Topic: My recent findings

[George]

I'm agreeing with Razor twice here. Even though I am relatively new on this site, I am now on my 7th or 8th batch of base, and I have to say, it tastes so much better in the finished curry fresh, rather than frozen.

I should perhaps have said that my base was only 5 minutes old when it lead to my best-ever dhansak, but was 2 days old when it lead to a lacklustre re-run. I'd kept it in the fridge. It wasn't frozen. The significant decline in the taste of the finished dish may have been nothing to do with the base. It's my challenge to find out the factors which can lead to taste degredation from one day to the next, when I thought I'd kept the ingredients and method the same.

[George]

I bought a chicken dhansak from a BIR takeaway a couple of days ago. The restaurant had recently been recommended as a favourite by a few people so I thought I'd give it another try after a break of a few years. I thought the place was average then, and there was nothing about the taste of this week's dhansak to make me change my opinion.

But...there was definitely something about the smell of the sauce/oil residue which had spilled out a bit on to the takeaway's paper bag, which announced that it was a genuine takeaway curry. The smell was still there the next day. It could have been any dish but I'm sure I would always say it was the classic takeaway aroma - even though the dhansak was nothing special. I'm not sure that any of my curries have that  smell, so there's still something different about the genuine article.

[JerryM]

But...there was definitely something about the smell of the sauce/oil residue which had spilled out a bit on to the takeaway's paper bag, which announced that it was a genuine takeaway curry.

George,

much appreciate this little gem. i'm just trying to get my head round how to analyse the strength/taste of reclaimed oil and this is something i'd not thought but fits my intended blinkers off approach.

[George]

much appreciate this little gem. i'm just trying to get my head round how to analyse the strength/taste of reclaimed oil and this is something i'd not thought but fits my intended blinkers off approach.

Yes, I guess it's the greatest challenge to face this forum - to truly produce the takeaway aroma. Perhaps some members have already solved it. Spill a bit of genuine takeaway curry oil/sauce on a piece of paper bag, calling it sample A. Deposit some DIY curry sauce/oil on another piece of paper bag, calling it sample B. Leave it a while and then compare. Is there a difference in the smell?

My situation is that I preferred my dhansak over the takeaway version, but I'm sure the sauce/oil would not have left such an authentic aroma on a paper bag. If I could add that takeaway aroma on to my other elements of flavour, perhaps it would be even better.

[haldi]

I'm not sure that any of my curries have that  smell, so there's still something different about the genuine article.

Hi George
You and I have been trying for so long
I find the fact that the missing taste/smell, can't be nailed down, extremely upsetting
I just have to walk away from it
This goes on forever
I've seen so much in indian takeaway/restaurant kitchens
If you ran a takeaway, I bet you would consitantly and accidentally get what we are chasing

I think it's the oil added to the base, coupled with very minimal spicing
I've seen takaways cooking about a  hundred poppadoms, in a large wok of hot oil
This oil has then been left and gone into the base sometime in the following week
So you have flavour and age to consider
I've seen oil from cooking chips, chicken and bhajees go into the base as well
The quantities cooked are not practical to do at home
The deep pan fryers are on all evening too
Lost little bits of batter etc are gently frying and crisping
This oil has a smell
It's not a burnt aroma, but there is a depth and roundness to it

I suppose you could do this at home, but you would have such wastage of food
I don't want to cook a hundred poppadoms to prove a point either
Maybe that's worth it, I don't know
I suppose it's only ?10 plus oil
But a full sized base, too?
I suppose you would have to do everything exactly the same

There is no recipe I have come across, using fresh ingredients, that delivers the taste/aroma I have been searching for
If fresh ingredients could do it, I would have achieved it by now
I can certainly make curries as good as some takeaways, but that's not what I want

And it's not how you fry the spices either (singeing or whatever you call it)
Some good takeaways barely cook the spices for more than ten seconds, before adding the base
The taste has got nothing to do with spices
Over the years, I have had many samples of takeaway's curry gravy
Sometimes I have tasted it cold and it has seemed like nothing special
Really plain
But as soon as you heat it, there is that wonderful aroma
It IS the base that holds the secret

I think this will remain a mystery forever for us DIY curry fanatics
It doesn't matter how many demos, videos or recipes seen
It's not going to happen

The salt in the wound is that occasional moment of success, you can't repeat

[DalPuri]

Haldi and Jerry, have you ever made the recipe quoted from CBM for pre-cooked potatoes?

