Topic: Second visit to favourite T/A kitchen .

[Salvador Dhali]

@emin-j: I believe whole spices in the base is definitely the way forward (spiced water or other) but working out how much of each to put in could be a bit hit and miss

For what it's worth I've always used whole spices in my base (added after blending for the second cooking stage).

I don't go mad. I'll chuck in some green cardamoms, Asian bay leaves, and cassia bark*, as these are relatively mellow and just provide a subtle undertone.

It's not going to dramatically change anything or gift you that BIR flavour - as we know that comes from technique - but it's another little layer that adds something to the mix, which is all to the good.

*I can't quote precise quantities as I tend to change them depending on how I'm feeling, the base and the amount I'm making, but for a 3L base I'd say you can't got too far wrong with around 8 green cardamoms, 3 Asian bay leaves and a 4-inch piece of cassia. But as with all things BIR, as Chewy says it's freestyle cookery so experiment and find out what suits you, your base and and your palate.

[ELW]

Totally agree about the sieving of your base. It makes a big difference IMHO and is worth the messing about. I would say it improves the taste as well as the silky smoothness.

I think whole spices are probably used by my fave local TA but can't tell which ones and whether they are in the base or added to my karahi lamb at cooking time.

Cheers,

Paul

Same here PaulP, whole cumin in the lamb Karahi, not crunchy at all though. It's one of my favourite dishes & of note is completely different in colour & taste to chicken karahi, meat cooking liquor maybe???
I've been sieving the base gravy for a while after KD pointed out that the base should be skimmed while cooking. The amount of fibrous crud stuck in the sieve is unreal

[emin-j]

Emin-j

Have you tried sieving your base? See chewy's base sauce videos for details. I was sceptical and never bothered with it for a long time but having tried it for the first time I'm delighted with the improvement in the smoothness of the texture of my curries. Give it a try - just a standard fine sieve and use the back of a spoon to press the base though. It might be the silky look your family are expecting to see.

Hi natterjak,
that sounds a bit extreme to me and I cant see many BIR's doing that nowadays but if it works for you - great 
I have started putting the base through my Mr's Kenwood jug blender this makes it like milk and definitely better than just using my stick blender,looking at the outboard motors the BIR's use no wonder theirs is smooth  but I do wonder if this silky sheen could be from the veg ghee - ill find out on Saturday 

[emin-j]

@emin-j: I believe whole spices in the base is definitely the way forward (spiced water or other) but working out how much of each to put in could be a bit hit and miss

For what it's worth I've always used whole spices in my base (added after blending for the second cooking stage).

I don't go mad. I'll chuck in some green cardamoms, Asian bay leaves, and cassia bark*, as these are relatively mellow and just provide a subtle undertone.

It's not going to dramatically change anything or gift you that BIR flavour - as we know that comes from technique - but it's another little layer that adds something to the mix, which is all to the good.

*I can't quote precise quantities as I tend to change them depending on how I'm feeling, the base and the amount I'm making, but for a 3L base I'd say you can't got too far wrong with around 8 green cardamoms, 3 Asian bay leaves and a 4-inch piece of cassia. But as with all things BIR, as Chewy says it's freestyle cookery so experiment and find out what suits you, your base and and your palate.

Hi SD,
I'll have to take a guess on the whole spices when making my next base probably working something out on the amount of portions I get from the base,in my last base I used the spiced water method but the spices didn't really come through so next time I'll blitz the whole spices along with the rest of the ingredients,cant see any reason why not 

[Salvador Dhali]

@emin-j: I believe whole spices in the base is definitely the way forward (spiced water or other) but working out how much of each to put in could be a bit hit and miss

For what it's worth I've always used whole spices in my base (added after blending for the second cooking stage).

I don't go mad. I'll chuck in some green cardamoms, Asian bay leaves, and cassia bark*, as these are relatively mellow and just provide a subtle undertone.

It's not going to dramatically change anything or gift you that BIR flavour - as we know that comes from technique - but it's another little layer that adds something to the mix, which is all to the good.

*I can't quote precise quantities as I tend to change them depending on how I'm feeling, the base and the amount I'm making, but for a 3L base I'd say you can't got too far wrong with around 8 green cardamoms, 3 Asian bay leaves and a 4-inch piece of cassia. But as with all things BIR, as Chewy says it's freestyle cookery so experiment and find out what suits you, your base and and your palate.

