Base Sauce or Stock?

[peterandjen]

I dont know about punch poron but it sounds similar to panch phoran.
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2espicesofindia%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fIndian%2dFood%2ehtml&WD=phoran%20panch&SHOP=%20&PN=Indian%2dFood%2dTRS%2dPanch%2dPuren%2ehtml%23aISW025_2dp#aISW025_2dp
Also the red oil colour you saw in the tomato puree might have been made by adding deggi mirch...
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2espicesofindia%2eco%2euk%2fcgi%2dbin%2fsh000001%2epl%3fREFPAGE%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252espicesofindia%252eco%252euk%252facatalog%252fIndian%252dFood%252ehtml%26WD%3dphoran%2520panch%26SHOP%3d%2520%26PN%3dIndian%252dFood%252dTRS%252dPanch%252dPuren%252ehtml%2523aISW025_2dp&WD=mirch%20deggi&SHOP=%20&PN=Indian%2dFood%2dMDH%2dDeggi%2dMirch%2ehtml%23aISG036#aISG036
As for the chef wanting to show you how to make a REAL curry, i understand completely, BIR chefs don't go home from work and cook the same food as they serve in the restaurants for themselves, most would probably think that our western styled curries are pretty poor representations of Real food.
I know well knew an indian curry house chef in brum whom i sat next to in a mechanics college course who called restaurant food shite and wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, mind you he also said Indian housewifes were naff cooks also lol.
Also as regards the different spice mixes used, say for the same particular curry, id guess that one was the home made(maybe) curry powder/spice mix, the second garam masala.
Good thread this

[Derek Dansak]

Hi Jerry, its nice to hear that the DD spice mix is still in use by members of this site. I obtained it from a bir chef i have sadly not seen for a year or so. But its nice to know his spice mix has been of some use at cr0. I always remember how this chef insisted that good chicken stock is crucial. I am going to be trying to use more chicken stock in my base next time. I believe the stock may be a part of that missing moorish taste I still crave. 

[Malc.]

The 5 spice is what it was but it didn't seem to have Fenugreek seeds in it. I will get a second chance to find out next week as I have been invited back to see them make onion bhaji from scratch.

I couldn't possibly guess what as in the puree though it looked more like a tub of red paint than anything else. I know that sounds odd but that's what it looked like. Absolutely no granular texture what so ever.

I think he was more shocked that I wanted to learn how to cook BIR. I did explain that that it was more specific dishes I was interested in but the fact I had enjoyed his restaurant so many times, I wanted to at least how it was done.

As for the spice mix, I am only guessing at what was actually there. Other similar coloured spices were on he table. But like Aladin in his cave, my eyes were everywhere.

More to follow hopefully.

[JerryM]

DD,

your spice mix is without doubt real good. i kept it as part of my 3 off for well over a yr. it's only recently been pushed out by the aka. having said that i feel "mix powder" is my next area of interest (Mikka's spice journey) - i need to do more work on which should be in my top 3.

perhaps i'm going to much on the scepticism side - how confident are u that the DD mix is what the chef uses in the BIR. my local TA won't talk about it (they are always very friendly and helpful but there is a commercial line for sure).

[JerryM]

Axe,

fascinating report and producing fascinating responses - i'm well glued.

interesting that DD's local BIR add to their tom puree. i know for sure my TA use it plain so there is clearly variation. it would be real interesting to know more on what is being added. on the container u saw under the counter - i think it's bunjarra (onion paste) - the presence of oil and rich red colour gives it away for me.

the list of spices for the gravy is real good confirmation for my belief that using the same spice mix in both gravy and dish is just too much of a simplification.

the 'guam moori' is particular of interest. i use fennel at the mo as the closest i've been able to find. i've tried ajwain and that's certainly not it.

i will try adding panch puran to my existing whole spice (tgad2007 - https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2203.70

i have black cumin on my to buy list.

i think u do need 2 off different spice mix to cook the full range of BIR.

[Malc.]

I Googled the 'Guam moori' and interestingly I was close to the spelling which appeared as Guamoori. It is fennel as I understand, the seeds at the restaurant were generally slightly smaller than the seeds I have in my cupboard. This could be due to cultivation methods or a variant of the Fennel plant but for all intents and purposes, it is Fennel.

I really couldn't say what has been added to the tomato puree, but the look and consistency now I think of it, really was more like tomato ketchup. It was the colour that struck me, you could almost sense the flavour oozing through it.

One thing I forgot to add, I asked specifically about the adding of tomato to the base and the answer was no. This is when I was shown the tomato puree.

The Panch Puran is an interesting find and rather gratifying as the ingredients of which, I have put in my Onion Bhaji recipe. 1 tub fives spices, I wonder how many other tubs contain mixtures.

Certainly from what I have seen, I believe there are several key components that enable the restaurant to broaden their menu. I will leave you with this opening comment by the cousin when asked about the sauce initially:

"We have a big menu with many different dishes. The sauce enables us to cook a wide range of products but it is only one small part as we add individual spices to make the different dishes"

[Derek Dansak]

Hi Jerry, i am confident it is the same as i noticed some similar tastes to their own curries once i started using the DD spice mix.. However they overlay another strong toffee taste over the top of the spice mix taste which is not easy to do at home. I still use the DD spice mix , and believe its authentic. I am currently trying to add more spices to my curries. but always add a tsp of dd spice mix to commence each curry. I find the DD spice mix works well with extra cardoman, and addition of some decent tandorri masalla spice mixes.

[Razor]

"We have a big menu with many different dishes. The sauce enables us to cook a wide range of products but it is only one small part as we add individual spices to make the different dishes"

Hi Axe, this is the sort of comment that confirms to me, that BIR's only use one base for all and not different bases for different final dishes, which has been suggest here, from time to time.

Ray

[JerryM]

DD,

many thanks - helps with my starting point for my intended spice journey with the overlay as u call it being a sort of objective.

[JerryM]

i've posted this before but it's relevant so i add it again for what it's worth.

when i've talked base with the local TA - the owner always positively declares that it is the holly grail and something that cannot be replicated at home. unless u get this right u won't get BIR taste. the chef glazes over this view but towing the line makes it clear that it's a purely a method of adding water and bulk to the curry.