Topic: Whole Spice Experiment Pays Off !

[noble ox]

Hi Emin
Great results with the GM experiments, I have found that a lot of BIR chefs add GM as the last ingredient a couple of mins before the end
I like to think that the trick is freshness,when I make mine I dry roast in the oven for 5 mins or so then grind and use immediately making small amounts
Give it a try and let us all know the results

[emin-j]

97% now then ;D.  Well done emin-j.  You confirmed my suspicions at least about the inclusion of those particular whole spices.  It's just "in what form".  I'll try this with some base next time i make a curry before i extend it to the base itself.  Whether whole spices are used in the gravy, and we've all found them in our curries ,  or are prominent ingredients in a hand made "chef's special" garam masala, as suggested by ifindforu the use of Jalpur (or  another brand but with the chef adding spices to get that similar smell) is what we now need to confirm.  How many of threads based on real kitchen observations make reference to chef's special mix powder / garam masala?  Quite a few. Looking forward hearing of the work you're going to do in this area.  Could we have such a significant breakthrough so early in 2012?

CH, this is  a massive leap forward for me at least and has given me a definate direction to follow,I just couldn't work out how our local T/A could produce such a savoury flavour but with only light spicing  I went the 'add more and more spice mix ' root but that was a disaster and made a sickly cow pat of a curry 
Last nights curry was an absolute winner even the Mrs agreed it was the best curry I have made and she will tell you as it is 

[Razor]

Hi emin-j,

Sounds like you're having much success and fun with this experiment.

I alluded in another thread that I would like to go on a bit of a spice journey myself but my thinking was more along the lines of, grind whole spices that form my own 'mixed powder'  so, coriander seeds, cumin seeds, methi seeds and so on, and then pitch two simple curries against each other using my fresh mixed powder v my off the self mixed powders.

I'm also toying with the idea of a home made GM, too as it does form a part of my own mixed powder.

Like you, some time back, I went with increasing the amount of mixed powder that I was putting in, and your 'sickly cow pat' describes exactly what I was getting too.  I've now gone in the opposite direction, and reduced the amount of mixed powder and gg paste, and the results are excellent.  I really think that it's a case of 'less is more' when it comes to this curry malarkey..!

Good luck with this mate, and looking forward to seeing how this develops.

Ray

[curryhell]

97% now then ;D.  Well done emin-j.  You confirmed my suspicions at least about the inclusion of those particular whole spices.  It's just "in what form".  I'll try this with some base next time i make a curry before i extend it to the base itself.  Whether whole spices are used in the gravy, and we've all found them in our curries ,  or are prominent ingredients in a hand made "chef's special" garam masala, as suggested by ifindforu the use of Jalpur (or  another brand but with the chef adding spices to get that similar smell) is what we now need to confirm.  How many of threads based on real kitchen observations make reference to chef's special mix powder / garam masala?  Quite a few. Looking forward hearing of the work you're going to do in this area.  Could we have such a significant breakthrough so early in 2012?

CH, this is  a massive leap forward for me at least and has given me a definate direction to follow,I just couldn't work out how our local T/A could produce such a savoury flavour but with only light spicing  I went the 'add more and more spice mix ' root but that was a disaster and made a sickly cow pat of a curry 
Last nights curry was an absolute winner even the Mrs agreed it was the best curry I have made and she will tell you as it is 

That is significant emin-j .  There has always been talk of a match of spicing to base and i think you've hit the nail on the head.  It isn't so much a matter of "this spice goes with this base which goes only with these recipes".  Basically, it's about achieving the balance between the spice mix versus the gravy.  The scales obviously tipped too far in one direction with you adding more and more mix powder .  But you now know this and it is a learning for us all (well many anyway ).  Now you have the "balance", all (  ;D ) you have to do is tweak the blending of spices , beit the mix powder itself, the use of your own or an adapted garam masala or the use of whole spices.  Well done mate.  I think you've given us all something to think about

[curryhell]

I've now gone in the opposite direction, and reduced the amount of mixed powder and gg paste, and the results are excellent.

I have started to do this lately as well Ray, particularly with the tomato paste and also in the garlic/ginger puree area, prefering to add fresh sliced garlic

I really think that it's a case of 'less is more' when it comes to this curry malarkey..!

