Quote from: sultry on October 05, 2005, 04:53 PM
... meaning that we will never all agree on one particular perfect formula!!

Yes I'd agree with that. We can probably all make a delicious madras, but I doubt that they would taste exactly the same. The one thing that the majority of British curry eaters will agree on though is that there is a unique and delicious smell and taste in most curry house curries. It's this that we are endeavouring to copy and it's totally infuriating that we can't do it, which is why the topic comes up so often.

I suffer from S.A.D and have been feeling particularly down this last week. Initially I thought it was because I was cogitating on this problem too much, but then I realised the last week had been particularly dull, weather wise, which was a relief because depression by curry would be particularly SAD! ? ?

Isn't anyone friendly enough with their local curry house to get a sample of the base they use on a daily basis? If you were then to cook a curry with that and it had the smell and taste, whereas before your curries didn't, that would finally tell us whether the base is the critical ingredient.

Quote from: pete on October 04, 2005, 08:11 AM
It has to be the base where the flavour is

Yes I totally agree. What's common to all the curries?, the elusive taste and smell. What else is common to all the curries?, the base sauce. It can't be the making of the finished curry because that's something that, apart perhaps from the size of the gas burner, is something we can exactly produce at home.

We're never likely to get anyone to see the full making of the base as done in a restaurant just because it takes so long. The problem then is that whatever it is that's giving the taste and possibly the smell is apparently something unwittingly done by the chef. I say unwittingly because if all the bases that have been divulged by the chefs to people on this forum are accurate, but still don't give the taste, then the chef is clearly not aware that some part of the base making process is crucial to it. This would seem to be confirmed by those members who have not only been told by the chefs that it can't be reproduced at home, but have had those same chefs around to cook it, and guess what, it didn't have the taste or smell.

It has to be because of the quantities that that the base sauce is made in. Now I don't mean that because they cook say 50 onions for a base sauce and we cook only 4, say, that there is some magic that stops it coming out the same flavour, that's just nonsense. What I mean is that some mechanical process, or some technique that is used purely because they have to deal with such large quantities is somehow totally transforming the final product.

So in my opinion it is something that is involved with bulk cooking of the base sauce and it's not because of the smaller quantities made at home. It also has to be common to nearly all Indian restaurants because they virtually all have that taste and smell.

I have to say too that I still don't have the faith that most of the people here do that the chefs are telling the whole story. Omission after all is not the same as telling porkies. As proof just look back at the chicken stock debate. At the start of this forum it was never considered. When finally it was suggested, most people said 'no way, they can't use stock in the base'. A few weeks on from that people had managed to find out that infact some do use stock in the curry base. And what about the re-use of the oil from the base when making the finished curry. Not the greatest crime, but they might not want you to know they do this. Just how many more little tricks might they be using and in what combination? This speaks volumes to me.

It's totally frustrating and I dare say this topic will come up again and again as it has before, just because it is so frustrating.

So, the question is what techniques/operations/methods could be being used by the curry houses when preparing bulk quantities for the base, that might have an effect on the final taste?

Quote from: George on October 03, 2005, 03:36 PM
My acid test (as mentioned before) is now whether a bag of home made curries in sealed foiled containers and a plastic carrier bag would smell as strong and delicious outdoors as the take-away

George I remember when you said this the first time and I wholeheartedly agree. It bears repeating occasionally so that the new members to the site can see what we are trying to achieve. But I'll tell you now, I truly believe we will never achieve this goal until one of us has been shown the ingredients and techniques, from making the base sauce to the finished curry, actually in a curry house. This is the only way that we will pick up on the missing ingredient or technique that is apparently not obvious to the chefs who have helped people on this forum.

It's just not plausible that between the number of books we've read between us, the number of curries that we've made and the number of small variations we must have made to each curry that someone hasn't stumbled across the secret. There has to be something that is not being revealed, even if it is inadvertently.

Quote from: DARTHPHALL on October 03, 2005, 03:15 PM
perhaps its our sincere wish to be part of & therefore to contribute to what has to be one of the best minority forums there is.

Blimey, I'm a minority!

Now where's that council house application form? ?

(people don't go getting all PC on me, it's a joke o.k.)

Thanks ashes that video was a good find. I love to see anything like this.

Your comment about the use of Patak's paste may not be what you think. I think he is using chilli pickle, which may or may not be Patak's, and later on you can see him adding lemon juice, so I think he must be making a vindaloo, at least the curry has that look to it.

What was more interesting to me is that he is cooking on a hot plate, so no chance of flamb?ing the curry there. Also there is a big container of cinnamon quills and not cassia bark and the merits of using one or the other was debated here recently.

Anyway nice find.

Quote from: raygraham on October 03, 2005, 11:44 AM
Perhaps they start with one or two particular currys then add different spices / ingredients to each to make the next, more to that for the next and so on

I hadn't thought of that, but yes, I think you may be right. Certainly there is enough similarity between dishes for it to happen this way. Even so they must still be using two or three pans and it must be quite frenetic. I would love to see them in action.

If any of the forum members who are friendly with their curry house staff could get the answer from the horses mouth I would be grateful.

I have been concentrating on this forum's posts so much that I have not been looking at the other forums I used to use. So for the first time for a couple of months I decided to look at the other forums.

I tried UKFDI on google:? http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.food+drink.indian?lnk=lr&hl=en
It seems to be getting only a few posts a month compared to lots per day a while ago

I tried the yahoo group 'curry':? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/curry/
It's had one post this year

I tried in2curry:? http://www.in2curry.co.uk/curry_chat/currychat.asp
and the last post is from Ray complaining about it being dead


Is it just coincidence that all these groups died when this one started?

I was just looking at the sample pages for the new book and I think we're not going to get any new methods or 'secrets' from it judging by this. Although the unknown factor, at least at this stage, is the Kushi spice mix which might make a difference but I doubt it. I think it's likely to be one of the best books for total beginners to the hobby though.

These are the pages, they are a bit lo-res but you can get the idea from them.

The originals are here http://www.kushibalti.co.uk/about.htm

I was wondering just how they manage to make so many small amounts of different curries like you get in a Thali. Some of the Thalis I have ordered have had seven different curries in them, how on earth do they make seven tiny amounts of curry like this all at the same time? Can they really have seven different pans on the go for this one order? I don't think so, so how must they do it?