FED UP

[Secret Santa]

You get into a very subjective area once you try and decide who and what to censor beyond that. I see such moderation as worse than letting it go. I hate forums which are over-moderated.

I couldn't agree more George but you're fighting a losing battle (if it's a fight at all). Let's hope Stew keeps the forum as open as it has been since the start - it's one of its main strengths.

[George]

Geo...your thoughts please on why exactly you would delete this whole thread....utterly bemusing.

I fear you may be reading too much into my comment about deleting this entire thread.

My main point is that I don't want to delete anything beyond the three specific areas I mentioned before. I just used this thread as an example, and it goes to show that we'd never all agree, which is why it's a very bad idea, in my opinion.

I like the idea in principle of 'nipping issues in the bud' as mentioned by someone earlier. But it's probably easier said than done on this forum. So, for anyone who'd like much stricter moderation, please give specific examples of recent threads where you'd have stepped in to 'nip' some aspect in the bud. Trouble must start somewhere. Which specific post would you have modified or deleted, and why? Let's see how many of us agree.

[rallim]

Personally I think we all need to take a deep breath, count to ten (or one hundred) and remember or maybe adopt the attitude that we are all guests on Stew (the owner's) forum. He has given us and allowed us to use this fantastic site to discuss and share experiences regarding BIR cooking and that being a guest and participating in the forum (if you wish to) is a privilege that he has allowed us and therefore we should show him, his forum and other users respect and behave accordingly.

Friendly ribbing and a bit of banter is good, and I'm all for intelligent debate as it helps members feel part of a community pulling together towards the same goal. I also feel in, my opinion, the key to effective forum moderation is the laissez-faire approach and editing posts or accounts should be used as a last resort.
However, some are under the misapprehension or they have the erroneous belief that they're entitled to unbridled free speech and this often leads to inappropriate behaviour, arguments (not intelligent debates) and can subject other forum users to personal attacks and this needs to be addressed!!!  It is disruptive to the other users and distracts from what the main objective is, it's on-line bullying and it's disrespectful to Stew and other users! 

We all need to show each other some common courtesy and take other people's feelings into consideration before posting comments that might be hurtful, derogatory, disrespectful, or just blatantly argumentative. 

I'm not going to get involved in stating posts as examples as I am not a moderator and might start another heated discussion or be considered antagonistic, but these are some examples what I think qualifies as personal attacks (some might disagree).

Insulting another member
Belittling another member
Ridiculing another member
Derogatory comments to another member
Vulgar, obscene, or otherwise objectionable comments to another member
Questioning in an insincere manner
Deliberately annoying or irritating another member

Just my tuppence worth and the end of it for me.
Regards

[curryhell]

Personally I think we all need to take a deep breath, count to ten (or one hundred) and remember or maybe adopt the attitude that we are all guests on Stew (the owner's) forum. He has given us and allowed us to use this fantastic site to discuss and share experiences regarding BIR cooking and that being a guest and participating in the forum (if you wish to) is a privilege that he has allowed us and therefore we should show him, his forum and other users respect and behave accordingly.

Friendly ribbing and a bit of banter is good, and I'm all for intelligent debate as it helps members feel part of a community pulling together towards the same goal. I also feel in, my opinion, the key to effective forum moderation is the laissez-faire approach and editing posts or accounts should be used as a last resort.
However, some are under the misapprehension or they have the erroneous belief that they're entitled to unbridled free speech and this often leads to inappropriate behaviour, arguments (not intelligent debates) and can subject other forum users to personal attacks and this needs to be addressed!!!  It is disruptive to the other users and distracts from what the main objective is, it's on-line bullying and it's disrespectful to Stew and other users! 

We all need to show each other some common courtesy and take other people's feelings into consideration before posting comments that might be hurtful, derogatory, disrespectful, or just blatantly argumentative. 

I'm not going to get involved in stating posts as examples as I am not a moderator and might start another heated discussion or be considered antagonistic, but these are some examples what I think qualifies as personal attacks (some might disagree).

Insulting another member
Belittling another member
Ridiculing another member
Derogatory comments to another member
Vulgar, obscene, or otherwise objectionable comments to another member
Questioning in an insincere manner
Deliberately annoying or irritating another member

Just my tuppence worth and the end of it for me.
Regards

Rallim, I can't see many members disagreeing with your comments and observations.  I think you've summed it up quite succinctly.

[Secret Santa]

However, some are under the misapprehension or they have the erroneous belief that they're entitled to unbridled free speech and this often leads to inappropriate behaviour, arguments (not intelligent debates) and can subject other forum users to personal attacks and this needs to be addressed!!!  It is disruptive to the other users and distracts from what the main objective is, it's on-line bullying and it's disrespectful to Stew and other users!

To put the other side of the argument I'll repost what I wrote in another thread:

"There's a whole cadre of people on this forum who want to shut down any negativity, even the constructive kind. They want to turn the forum into a big curry group-hug. It sickens me frankly and goes against any notion of free speech. There are plenty of other forums that will pander to their liberal-lefty stance so why don't they avail themselves of those forums and leave this one with its major strength, i.e. that of minimal moderation."

[StoneCut]

This forum really is a mystery to me: There's a mod but he doesn't want to be mod (IMHO) because he feels that would be "policing" users and/or inhibit "free speech". Then there's an owner who set up (too lenient) forum guidelines but doesn't enforce them. Nor does the Mod enforce those for whatever reason. Then there are users who behave worse than at a footbal match with their rivals and there are people with egos as big as a skyscraper. But nothing is being done to make all these individuals work together instead of against each other.

Sorry, George, but this exactly is the role of a moderator (he "moderates") - at least in every other community I visit... (and I don't feel "policed" in either of them). You (as a Mod) do not need to "police" users but instead step in and give a quick "back on topic, gentlemen" or "I've deleted some replies that were off-topic and not constructive to finding the secrets of BIR - feel free to creare an extra thread in a different sub-section to discuss these matters". I'd rather have one of my own off-topic replies deleted instead of seeing bickering in every single thread I open lately. It is VERY tiring and it even goes as far as making people who signed up long ago but never posted before join in on this discussion (or just leave the forum).

All this should show you one thing: This forum is an excellent place for curry lovers and we love this place but the people that make up the community are not happy with the way things are going at all! None of them are! And: most want moderation but it isn't happening. So, please reconsider your own stance on this topic, or - alternatively - consider stepping down as Moderator and let someone do it who is not worried about "free speech" as much.

Please don't take this personally, George, but in your role as "mod". I fully understand your personal reasoning. IN MY OPINION, however, this is not the way to handle a community. I would like you to reflect for yourself whether your (non-)actions are really for the benefit of this community after all.

To close this monologue: Personally, I'm fairly glad that true "free speech" only exists in designated areas of our world (say, "Speaker's Corner"). I'm glad no Neonazi is allowed to rummage my home streets shouting old Nazi-Songs, denying any concentration camps, insulting non-blonde girls and all that other crap all in the name of "free speech". Rules were created to prevent this sort of thing while still allowing one to say one's mind about other things (in **moderation**). I like these rules, am I against "freedom" now ?

[Secret Santa]

I like these rules, am I against "freedom" now ?

Yes you are. And you're just the sort of down-at-heel lapdog that dictators drool over.

[StoneCut]

Aha, because I am of a different opinion than you? And how come the restricted "free speech" implemented in Germany is based on propositions made by Brits? And how come there's a speaker's corner if "free speech" is implemented everywhere in the UK? The UK does not have "free speech" per se - why should this forum do?

I think you live in an ideological dream world.

[Peripatetic Phil]

Please see :

https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11811

and vote (discussion also welcomed).

** Phil.

[Secret Santa]

Aha, because I am of a different opinion than you? And how come the restricted "free speech" implemented in Germany is based on propositions made by Brits? And how come there's a speaker's corner if "free speech" is implemented everywhere in the UK? The UK does not have "free speech" per se - why should this forum do?

I think you live in an ideological dream world.

What you fail to appreciate is that in your new, prissy, Utopianly-moderated forum, the above response wouldn't see the light of day. Well, it would, for the few minutes it would take for a mod to spot it and delete it.

Be careful of what you wish for, you may just get it!