
A sauce is then made by adding other ingredients to this stock.
Incidentally, i have seen an indian restaurant stock that was boiling away, with the whole ingredients in it yet still whole, then the stock is added to the final dish via ladle, but only the liquid used. But if you take a blender to this pot of stock, it would undoubtably then become a sauce.
When i took a tub of my base sauce to an indian restaurant a couple of weeks ago, the chef called it a gravy. The same restaurant used the stock i mentioned above, ie unblended.
As for finding answers to the myth of bir flavour and taste, i really believe there will never be a concise answer/recipe or method to achieve this. It all comes down to personal taste.
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Peter, I think we are of the same mind here just looking at the subject from different sides of the room. ;)
Almost disturbingly coincidental, I have taken a phone call this morning from my local, here at work (we supply them certain things). This then turned into a trip to the restaurant.
During the course of my visit, I was able to ask questions to both the owner and his cousin, get close to the stock and have a look at what they put into it.
During my conversation several things became clear. Firstly, they have a passion about their cooking and were very happy to talk food. But it was clear that the language barrier was going to be a problem as much as they admitted, they didn't know the English Terms for many of the ingredients.
By far though, the greatest passion they had was trying to educate me that cooking BIR is not the way to cook curry. Time and again, this was mentioned and time and again I was offered to see how a 'real' curry is made.
Perhaps both of these and the odd pause to talk in Bangladeshi with each other, was why I felt they were being cautious of my reasons to ask. But I also felt that they honestly did not know all of the answers. Perhaps these are the simple reasons that I feel everything is shrouded in mystery.
Obesrvations
Spice Mix
On entering the kitchen I made several observations firstly, they had more than one spice mix. two larger containers held two very different mixes one with an orange/red appearance with traces of dark spice within it and the other a much lighter yellow/orange colour. There was also salt, sugar, what looked to be coconut powder and and 1 or 2 others.
Stock
This is where I now have to admit that I have been wrong to call it stock. Infact, my original observations (from some years ago) must have been wrong entirely. What was indeed in front of me was a pale yellow sauce which clearly wasn't translucent. On top lay a film of what I can only describe as oil and skin. Its consistency was that of say a Heinz tomato soup.
Out of View
I didn't think to look under the main prep table but during our discussions, I was shown from underneath an ice cream tub full of what was explained to be tomato puree. Clearly it was not just puree. It had a very smooth texture and a rich red colour. Traces of deep red oil were trying to gather at the edges of the tub and I could see that something was submerged within it, probably garlic cloves from what I could tell.
Discussions
This really is in two parts because the spice mix deserves its own mention. This is as it was explained but does not provide the full picture i'm afraid. Fortunately though, I have been invited to see the gravy made from start to finish, which I intend to do.
Gravy Main
The bulk as we know is onion roughly chopped the process was described: Using about 40lbof onion (this seems like alot) add to pan with a little water and soften, then add a mixture of ginger, garlic and green chilli that has been crushed, about 2 table spoons and again along with green peppers and soften. Top up with water and cook for 2 1/2 hours. Blend the mix thoroughly and then add the spice mix. It gets quite vague here as he wanted to talk 'real' curry and I wanted to press on with the procedure. Sadly that's as far as we got.
Gravy Spice Mix
He lead me to 'the shelf' where bestowed upon it rested an assortment of spices. Some usual suspects and some not so. I was told that all of these were used to create the gravy mix. Among these were Cinnamon, Coriander, Bay Leaf, after that it got a little more involved. Firstly he mentioned Jeera regular seeds as you would expect but also Black Jeera. Then there was what he called Aniseed which is not star anise but a seed similar to fennel but smaller they call something like 'guam moori'. Then a mix of spices they referred to as Punch Puron. This actually contained a mix of spices essentially this is where the normal Jeera was but also with black and yellow mustard seeds as well as onion seeds and possibly others.
Conclusion
I was wrong about the stock, which is a relief in a way as it obviously challenges almost everything I have read on here. There are quite a few spices involved in the gravy alone and more than one spice mix is used, as well as at least one other shortcut procedure, the tomato puree mix.
I will report back with more when I finally get the chance to watch the sauce made from start to finish.
Thanks for reading.
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I dont know about punch poron but it sounds similar to panch phoran.