Hi SD,
I'll have to take a guess on the whole spices when making my next base probably working something out on the amount of portions I get from the base,in my last base I used the spiced water method but the spices didn't really come through so next time I'll blitz the whole spices along with the rest of the ingredients,cant see any reason why not 

Unless you've got an industrial blender you may find that the cassia bark doesn't take too well to blitzing, emin-j, though not really an issue if you use Chewy's sieving method.

If you tried two otherwise identical bases side by side - one with akhni stock or whole spices and one without - you'd definitely pick up on the difference, but as said it's subtle.

But then isn't everything in this game?

A little bit of this, a little bit of that, not too much of the other... It's a balancing act, that's for sure...

But it sounds as though you know what you're looking for, which is a good place to be.


 

[JerryM]

emin-j,

whole spice "chef garam" and veg ghee (re ashoka) are key ingredients in the base.

i use 1 tsp of chef garam per 800g onion and 30ml v.ghee in same. i do this for all bases. more ghee can be added and improves the effect - too much though is no good.

i've tried frying in v.ghee and don't like it compared to reclaimed oil.

[emin-j]

emin-j,

whole spice "chef garam" and veg ghee (re ashoka) are key ingredients in the base.

i use 1 tsp of chef garam per 800g onion and 30ml v.ghee in same. i do this for all bases. more ghee can be added and improves the effect - too much though is no good.

i've tried frying in v.ghee and don't like it compared to reclaimed oil.

You kept that quiet JerryM !
I think I will be using 1 chef's spoon of veg ghee in my next base (6ltrs) for a starting point although not too happy about using it ..
The wife did comment on why my curry's seem oily compared to the T/A ,that could because they use ghee ?

[JerryM]

emin-j,

just a realisation since Zaal that what i call whole spice is in fact "chef" garam. i've posted about using a muslin bag and subsequently spice ball for some time. parker21 also added the water infusion method.

the ghee used to be marg. it was chriswg who put me onto switching from the marg. the marg came from the ashoka base - which for me has far too much marg in. i've not kept record but think the optimum ghee/marg was 60ml in 800g onion which equates to 3L base.

on 60ml being chef spoon then your idea of using 1 off in 6L sounds a good starting point. the ghee is much better than the marg as it produces the same effect but not a sort of sickly Taint associated with the marg.

on the chef masala i've not experimented as 1 tsp seemed to work. previously in the spice ball went 4 off cardamom, 4 off bay and 1 off anis. the tgad or Zaal method enables more depth of taste by adding in a greater depth of spice. i also use it now post fleet5 in my mix powder. i've used in pilau rice for some time too.

on the amount what i look for is the taste in the oil. just taste a bit when it surfaces. it's possible that more could be added but i feel i have no need to experiment as the 1 tsp does the job. everything in curry of course needs to be in balance and too much would be as bad as too little.

i can't really say that either of these additions make a 'silky' look though.

ps try a 1/2 chef of base to help out with the singe - may help - it's what i do (see spice frying trials).

base link may be of use in terms of the general principle to be applied to all/any base: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3462.0

[emin-j]

Hi JerryM,
The spice trials are interesting (2008 !)
I have had my best results  by frying the G/G then removing pan from heat and adding 3 tbsp thinned tom paste and then add 2 tsps of spice mix and 2 tsps kashmiri chili, this gives enough liquid in the frying pan to be able to fry the spices well without burning and I can fry to almost a dry pan without any burning,I then add the first ladle of base and everything blends together.
This was unlike the chef at our favourite T/A who after frying G/G fried the spices for at the most 20 seconds then immediately added tom paste (thinned) stirred for a few seconds and then added first ladle of base.
The gas flame was the full width of the pan but was a lazy flame and the whole process was very casual.

[JerryM]

emin-j,

your method is exactly it - it's the presence of water (in any form) that matters. you can get equally good result with what i call "dry" frying - i spent 3 months at it. the thing about having the water is the consistency for me. i believe the the fleet5 singe & quench is equivalent just a tad easier to master.

my flame is lazy and wraps around the pan and now that i've got the hang of it - casual too. it depends on the dish but i rarely add a ladle at a time - tends to be a chef spoon at a time initially increasing quickly as the volume in the pan increases (for cream dishes it don't matter that much but for hot fry i get the best result if the heat does not dip).