I think you may have something here

[spiceyokooko]

There's a number of ways that the flavours from whole spices can be included in the final dish and I think a lot of BIR's do it via the precooking of the meat or principal ingredient. There's a number of 'pre-cook' recipes on here that include whole spices in them.

For me personally, I still have a bit of a problem with the term Garam Masala and the way it is now being used on here, it's starting to morph into something completely different and I know this has been discussed before, but it seems to keep coming up.

So now we've got the term Chef's Special Garam Masala to contend with. At what point does a Garam Masala stop being a Garam Masala and start being a Chef's Special Garam Masala? And how does that Spice Mix differ from any other Spice Mix if we don't know what the ingredients are?

There's some confusion here (and in my mind) of precisely what a Garam Masala is and what a Spice Mix is and the two terms now seem to be almost interchangeable. As far as I'm concerned, a Garam Masala is defined by it's principal ingredients and how it's used, but that doesn't appear to be the case any more

[spiceyokooko]

There has always been talk of a match of spicing to base and i think you've hit the nail on the head.  It isn't so much a matter of "this spice goes with this base which goes only with these recipes".  Basically, it's about achieving the balance between the spice mix versus the gravy.

 

I find these statements contradict each other.

Base gravy's are and should be matched to their respective spice mix's which should also be matched to the recipes that go with them. All three of them work together in balance - that's where the balance you refer to comes from.

If you take one persons base gravy and make it with another persons spice mix and make that with someone else's recipe, how can there be any balance (or understanding) in the ingredients and level of spicing used? And just as importantly how do you adjust the spicing from one dish to another?

[curryhell]

There's a number of ways that the flavours from whole spices can be included in the final dish and I think a lot of BIR's do it via the precooking of the meat or principal ingredient. There's a number of 'pre-cook' recipes on here that include whole spices in them.

For me personally, I still have a bit of a problem with the term Garam Masala and the way it is now being used on here, it's starting to morph into something completely different and I know this has been discussed before, but it seems to keep coming up.

So now we've got the term Chef's Special Garam Masala to contend with. At what point does a Garam Masala stop being a Garam Masala and start being a Chef's Special Garam Masala? And how does that Spice Mix differ from any other Spice Mix if we don't know what the ingredients are?

There's some confusion here (and in my mind) of precisely what a Garam Masala is and what a Spice Mix is and the two terms now seem to be almost interchangeable. As far as I'm concerned, a Garam Masala is defined by it's principal ingredients and how it's used, but that doesn't appear to be the case any more

Rather than start the whole garam masala debate again and send this thread of the rails may I suggest we take this discussion to a more appropriate area.  I will be more than happy to continue the debate there and give you my take on the observations above.

[ELW]

...by tasting it?

[emin-j]

There's a number of ways that the flavours from whole spices can be included in the final dish and I think a lot of BIR's do it via the precooking of the meat or principal ingredient. There's a number of 'pre-cook' recipes on here that include whole spices in them.

For me personally, I still have a bit of a problem with the term Garam Masala and the way it is now being used on here, it's starting to morph into something completely different and I know this has been discussed before, but it seems to keep coming up.

So now we've got the term Chef's Special Garam Masala to contend with. At what point does a Garam Masala stop being a Garam Masala and start being a Chef's Special Garam Masala? And how does that Spice Mix differ from any other Spice Mix if we don't know what the ingredients are?

There's some confusion here (and in my mind) of precisely what a Garam Masala is and what a Spice Mix is and the two terms now seem to be almost interchangeable. As far as I'm concerned, a Garam Masala is defined by it's principal ingredients and how it's used, but that doesn't appear to be the case any more

spicey, the term ' Chef's special' refers  to in this case a Garam Masala made up by the Chef himself,whether he roasts the whole spices and then grinds or from experience knows the better quality pre ground GM I don't know and spice mixes are generally differing amounts of the same spices,cumin,coriander,turmeric,curry powder,paprika,and sometimes a small amount of GM but it is Garam Masala that has all the  fragrant aromatic spices such as cardamom,cloves,bay,etc and it was these that gave me that wonderful savoury flavour.