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2espicesofindia%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fIndian%2dFood%2ehtml&WD=phoran%20panch&SHOP=%20&PN=Indian%2dFood%2dTRS%2dPanch%2dPuren%2ehtml%23aISW025_2dp#aISW025_2dp (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2espicesofindia%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fIndian%2dFood%2ehtml&WD=phoran%20panch&SHOP=%20&PN=Indian%2dFood%2dTRS%2dPanch%2dPuren%2ehtml%23aISW025_2dp#aISW025_2dp)
Also the red oil colour you saw in the tomato puree might have been made by adding deggi mirch...
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2espicesofindia%2eco%2euk%2fcgi%2dbin%2fsh000001%2epl%3fREFPAGE%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252espicesofindia%252eco%252euk%252facatalog%252fIndian%252dFood%252ehtml%26WD%3dphoran%2520panch%26SHOP%3d%2520%26PN%3dIndian%252dFood%252dTRS%252dPanch%252dPuren%252ehtml%2523aISW025_2dp&WD=mirch%20deggi&SHOP=%20&PN=Indian%2dFood%2dMDH%2dDeggi%2dMirch%2ehtml%23aISG036#aISG036 (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2espicesofindia%2eco%2euk%2fcgi%2dbin%2fsh000001%2epl%3fREFPAGE%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252espicesofindia%252eco%252euk%252facatalog%252fIndian%252dFood%252ehtml%26WD%3dphoran%2520panch%26SHOP%3d%2520%26PN%3dIndian%252dFood%252dTRS%252dPanch%252dPuren%252ehtml%2523aISW025_2dp&WD=mirch%20deggi&SHOP=%20&PN=Indian%2dFood%2dMDH%2dDeggi%2dMirch%2ehtml%23aISG036#aISG036)
As for the chef wanting to show you how to make a REAL curry, i understand completely, BIR chefs don't go home from work and cook the same food as they serve in the restaurants for themselves, most would probably think that our western styled curries are pretty poor representations of Real food.
I know well knew an indian curry house chef in brum whom i sat next to in a mechanics college course who called restaurant food shite and wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, mind you he also said Indian housewifes were naff cooks also lol.
Also as regards the different spice mixes used, say for the same particular curry, id guess that one was the home made(maybe) curry powder/spice mix, the second garam masala.
Good thread this :)
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Hi Jerry, its nice to hear that the DD spice mix is still in use by members of this site. I obtained it from a bir chef i have sadly not seen for a year or so. But its nice to know his spice mix has been of some use at cr0. I always remember how this chef insisted that good chicken stock is crucial. I am going to be trying to use more chicken stock in my base next time. I believe the stock may be a part of that missing moorish taste I still crave.
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The 5 spice is what it was but it didn't seem to have Fenugreek seeds in it. I will get a second chance to find out next week as I have been invited back to see them make onion bhaji from scratch.
I couldn't possibly guess what as in the puree though it looked more like a tub of red paint than anything else. I know that sounds odd but that's what it looked like. Absolutely no granular texture what so ever.
I think he was more shocked that I wanted to learn how to cook BIR. I did explain that that it was more specific dishes I was interested in but the fact I had enjoyed his restaurant so many times, I wanted to at least how it was done.
As for the spice mix, I am only guessing at what was actually there. Other similar coloured spices were on he table. But like Aladin in his cave, my eyes were everywhere.
More to follow hopefully.
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DD,
your spice mix is without doubt real good. i kept it as part of my 3 off for well over a yr. it's only recently been pushed out by the aka. having said that i feel "mix powder" is my next area of interest (Mikka's spice journey) - i need to do more work on which should be in my top 3.
perhaps i'm going to much on the scepticism side - how confident are u that the DD mix is what the chef uses in the BIR. my local TA won't talk about it (they are always very friendly and helpful but there is a commercial line for sure).
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Axe,
fascinating report and producing fascinating responses - i'm well glued.
interesting that DD's local BIR add to their tom puree. i know for sure my TA use it plain so there is clearly variation. it would be real interesting to know more on what is being added. on the container u saw under the counter - i think it's bunjarra (onion paste) - the presence of oil and rich red colour gives it away for me.
the list of spices for the gravy is real good confirmation for my belief that using the same spice mix in both gravy and dish is just too much of a simplification.
the 'guam moori' is particular of interest. i use fennel at the mo as the closest i've been able to find. i've tried ajwain and that's certainly not it.
i will try adding panch puran to my existing whole spice (tgad2007 - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2203.70 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2203.70)
i have black cumin on my to buy list.
i think u do need 2 off different spice mix to cook the full range of BIR.