Going by memory and the fact that this was a very large pot of spuds I would suggest the following for home use.
As long as you understand this will be close but may not be totally true to the amounts the chef used..........disclaimer

For 2 lb of potatoes,
150 ml of veg oil
1 tennis ball sized finely chopped onion
1 tablespoon of garlic/ginger paste
Cassia bark 2" x 1" piece
1 bay leaf (Asian)
1 tablespoon of panch phoran
1 teaspoon of salt
2 tablespoons of tomato puree watered down 50/50
2 teaspoons of turmeric powder
1 tablespoon of mix powder
Water to cover

The mixed veg are done the same way.


Cheers
Mick

This is the ONLY recipe i've made that has a truly BIR aroma when cooked.
I've mentioned on a couple of occasions how good this is and is now what i use to make extra seasoned oil.
The only difference is i add 1 tbsp of methi and maybe 1 litre of oil.
the reason i started adding methi was because its a good enough recipe on its own let alone only being used for pre-cooking.
(Sometimes i've added base gravy too out of sheer laziness if not using for seasoned oil  )

The oil can have a slight sourness in smell after a week or so as it hits the pan which is no bad thing. I think it just matures in smell and taste and adds BIR to each dish thats cooked with it.
(Mick, i was really surprised not to see this in your book as its MILES better than the included pre-cooked recipe, a real gem.  )

That additional special BIR flavour definitely comes from oil and its created from whole spices and recycling.

I always add plenty of this oil to each curry which gets spooned off and saved for the next.


Frank. 

[emin-j]

Guys, We have come a long way in our quest to find the ' Holy Grail ' and many of us can produce curry's that equal or even better our local T/A's,even our favourite T/A have their off nights and produce disappointing curry's the same as us  : but as George has said there is still that certain something that even my best efforts just cant produce I have tried bhaji oil,seasoned oil,veg ghee,butter ghee,home made garam masala,countless spice mixes,different base recipes,high heat,low heat,the list go's on  but certain things stick in my mind such as -

My curry's taste much better and very very close to that 'BIR taste' when I reheat them 1-2 days later.

Two T/A that I use the most and have been in their kitchens do not use 'reclaimed oil' but do use veg ghee.

George, maybe we had better buy some of those brown paper carriers !    

Update !

Following this and JerryM's thread http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8347.0 highlighting MarkJ's thread it got my mind buzzing  : I got the mini fryer out of the cupboard and had a good sniff.. Wow ! BIR ! ;D I called the Wife to have a sniff and she confirmed this was exactly the smell that fills the house following us having a takeaway.
So I took a couple of ladles out and put into a dish and had another sniff  ;D yep that's it !
Just made 3 curry's using this oil,put some in the base (approx 75ml) some on the pre cooked chicken,and some in the final curry's.
I have resisted the temptation to scoff the lot  ;D and will reheat tomorrow evening as I want all my senses to be clear from spices as when I would be when buying a takeaway.
I did taste the curry's when adding salt and the taste was promising.
In my previous attempt at using Bhaji oil and if I'm honest the oil was a bit past it and smelt more acrid than BIR !
Will post results tomorrow   

[George]

I have tried bhaji oil,seasoned oil,veg ghee,butter ghee,home made garam masala,countless spice mixes,different base recipes,high heat,low heat,the list go's on 

Emin- Thank you for keeping this thread alive with various options and findings.

To others that say the 'paper bag smell' is not due to reclaimed oil - I'm not saying it is, although it might be. If it's not due to oil, what is it coming from?

[JerryM]

Dalpuri,

i've not made the CBM.

i know of the idea of spooning off and currently reluctant although it certainly can't be discounted as i've seen my local TA chef do same from the cooked dishes not regular but occasionally.

many thanks for adding to the list of candidates.

[ELW]

Hi George, one of my local bir's dishes seem to have very little oil, either floating on top of the dish, or staining a carton lid or plate. They seem more watery than oily. But they taste great. Before I started freezing my Ashoka onion paste, I stored it under oil in the fridge & scooped some off to start a dish now & again, as per the report from the Ashoka kitchen. There's no doubt that the oil plays some part, whether it's introduced carrying onion flavour from the base, or flavours from pastes, even oil from some garlic & ginger paste,the amount of oil that ends up in the dish could stack up considerably. The old fryer oil is definite no for me

Regards
ELW