Topic: India Raj - North Town Aldershot - Curry Sauce

[Peripatetic Phil]

Phil i really have to disagree. i purchased her original book and made many curries, none came close to bir. in fact they tasted rather odd.

OK, here our experiences differ, Derek : I made her base, I made her Chicken Curry (at Madras strength), and I found the results so infinitely superior to anything I had achieved previously that I was hooked.  But of course I didn't just re-do that same recipe time after time; almost immediately I doubled the volume of base per unit of chicken, and doubled the quantity of spices per unit of base, and later eliminated the garam masala and introduced chopped coriander stalks : the result is what I call Chicken Madras KD1/PT.  I really would appreciate it if you would try this recipe when you feel so inclined and then let me know what you think.

Even the kd base needs modifying to become acceptable. 

There I definitely disagree, although recent experiments are beginning to suggest that the quantity of tomato can be reduced

Explain what you mean by punjabi heritage? do you mean cooking knowlege ?

Yes, she learned to cook at her mother's knee, as do many of us, and by the age of 12 she was frequently cooking for her entire family. [1]

where is the evidence of this cookery knowledge kris has from this heritage?

I don't have evidence : I simply have a belief that if one is raised in (say) a Punjabi culture, and learns to cook Punjabi food from an early age, one will automatically have a head start on anyone from (say) a European culture who tries to learn Punjabi cooking later in life.

** Phil.

[1] http://www.thecurrysecret.co.uk/About kris Dhillon/

[Peripatetic Phil]

A big problem with the KD1 book is the use of her garam masala as the main spice mix for most of the curries.

Yes, but she also provides her own recipe for garam masala : how many of us can, in all honesty, say that we made her garam masala for use with her recipes ?  I cannot : I had generic garam masala in my spice cupboard, and I used that (and later rejected it as not adding anything beneficial).

I don't think you would ever get close to BIR if you followed her recipes to the letter.

As I said in my preceding reply, I got closer to BIR by reading and following The Curry Secret than I had previously managed in over thirty years of trying.  If this forum had existed at that time, I might have achieved comparable (or even better) results using the combined wisdom to be found here : who knows ?

** Phil.

[PaulP]

Hi Phil,

I bought the KD1 book just before I discovered this forum. In all honesty I have never made a KD1 recipe but one look at the garam masala recipe was enough to make me think it was a bad idea.

My first foray into BIR cooking was when I made the SnS June 2008 base and had a brief eureka moment. Like others I had tried on and off over 20 years to cook something like you get in a BIR.

Cheers,

Paul

[Peripatetic Phil]

In all honesty I have never made a KD1 recipe but one look at the garam masala recipe was enough to make me think it was a bad idea.

Well, I have it in front of me as I write (from the 1989 edition) :

• 1 tablespoon coriander seeds
• 1 tablespoon cumin
• 1 teaspoon green cardamoms
• 1 teaspoon cloves
• 1 teaspoon black peppercorns
• 2 sticks cinnamon
• 2 bay leaves
• 1/2 small nutmeg
• 4 black cardamom

Now I don't claim to be an expert on garam marala recipes, but I can see nothing in this that would seem exceptionable, nor does it appear to differ significantly from the garam masala recipes that have been posted here : what is it about Kris's recipe that puts you off, Paul ?

** Phil.

[PaulP]

Hi Phil,

I think a lot of the BIR taste is from spice mixes containing predominantly: Turmeric, corriander powder, cumin powder, some commercial curry powder, maybe some paprika, maybe ginger powder and maybe garlic powder.

I can't see this being replaced with a powder that contains significant amounts of clove, cardamom (both green and black) and nutmeg.

I've got all the ingredients to make the KD1 garam masala so maybe one day I'll make some up but as the primary spice mix in a curry I can't see this working for me.

Cheers,

Paul

[Peripatetic Phil]

I think a lot of the BIR taste is from spice mixes containing predominantly: Turmeric, corriander powder, cumin powder, some commercial curry powder, maybe some paprika, maybe ginger powder and maybe garlic powder.

I can't see this being replaced with a powder that contains significant amounts of clove, cardamom (both green and black) and nutmeg.

I've got all the ingredients to make the KD1 garam masala so maybe one day I'll make some up but as the primary spice mix in a curry I can't see this working for me.

Hallo Paul : there is definitely some confusion going on here !  Garam masala, whether Kris Dhillion's or anyone else's, is not intended to be "the primary spice mix in a curry"; it is a trace ingredient, added when all cooking has finished, to add a certain "something" to the finished dish.  The primary spice mix would, in my experience, contain chilli, cumin and fenugreek, with perhaps turmeric and paprika creeping in via the base.  For a richer, fuller, flavour, I would replace the chilli with Bassar curry masala, which is totally unlike any garam masala I have ever seen.  Does this help to explain things ?

** Phil.

[PaulP]

Hi Phil, I'm at work so I can't pick up the book right now. From memory I recall that a lot of the KD1 curry recipes seemed to use the GM above any other spice ingredients.
I'll have a look when I get home later.

I know other Cr0 members have commented on replacing the GM with a "normal" BIR spice mix to achieve something more akin to BIR flavours with reference to KD1.

Yes I know how GM is normally meant to be used and like a lot of other Cr0 members I've become wary of it through past cooking experience.

Paul

[Derek Dansak]

Paul i totally agree with your comments on the predominent spices for bir cookery. garam masalla is just not that key to bir cooking. In fact i think i could happliy produce most of my favourite bir dishes with virtually none of the garam spices if i was forced to.
   thats not to say i dont use cardoman, clove, cinemon, dried mint, and other garam masalla spices, but i use up far less of these than i do tumeric, cumin, coriender, paprika, etc. 

I watched a bir chef produce around 50 dishes over a few weeks of obsrvations. Basically i noticed tumeric is used more than we realise in many dishes. they use huge amounts of spice mix as well (tumeric, coriander, cumin paprika ). but gm was only used in veg dishes. 
The kris dillon gm isnt even that great. i prefer the pat chapman gm anyday. that works so well in ashoka pre cooked lamb. you guys should try it

 

[Derek Dansak]

Guys try my jalfrezzi post for kd1 base. I would advise any member who uses kd1 base to try this, its very tasty and i make it often.  I posted it in main dishes section under jalfrezi (obviously !!) cheers DD

[JerryM]

just for additional info have attached link to real BIR base sample that i was given by my local TA. they took it out of the pot in front of my eyes - it is 100% what they use to cook with.

for anyone who is still uncertain about base and serious about what they want to achieve then they really must try and get a sample themselves. it was a key learning point for myself. most bases on the site don't produce this result.

the colour looks very similar to solarplace's sample.

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3607.msg32420#msg32420

copy of pic: