Topic: Pizza from scratch

[harley]

I've got the steel in place, 1/2 inch thick, was going to use cast iron but its harder to find anyone who cuts it.

Was my best pizza yet, very tasty, ate every bit of the crust. The dough wasn't floppy or soft/soggy, quite firm but didn't get the charring/darkening underneath as I would've hoped. Maybe have to try a different dough ratio, steel has definitely helped, also got a nice oven spring.

[JerryM]

harley,

the top heat appears a tad too much and suggest the hydration is not high enough - the minimum i use in my domestic oven is 63% (water as % of flour termed bakers percent).

pictures of pizza only go so far at describing pizza and yours defo looks good to eat to me.

the suggestion of top heat is quite a surprise given the use of steel i would have expected it the other way round ie the bottom cooked before the top and good omen for the steel.

[StoneCut]

I had another shot at Pizza at the weekend and prepared some dough for yesterday. Previously I was using a dough to be consumed the same day. This time I used this german site as a guideline:
http://www.perfekte-pizza.de/perfekter-pizzateig/

The method (and recipe) on that site is loosely based on Jeff Varasano's (http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm). It uses about 62.5& hydration and all-purpose flour (apparently german All-Purpose flour is very similar to Tipo 00).

The pizza turned out lovely with a nice crust but still very airy. No yeast flavour whatsoever. In fact, the whole place smelled like a proper Pizzeria when I came back from a little walk

However, I still have some questions for the Pizza "veterans":

My final dough was pretty sticky after taking it out of the fridge after 24 hours of resting. It would stretch really easily, but it was REALLY delicate (pick it up on one edge and it would streeeetch but never leave the table at the other end). Is that normal ?

Did I just not put enough flour on my dough balls when I packed them up or what ?

JerryM: Your picture "Ready to Shape" -> did you dust the dough ball with flour prior to taking that shot ?

Apart from that I like the method outlined on that page (make a thin "pancake dough", let it rest, then knead, then add remaining flour, rest, portion & then refrigerate). The results are excellent.

[JerryM]

have added better link to photo's - the description was not available in the previous link

http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii262/jerrym07/Pizza%20Make/?albumview=slideshow

Stonecut,

the "ready to shape" pic is the dough box with lid on out of the fridge for 2 hrs then lid taken off and photo taken ie no flour added only at balling stage. the revised link should help - say if need more explanation.

a guy (Scott123) moved my blinkers thankfully on "over fermented" dough. from jeff varasano in an effort to get more taste i ended up over fermenting dough without realising what over fermented is. it sounds just like what you had. the difference between it and what i call proper dough is that proper dough doesn't really pour out of the dough box - it's sort of plump. over fermented has hardly any springback if at all. you also tend to have problems not only transferring to the peel but on launching it down the peel - sticks.

the way i've attempted to prevent over ferment is to reduce the yeast - down to ~ 0.2%. the flavour that i was after i now realise is more easily achieved through sourdough.

i also think that the wetter the dough the faster it ferments and consequently needs less yeast.

plain flour has less protein and is more prone to over fermenting. i started out using plain flour then sort of moved to 50:50 with bread and now use 100% bread flour.

[harley]

Jerry, forgot to mention I did a 1min blast on the grill, ie the steel plate broiler method. I do like the top of the pizza well done with pepperoni edges burnt a little. I need to get some smaller pepperoni slices, the ones from tesco I have now I rip in half because they're so large. I seen some good smaller ones in Asda.

Your pizza looks good to me though needs a little more browning on top. Underneath looks great and nice looking pizza overall.

My new dough mix is done in the Lehmann calculator. Will be ready tomorrow

Flour (100%): Water (63%): ADY (0.75%): Salt (1.75%): Oil (1%): Sugar (1%): Total (167.5%): Single Ball:

673.96 g  |  23.77 oz | 1.49 lbs 424.6 g  |  14.98 oz | 0.94 lbs 5.05 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.34 tsp | 0.45 tbsp 11.79 g | 0.42 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.11 tsp | 0.7 tbsp 6.74 g | 0.24 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp 6.74 g | 0.24 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.69 tsp | 0.56 tbsp 1128.89 g | 39.82 oz | 2.49 lbs | TF = 0.1 376.3 g | 13.27 oz | 0.83 lbs

My previous doughs from were done by using by peoples recipes done in teaspoons, measuring water, and bit of guess work, with no hydration info.

Hopefully my new mix will address the lack of browning underneath and also my previous doughs always sprung back and quite difficult to stretch.

I started out with allisons strong bread flour, protein 12.1%. I noticed this time they had very strong bread flour 13.9% protein so I grabbed that and used it today. Maybe more protein will make it stronger, less springy. They recommend 13/14%.

[StoneCut]

JerryM: Many thanks for the updated descriptions on the pics and your feedback!

I don't really think I overfermented the dough - I think I simply had too small containers so the dough started to "sweat". I had some dough left over yesterday which I had stashed in a bigger box. And while it stuck to the box quite a bit the dough, it was a pleasure to work with. Again, it produced an excellent tasting pizza (see pics attached).

I use a 1/4 cube of fresh yeast per 1kg of flour for my recipe, I think that's about 10g of yeast per 1000g of flour (or 1%). I might need to experiment with using even less yeast after reading your post, though.

All-Purpose flour is classed differently in Germany. Our flour is categorized by mineral content and not protein as in Italy. An all-purpose flour ("405") has roughly the same mineral content as Tipo 00. Also the protein content is set at 11%, which resembles "tipo 0" ("tipo 00" has only 9% protein content). That's a pretty close match for a really cheap flour. It's really no wonder that you'll see Italians buy big bags of "405" All-Purpose Flour for their Pizzerias here. It's only about 1/3 of the cost ...

See some pics from yesterday's Pizza run (before you complain: I don't like my Pizza very dark when made in a conventional oven as opposed to a wood oven).

[StoneCut]

Just for laughs: I stumbled over an EU regulation note for "Pizza Napoletana". It actually includes a recipes, too:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2008:040:0017:0025:EN:PDF

Regulation madness

[Naga]

...Regulation madness

I'm astounded! Job creation at it's most ingenious! 

[JerryM]

harley,

you're right - i love a tad more top heat. on my wfo it's the otherway round too.

recipe looks spot on. i've recently switched from brown sugar to honey - might be worth a try.

i use the aldi spanish chorizo with sliced banana - well worth a go. the asda peperoni is good.

stonecut,

the dough pretty much always sticks to the dough box for me too. bigger boxes do seem better for me too.

the air bubbles do look good indicating the flour is good - quite a surprise there is such a difference in something with the same description - our all purpose is defo very low on the bread scale. it does produce a much softer pizza though and the mix of bread flour and all purpose a sort of compromise.

[harley]

Had a real turning point today.

My previous attempt with my new dough yielded a slight browning underneath, like a fine tuning of the dough but still a long bake and only slightly improved, not looking to great for the steal I thought. I moved my steel near the top of the lower oven without the grill at 490f in hope of some increased heat but not expecting much and boom the pizza just explodes into life. After just a few minutes the bottom is nicely charred with the dough soft airy on the inside. The oven spring was incredible and I was scrambling to move the pizza under the grill it all happened so fast.

Don't know how long it took exactly. Easily my best tasting yet. I was starting to think these quick bakes at home were an exaggeration.