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I Googled the 'Guam moori' and interestingly I was close to the spelling which appeared as Guamoori. It is fennel as I understand, the seeds at the restaurant were generally slightly smaller than the seeds I have in my cupboard. This could be due to cultivation methods or a variant of the Fennel plant but for all intents and purposes, it is Fennel.
I really couldn't say what has been added to the tomato puree, but the look and consistency now I think of it, really was more like tomato ketchup. It was the colour that struck me, you could almost sense the flavour oozing through it.
One thing I forgot to add, I asked specifically about the adding of tomato to the base and the answer was no. This is when I was shown the tomato puree.
The Panch Puran is an interesting find and rather gratifying as the ingredients of which, I have put in my Onion Bhaji recipe. 1 tub fives spices, I wonder how many other tubs contain mixtures.
Certainly from what I have seen, I believe there are several key components that enable the restaurant to broaden their menu. I will leave you with this opening comment by the cousin when asked about the sauce initially:
"We have a big menu with many different dishes. The sauce enables us to cook a wide range of products but it is only one small part as we add individual spices to make the different dishes"
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Hi Jerry, i am confident it is the same as i noticed some similar tastes to their own curries once i started using the DD spice mix.. However they overlay another strong toffee taste over the top of the spice mix taste which is not easy to do at home. I still use the DD spice mix , and believe its authentic. I am currently trying to add more spices to my curries. but always add a tsp of dd spice mix to commence each curry. I find the DD spice mix works well with extra cardoman, and addition of some decent tandorri masalla spice mixes.
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"We have a big menu with many different dishes. The sauce enables us to cook a wide range of products but it is only one small part as we add individual spices to make the different dishes"
Hi Axe, this is the sort of comment that confirms to me, that BIR's only use one base for all and not different bases for different final dishes, which has been suggest here, from time to time.
Ray
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DD,
many thanks - helps with my starting point for my intended spice journey with the overlay as u call it being a sort of objective.
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i've posted this before but it's relevant so i add it again for what it's worth.
when i've talked base with the local TA - the owner always positively declares that it is the holly grail and something that cannot be replicated at home. unless u get this right u won't get BIR taste. the chef glazes over this view but towing the line makes it clear that it's a purely a method of adding water and bulk to the curry.
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Ray, I can't imagine a BIR using more than one base, it wouldn't be practical for them. Having now seen various mixes and the tomato sauce/puree, I am certain of this. The statement as you say, clearly points this out.
Jerry, when I was discussing the base with the owner, he was saying a very similar thing and did say you can't do this at home. What I determined from this was that he was saying this for two reasons:
1) The base if you really consider, is a very delicate blend of spices. considering the amount of onion and water used, the spice is a very small part in ratio. Trying to replicate this ratio at home would be very hard to do without any bulk cooking involved.
2) He simply couldn't understand why I wanted to replicate BIR and refer to my previous observations in that he would rather have told me how to cook 'real' curry.
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Hi Axe, i actually purchased some bir base and cooked a madras with it. It made no difference to the taste of my curry when compared to using a plain safron cr0 base. i concluded the magic does not reside in the base. there are some other key skills chefs use to get the taste. The base is very important, but wont give the taste without some other key skills. I spent too long experimenting with endless different bases, with no real improvment to my curries. since moving on to making chnages to my spicing of final curry i am getting much better results. Not sure if other members have had a similar experience to this?? i would be interested to hear?
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Hi DD, I've only made 3 bases: SnS 2008, CA and Taz but I have cooked a lot with all of them.
I would tend to agree that the curries I have made with these taste fairly similar and none of them have helped me produce 100% BIR so far.
I've settled on the Taz one for main use but hope to receive some more spices soon to try out different approaches to the final cooking stage. I would be interested to know what kind of spicing you are using for the final cooking stages.
Paul.
