Topic: Cooking Lessons with Az

[ELW]

Salt, that's a very interesting point... I too believe this is critical for the right balance.

I used the Ashoka base in my singed AZ method curries and it definately was BIR spec (I'm a glasgow curry lover). The ashoka base has LOTS of salt... in fact I reduce the amount of salt in the base by 25% as I find it too much in the final dish.

Therefore with no added salt to the final dish, maybe this make this combo works that little bit better. It definately works for me and my experiments going forwards will be about  tweaking mix powders/garamasalas.

Good to hear you've had results Jeera, slightly off topic, but regarding salt. I did a side by side a while back with my own Chinese curry sauce & one of my local's. The salt level in the t/a could have sent me to coronary care, it was unbelievable , whether it was from salt or the salt in the msg, I don't know, but salty it was.....sisde by sides are great, but can be a real eye opener

ELW

[curryhell]

@ Jeera
Will be needing some mix powder shortly so will make up Az's with his own garam masala.  Providing the singeing bit is done correctly i would expect the results to be good.
@ELW.
I totally agree.  The smell and the taste are made during those first crucial couple of minutes.  Get it wrong then and you end up with a homemade curry.  LIKE I JUST HAVE 
However, i little wiser that i was, there are learings from this. I did make the mistake of introducing the spice to the pan and singeing it without the tomato paste.  Of course when i realised i was straight in with the paste and a very quick stir and in with the gravy.  I went in to panic mode when i realised that i'd omitted the paste with the spice mix and chilli powder .
The singeing of the spice was fine. It wasn't burnt. If i'd have left it a fraction longer, it would have been.  What i failed to do was add the tomato paste and complete the singeing before adding the gravy to fuse everything.  I think ELW said a fusion takes place between the spice, paste and the gravy. From this comes not only the smell but the taste.  I couldn't agree more.  Without that fusion at temperature the ingredients in the pan remain individuals and do not become that "whole" that creates the BIR experience we all crave.  I know understand why Az's vindaloo will produce a different flavour from the phall.  The spice is singed creating a flavour and then signed further with the paste therefore changing the flavour before being fused with the gravy to create the flavour that will dominate the finished dish, excluding additonal flavour additives.  This certainly has given me something to think about.  First time my kitchen hasn't smelt like a BIR since last Sunday week .  But i'll be wiser the next time i fire up the cooker ;D  Glad your singeing is going well ELW
EDIT - I forgot to mention how i knew i'd singed the chilli correctly and not burnt it.  I did the add water bit and test the heat of the sauce.  I only added 3/4 level chef's spoon and WOW, was that hot or what .  Hotter than when i cooked the phall and it was only ordinary chilli powder   And no burnt taste which would have been very obvious I am already looking forward to the next singeing session :

[Salvador Dhali]

I did make the mistake of introducing the spice to the pan and singeing it without the tomato paste.  Of course when i realised i was straight in with the paste and a very quick stir and in with the gravy.  I went in to panic mode when i realised that i'd omitted the paste with the spice mix and chilli powder .

Are you cooking on a big gas burner or electric hob, curryhell? I ask, because when using my (ceramic) hob, which takes longer to get up to (and maintain) high heat, I tend to add the tomato paste after I put the spices in and bring them up to temp. Otherwise I find that the addition of cold tomato paste brings the pan temp down and makes it harder to get that essential 'singeing'. Once the spices are foaming nicely in goes the tom paste.

When using my gas burner outside I wouldn't dare do this. The tom paste goes in straight after the garlic/ginger paste has attained the right colour, followed by the spices, otherwise it would be bin time every session.

I guess it's different for everyone depending on what equipment they're using, which I'm sure is one of the contributing factors to our varying levels of success at home.

I remember someone describing cooking as nothing more than the application of controlled heat to plant and animal matter.

There's no doubting that "controlled heat" plays a crucial role in BIR, but boy, learning to control it consistently ain't easy, and that's a fact...

[Wickerman]

@curryhell.
 So you  normally add the tom paste and spices at the same time and then set about singeing?
I've been reading other posts on here that state:''adding the spices first for the initial  singe, then in with the tom paste, quick stir and then quench with gravy.
I know everyone has their own way of doing things,but i'm a little confused,
i'm sure reading back,ELW said the only way he can achieve that bir taste is to first add the spices ,singe,then add tom paste,stir,then gravy.

