Hi Stew, yes i am going to pursue this propely. so they know what we want, and we dont get disappointed. the problem is this: we are all so close to the taste that they may find it hard to know what to teach. after all, i have had quite alot of teaching from them already, and it seems that they dont quite know what this taste is themselves. even though they can reproduce it with ease. i will discuss it with them in the next week or 2 when I visit them again. the other problem is there english is only mid level, not perfect. but they seem very genuine, and have been helpful all for free so far. so offering them some real money can only improve that !! could be a winner. cheers