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Hi Paul P, i am just experimenting with all spices, cardoman, fenuggreek seeds, onion seeds, cinemon, mustard seeds, poppy seeds. adding a little to each madras, and trying to gauge if its nearer or further from bir taste. It seems to take a few attempts to really taste whats going on. its not as easy as i thought it would be. I am no longer just aiming for bir taste , as its more fun just experimenting creating my own style and taste. Its debatable if my new approach will get closer to bir or not. I suspect not, but what else is there to try after 2 years ? sadly no one is willing to seriously help cr0 members on our quest. >:(
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no one is willing to seriously help cr0 members on our quest. >:(
I spoke to the owner of my local again today, who popped into my office. I was glad of this as I wanted to confirm everything was still on for my kitchen demo tomorrow.
He's a lovely chap, happy go lucky but he knew I was going to ask questions again and said, you have to come for the demo as it is the only way. We must show you as we can't tell you, we don't know the English for alot of it.
He's been in the game 35 years and as i've mentioned before, is very much old school. He is very keen to allow me to visit for a demo and hopefully I will manage to get a demo for the gravy (base) at some point as well.
Given all the barriers language, processes, recipes, etc. its not surprising.
I just pray that tomorrows demo is fruitful.
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Having returned from the demo I am somewhat in ore of the way in which they wield their magic in the kitchen. Specifically there for the Bhaji demo I was also trying to keep tabs on everything else.
I can't stress how very happy they were for me to watch and have openly invited me back for anything I want to get involved with. To say I am chuffed is an understatement.
What I did learn is that if you want any accurate information about what is going on you don't talk the brother who runs the business generally, you ask the brother that runs the kitchen. It would seem that some of the info I had been given was not entirely accurate, like the spice mix which was supposed to have the Panch Puran in it, which didn't. (Se IG Spice Mix http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4442.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4442.0) )
Anyway, I am hoping to get back to watch them make the gravy but I can add the following comments on how it is generally done, in their kitchen:
They fry Ginger & Garlic until lightly browned adding in 1 green pepper, spice mix and 1 chopped potato. The onions are added as well as half a lemon as is. A little water is added to prevent anything burning while the onions are softened.
While this is happening they simmer 6 cinnamon sticks, 6 bay leaves, 10 green cardomans and 10 cloves, in water for about 45 mins to infuse the water. The infused water is strained of solids and added to the onions and topped with just enough water to cover the onion whilst it cooks for a further 2 hours or so. It is allowed to cool before it is then blended to a thin sauce like consistency.
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Thanks Axe for the helpful insights to the base, its the first really different way of doing things i have seen so far anywhere. Infusing the water with spices before adding to the onions is a good way of stopping your spices burning.
The other way of doing it is the way i make my sauce and thats to cook the onions and veg and throw the spice mix into it with water and then boiling, yours is a different way still.
I think ill pick my recipe apart and try your way, it sounds good.
The only thing ill really have to leave out is the lemon as my missus has a citrus allergy, but i can always add mango powder instead.
Spiced water, nice :)
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Hi Axe, peterandjen
Have a look at this base that I have used previously http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4283.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4283.0)
Not exactly the same as the one you report on Axe, but note the whole spices that go into it. I'm guessing that this base would produce very similar results to the one in the link.
Let us know what you think,
Ray
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I have edited my post to show that the spiced water is added to the onion with the whole spices having been removed. Just incase this wasn't understood.
As was pointed out to me by the chef, whole spices can't be blended into the sauce.
Perhaps one of the most interesting comments that he made was when I asked him what it was that makes one restaurant set apart from another, is it the gravy, the spice mix?
His reply: "Gravy and spice mix is purely a choice of the individual chef. Some work for themselves and others do not. We take great care to make sure the gravy and spice mix is made to our standards as it is our business, not somebody else's". "You as the customer decide what you prefer".
He also went on to say that the methods and recipes they use, are an amalgamation of cuisine common to different areas of India. Or as he put it, "we have picked a little from each". Keeping in mind they are from Bangladesh.
He also commented on how he didn't want his various dishes to appear the same as some other restaurants do. Explaining along the way, that the base was perhaps less spiced than others to give him more control when creating the dish. "I do not add tomato as I can add a little puree when I create the sauce". This was the point he showed me the tomato puree today.