I'm very confused

[curryhell]

@curryhell.
 So you  normally add the tom paste and spices at the same time and then set about singeing?
I've been reading other posts on here that state:''adding the spices first for the initial  singe, then in with the tom paste, quick stir and then quench with gravy.
I know everyone has their own way of doing things,but i'm a little confused,
i'm sure reading back,ELW said the only way he can achieve that bir taste is to first add the spices ,singe,then add tom paste,stir,then gravy.

I'm very confused

Don't be mate.  If you look at the video of me doing my phall, paste goes in with the spices.  If you look at the vid of Solarsplace doing the vindaloo, its the same sequence as ELW uses.  Both will achieve singeing but the flavours will be different.  Hope this puts your mind at rest

[curryhell]

Are you cooking on a big gas burner or electric hob, curryhell? I ask, because when using my (ceramic) hob, which takes longer to get up to (and maintain) high heat, I tend to add the tomato paste after I put the spices in and bring them up to temp. Otherwise I find that the addition of cold tomato paste brings the pan temp down and makes it harder to get that essential 'singeing'. Once the spices are foaming nicely in goes the tom paste.

I'm cooking on a conventional electric hob.  The singeing can be done with the spices alone and further when adding the puree before adding the gravy.  Boil the water away in the puree and you'll end up singeing the paste and spice again  which is what happens in Solarplaces vindaloo video;D.  In the phall video the singeing is done with spice and puree together.  Liquid in the paste evaporated, singed and then quenched.  Each method must produce a different flavour which i nearly got to try out tonight if only i'd have been brave enough on the second singe of the tomato and singed spices

I guess it's different for everyone depending on what equipment they're using, which I'm sure is one of the contributing factors to our varying levels of success at home.

this is so true.  We all have a different cooking environment.  We need to tweak things / timings a little to suit this.  Again, its all about the amount of practice one gets.

I remember someone describing cooking as nothing more than the application of controlled heat to plant and animal matter.

Yes, it's as simple as that ;D ;D - i wish :

There's no doubting that "controlled heat" plays a crucial role in BIR, but boy, learning to control it consistently ain't easy, and that's a fact...

The secret  ;D ;D

[Micky Tikka]

great thread . this could on for another 20 pages I hope . I think it depends on what heat your cooking at  and the timing.  And of course singeing so trail and error . So a big pot of gravey,spices and a bin start from burnt and work your way down  . thats my plan             

[curryhell]

great thread . this could on for another 20 pages I hope . I think it depends on what heat your cooking at  and the timing.  And of course singeing so trail and error . So a big pot of gravey,spices and a bin start from burnt and work your way down  . thats my plan             

Your'e a quick learner Michael.  You've learnt in one day what some of us have been trying to crack for 20 plus years ;D ;D  It took this thread to make many realise in spite of it already having been mentioned .   Some of us are just naturally slow .  It's not about the heat you cook at.  That will govern how quickly your dish is cooked.   Singeing will occur at a specific temperature.  On a low heat it may take 3 mins for it to happen.  On  a high temp obviously it will happen a lot quicker.  Decide on your heat settings and stick with them.  Then just practice.  If you vary the temps there'll  be more going in the bin as you keep introducing a variable.  Set your stall out, decide on what's going in the pan, I would suggest adding spice and tomato paste together, decide on the temperature and then it's all about getting the timing right which requires being brave.  Good luck.  Keep us posted on your results.

[Wickerman]

Thanks Curryhell.
I will be giving this bash over the weekend.
I just got a little confused with your earlier post where you inadvertently tried the' spice first' approach and said it lacked that bir taste.
As you've now gone on and explained - if you're were a little braver with the tom paste second singe it may have exploded into bir.
I think i need a lie down 

[Whandsy]

Just been looking through some dipurajas videos on youtube and interestingly on the biriani video when he adds mixed powder before adding the rice he says "make sure you burn the spices"

Wish this was emphasised years ago

Can't wait to cook later, might work backwards and go for a overburn 1st to try and spot when its taken too far!

W