Topic: Spiced oil Madras.

[Razor]

Hi SS,

Am I wrong in thinking that the only difference between Madras, Vindaloo and Phall is the quantity of chilli powder used, and I dont mean like the traditional vindaloo which uses vinegar and potato?

Also, has anyone tried substituting sugar for clear honey.  I do at the "adding the spice stage" and it really helps in getting that toffee aroma and just seems to give the dish a nicer sweetness than sugar!

Ray

[Stephen Lindsay]

Razor

As far as I understand that is the case, and if you check out Bruce Edwards' article Curry House Cookery, you'll get a bit more info. Some BIR Vindaloos add in potato but that's not do do with the spicing.

I don't know what other members think but I've found that Scottish BIRs use more spicing than English ones, so for example our Madras is stronger, i.e. nearer to Vindaloo level of spicing than you might find in England.

I think, like all cookery, even BIR has regional variations and customs.

[Razor]

Hi Stephen,

Totally agree, there are definately regional variances.  I think that's where most of the debates arise from on this site, one mans tater hash, is another mans pan of scouse lol.

Just the history of the BIR throws up quite a debate.  The brummies will claim it was there that it was popularised, Glaswegians will no doubt claim like wise.  I know here in Manchester, the Rusholme BIR's will tell you that it was them that kicked it off in the early days!  All adds to some great debate!

Ray

[JerryM]

Razor,

madras, vindaloo and phall (to a lesser extent - it's quite close to vindaloo) are very different - too much to just be accounted for by chilli. i've only really felt we have madras recipes on the site. i've not come across a proper vindaloo (as per BIR) - it must be a dark colour and probably made with vinegar. i have it on my mind at some point to use the ashoka south indian garlic sauce as a foundation for sort of merging with CA's vindaloo (best i've come across).

on the sugar/honey. i don't use sugar at all. i do use honey in butter chicken and it is well underrated as a BIR ingredient.

[chinois]

Also, has anyone tried substituting sugar for clear honey.  I do at the "adding the spice stage" and it really helps in getting that toffee aroma and just seems to give the dish a nicer sweetness than sugar!

Ray

I havent tried that but can imagine it works well. I was told to use golden syrup for chinese cooking by a cantonese chef in England and it works well. Better than honey in my opinion because the taste is less obvious.

[Razor]

Hi Jerry,

madras, vindaloo and phall (to a lesser extent - it's quite close to vindaloo) are very different - too much to just be accounted for by chilli.

I think you are probably correct with regards to Madras, Vindaloo & Phall these day's.  I guess I'm still stuck in the 80's when a curry was only eaten after a couple of gallons of beer ;D

With that said, the chef from the Kushi book does suggest that this is the case.  Wether or not he is really revealing is restaurant secrets, or just selling his book, he only knows!

Ray

[Razor]

Hi Chinois,

I havent tried that but can imagine it works well. I was told to use golden syrup for chinese cooking by a cantonese chef in England and it works well. Better than honey in my opinion because the taste is less obvious.

It does work well IMO and with regards to the taste, you don't really taste the honey, it just adds a sweetness that isn't sugar if that makes any sense?  The one thing that was missing from my curries was a certain sweetness that I wasn't achieving by using sugar, honey took me closer to "that taste" lol

Ray

[JerryM]

Razor,

i've sort of still got my heart in the 80's as this was a time when we frequented BIR's.

i feel things are starting to get more dumbed down in terms of hotness. friends who would never contemplate a vindaloo hot are now eating it regular. when u taste it u know it's just not vindaloo but u can't tell anyone that.

all the best. i do have it on my list to get to an old style vindaloo but have a few urgent recipes 1st (sylheti and bahar). CA's vindaloo does get u very close as long a u close u're eyes.

[Secret Santa]

madras, vindaloo and phall (to a lesser extent - it's quite close to vindaloo) are very different - too much to just be accounted for by chilli.

That certainly matches my experience Jerry. I would have been offended in my curry eating hayday if the only difference were the number of tsps of chilli they added to make the difference. No, it used to be a very definite change of spicing and different amounts of tomato puree. And definitely not a hint of any sourness by the addition of vinegar or lemon juice to any of them.

[Razor]

Just read this on another website.  You guys have probably heard this before but an interesting read nonetheless, especially for a novice like meself

VINDALOO
The widespread belief is that Vindaloo owes its origins to Portugese colonial India, where it was traditionally a Potato, Pork and Vinegar curry from Goa. I suspect Vin related to Wine or Vinegar and Aloo is Indian for Potato. In Indian restaurants today, the term Vindaloo is really indicative of the strength or heat of the curry. It usually has diced potatoes in the sauce along with the chosen meat or chicken. However, I can?t ever remember seeing pork as an option. I wonder why? Vindaloo is ?hotter? than a Madras.

However, more informed opinion shared with me states tha Vindaloo originated from Vindalho which is derived from vinho or wine (vin is French so that is not the right word) and alho which is garlic. Not aloo as no one spoke Hindi in Goa during the Portuguese regime. Potatoes are added to alleviate the piquancy of the dish. A lot of vinegar was used so people say the VIN could have come from vinagre. But even so the local wine or feni is still added in a good vindalho which is always made of Pork. Other vindalhos appeared on the scene because Hindu and Muslims do not eat pork.

Interesting I think!

Ray