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Axe,
tantalising stuff.
i can see your man knows his stuff for sure. the proportions of whole spice are useful to me and i will revise what i use along those lines. i don't use clove and perhaps i need to re think this.
really pleased for u.
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I don't think the base adds a lot to the flvour of the curry, it adds to the consistency. You could make a base out of pureed onions in water and the curry would taste pretty much the same. For me, the trick is in frying and reducing it. My previous takeaway (which produced the bast curries I've ever had) told me that the meal would be ready in 25 mins, every time I ordered, no matter what I asked for. So those curries probably sat in their containers for a bit, stewing, before I got my greedy chops on them.
Any meal is better left to rest for a while before eating.
I think that a lot of the problem is that we think we need to cook quick and rush through everything, slapping the curry onto a plate when we think it is ready. Allow an extra bit time and we allow the flavours to coalesce and come together.
Just my tuppence 'urth.
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If the base has no real flavour to add why do they go to so much effort to put flavour into it? Surely in comparison, one could clearly tell if a good base or just pureed onions in water had been used?
I understand where your coming from but its not the way my favourite BIR does things. They have alot of prepared components like the base, the spice mix, tomato puree, meat, veg, etc. but all the dishes are assembled to order. I say assembled as the only real thing being made at the point of order is the final sauce/gravy in which the dish is served.
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Axe,
it's an intersting thought raised by vindaloo-crazy and not for the 1st time. several and i think even CA is convinced that the "gap" is in the base.
i've tasted the base from my local TA and it's clear to me there is quite a lot of truth in what vindaloo-crazy says. i describe it as a threshold. if the base is below this threshold then whatever u do the curry will never make the grade. contrary even if the base exceeds the threshold then U still have much to do and to get right to deliver that taste.
in terms of what the threshold is - i can only describe it as the properties of the base as opposed to the ingredients.
when u are next in u're TA/restaurant u need to ask for a sample - it's crucial u taste it so that u know what u're aiming for at home.
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when u are next in u're TA/restaurant u need to ask for a sample - it's crucial u taste it so that u know what u're aiming for at home.
There's alot of truth in that. My next visit to the restaurant, bar the trip for a meal, will hopefully be for a Kitchen Demo of the Base. :)
It is interesting to hear these comments about the base though. By its makeup curry is very spicy so even a well flavoured base could get lost. But can it really be just a foundation for textural balance, surely it has to give more than just that? But as I have seen a few times now, things are alot different in the world of BIR.
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when u are next in u're TA/restaurant u need to ask for a sample - it's crucial u taste it so that u know what u're aiming for at home.
There's alot of truth in that. My next visit to the restaurant, bar the trip for a meal, will hopefully be for a Kitchen Demo of the Base. :)
It is interesting to hear these comments about the base though. By its makeup curry is very spicy so even a well flavoured base could get lost. But can it really be just a foundation for textural balance, surely it has to give more than just that? But as I have seen a few times now, things are alot different in the world of BIR.
Very interesting thread Axe ;) keep up the good work , however although I can confidently say
my Madras is is better than the ones we have had from the last three separate T/A ;D I just cant seem to match the Curry from our favourite Bangladeshi T/A . I watched our Curries being made in the kitchen there and the staff were very helpfull , the Curry was made with all the usual ingredients we all use except they mix a little Butter Ghee with Vegetable Oil I suppose this adds a little richness to the flavour , and when I asked about their Base sauce it was quite simple regards ingredients , Onions , Green Bell Pepper , Ginger , Small amount Green Chilies, Carrot , Powdered Spices. Fresh Coriander . And this produces the best T/A Curry around , simple Base to produce a delicious Curry.
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when I asked about their Base sauce it was quite simple regards ingredients , Onions , Green Bell Pepper , Carrot , Powdered Spices. Fresh Coriander .
No tomatoes? If so that makes three BIR bases that have no tomatoes, this one, the one jerry has seen and axe's!
Now I think this is great information but why has it never been mentioned before? No tomatoes in a base is a big deal and one I certainly like.
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when I asked about their Base sauce it was quite simple regards ingredients , Onions , Green Bell Pepper , Carrot , Powdered Spices. Fresh Coriander .
No tomatoes? If so that makes three BIR bases that have no tomatoes, this one, the one jerry has seen and axe's!
Now I think this is great information but why has it never been mentioned before? No tomatoes in a base is a big deal and one I certainly like.
Just edited my post SS to include Ginger and a Small amount of Green chilies ( found my original post ).
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3580.msg32155#msg32155 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3580.msg32155#msg32155)
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Isn't the fact there are so many different bases making delicious curries proof that the base is not really the answer to getting the taste we're after?
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Axe,
for got to add - take a spoon of the base and spread it out on a plate to produce a smear. this will explain it's makeup which is equally important as the taste. it took me aback as to how thin "watery" it is but it isn't - the amount of onion is surprisingly deceptive.
as for toms in base i think some BIR do and some don't. both the saffron and rajver which i make regular have toms in. the base does taste very different with and without toms yet it's suprising with or without u don't really realise in the final dish (u add more puree at dish frying). the properties and proportions of the base just have to hang together.
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VC,
I think Ray's topic below best answers your comment. I would agree to the extent that there are many very good bases on here and really, as long as you use one of them, you'll have very good results.
In a quest for that something extra, should we not strive to replicate the base as close as we can. Something I have recently started realising is that if I use Base A with Spice Mix B, I won't be able to create dish C. Because Dish C is made using base C and Spice Mix C.
Jerry, texture was mentioned by the IG Chef. He pointed out how 'thin' his base was. A fact he continued to add, was very important to him. He made such a passionate statement about his base that I can't simply help but feel that the journey starts here.
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I reckon the base gravy is important Axe becuase it gives the food that element of consistency that we need, I don't think it counts that much toward the final flavour though mate, I think that's down to spices, oil and cooking method. Remember most of the flavour has been boiled out by the time you use the base and will be overawed by the spices, oil and prepared meats you use.
I'm not discounting a good base, I've used loads of them, but I think they are there to add the curry consistency to the food and not the taste?
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VC, we've misunderstood each other, as I believe we are saying the same thing but in different ways. That is to say, a good base is needed to make BIR but is not the defining ingredient, would you agree?
I think what I am trying to add to this is that a good base could only come about from a careful balance of the added flavours. Which is why I think using just boiled onion in water would not provide enough consistency in the end result.
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Yep, you're right, I agree, to a point though.
There's a quote from an Indian restaurant owner in the 70s or 80s that said we've got away with selling onion gravy with a few bits of chicken in it, Indian curries were better then. I leads me to believe that the stock for a really good curry is not going to count to the final taste.
The boiled onion base must've the one they all used back then? No carrots, no peppers.
Which leads me to conclude that the base gravy has no reflection on the curry you produce. It's the way you cook the ingredients, mostly the cheapest you can find, altered, that gives the final taste, not the base.
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It's the way you cook the ingredients....that gives the final taste, not the base.
Their are two schools of thought here VC. There are those that think the curry base is THE essential element to creating the taste and smell of a traditional BIR curry (a view to which I subscribe) and those that think it's more to do with the "technique" used to make the final curry. Perhaps never the twain shall meet! Perhaps it's a bit of both.
There are many threads on the forum discussing the merits of either view.
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Most seem happy with the curries they are creating so I suppose everyone is right? :-\
I just find it hard to fathom that the addition of a carrot or another ingredient into the base is going to make any difference to the final taste, especially with all the spices added when preparing the meal (mind you with the amount of chillies I eat my taste buds are probably less than 100% anymore).
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everyone needs to make a few different bases off the site to understand what the impact of base is.
a think it's the opposite to "never the twain" - in fact it's crucial that both base & technique come together.
just a few examples of my experiences:
i make rajver, saffron, mytake in rotation. i do add in some generalities and adopt the same method. i also use the same yellow stickies to cook from and the same technique. they do produce very different curries.
i've made CIAH 3 times recently and made my std curry sauce from it. the curry sauce is well below par than from my std bases. don't get me wrong CIAH serves a very useful purpose but in comparison to a full base it's well inferior.
i made 1 off CIAH and had not carrot so x2 the pepper. i actually ended up chucking the batch and remaking. i think i did get a tad cocky and did not following the technique fully which i'm sure had some affect - however i blame the duff result on the balance of the ingredient being out of the tolerance evelope "threshold".
i've just revisited the ashoka base which is very simple ie no carrot no pepper. i haven't cooked with it in anger yet but when i cooked with it last time it was quite a surprise how good the curries were.
in short yes a basic base will work "produce decent curry" but to get the best curry u need a top notch base.
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I'm willing to go with this, most of the curries I cook for myself are so hot you could use pretty much anything for the base and get away with it as long as it was cooked correctly. I've tried loads of bases, only Taz's off this site and the rest of my family (who aren't chilli heads like me) have told me it was spot on. We have been away from a UK takeaway for a year though so their memories might be suspect?
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I have enjoyed this topic and it has certainly given me an indication into the varying tastes and ideals we all have. This is without doubt, why we all different opinions.
I know for a fact that the IG Chef was careful to mention that his base must be suitable for every dish that he uses a base for. This ranging from Korma right the way up. I mentioned this earlier in the topic and it was the point he said he didn't tomato.
So of all the base recipes everyone has tried the burning question begging to be asked is at the moment is:
What is the most versatile base you have used to date?
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I got a good one off "another site" but I'm not sure I can post it here. It's a real pain to make but the consistency is brilliant.
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Hi Axe,
What is the most versatile base you have used to date?
It's got to be CA's, and his list of final dishes using the same base are testament to this in my opinion.
Ray
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What is the most versatile base you have used to date?
I think you'll find there are quite a few curry bases here that will happily make a full range of curries. The only thing I would particularly avoid is (too much) chili if you plan to make mild curries. You can reduce, or omit, this if you wish.
I'd say you could consider:
Bruce Edward's (would be my pick)
SnS's
Saffron
Taz's (Mick's)
Ashoka (if you like the margarine and coconut!)
Darth Phal's
Admin's
Ifindforu's (Terry's)....
...the list is a long one, ones I haven't mentioned I probably haven't tried, including:
Rajver
Dipuraja's
Pete's/Haldi's
Curry King's
MarkJ's....
I suggest you're best off reading the comments in the associated threads and sections. Every one of the above has members who prefer it.
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I agree that perhaps the addition of the odd carrot or pepper wouldn't add much to a huge pot of base, but then again it shouldn't detract from it either. When trying out a base I think it is important to stick to whatever ingredients are in the recipe though, otherwise you are not actually using that base. Hence I am happy to add carrots or peppers when the recipe calls for them. One of the joys of being a curryholic and member of this site is the variety of bases and associated recipes. My partner refers to this site as gastro porn!
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Gastro Porn, love it! :D :D :D :D :D
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I shudder to think what you are doing with the base though. She must be beside herself! ;D
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eww, that made me think of a Chicken Korma there :o
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We all put a lot of love into our base gravies, some take it further than others!
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CA,
What is the most versatile base you have used to date?
I think you'll find there are quite a few curry bases here that will happily make a full range of curries. The only thing I would particularly avoid is (too much) chili if you plan to make mild curries. You can reduce, or omit, this if you wish.
I'd say you could consider:
Bruce Edward's (would be my pick)
SnS's
Saffron
Taz's (Mick's)
Ashoka (if you like the margarine and coconut!)
Darth Phal's
Admin's
Ifindforu's (Terry's)....
...the list is a long one, ones I haven't mentioned I probably haven't tried, including:
Rajver
Dipuraja's
Pete's/Haldi's
Curry King's
MarkJ's....
I suggest you're best off reading the comments in the associated threads and sections. Every one of the above has members who prefer it.
Interesting that you don't seem to have listed your own base here? From this site, I have tried the SnS, Ashoka as well as the Kushi one that I used from the off but I do find your's to be the 'one' for me.
Ray :)
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Interesting that you don't seem to have listed your own base here?
Naturally, I by far prefer my own, but modesty prevents me from listing it above ;)
I am pleased that you have done so for me though! :P
Some of the ones I listed are also quite tomatoey, which some members may feel limits their versatility.
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If you could only pick one though CA, which one would it be? (You can say yours, we don't mind) :P
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As I indicated in my post above, aside from mine, I recommend Bruce Edward's as being the best and the most versatile of those I've tried.
However, others have different views and I suggest you read these threads (amongst several others in this "curry base chat" section of the forum):
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2203.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2203.0)
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4074.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4074.0)
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How did I miss that? Doh!