Topic: How to achieve high cooking temperatures at home.

[spiceyokooko]

More /ad hominem/ attacks and use of totally unnecessary terms such as "cr@p".

And referring to someone else's opinion as nonsense is not ad hominem presumably?

If forum users don't want to receive fiery replies, perhaps they might themselves be a little more respectful of others opinions? I'm all for sensible, polite, respectful debate and discussion and I'm perfectly capable of conducting myself in that way.

But when someone wanders along and slings out an off the cuff remark that I'm talking ...more nonsense, I'm not going to respond particularly well. Debate the issues, yes, support your opinions with facts and research, yes, dismiss someones opinion with contempt as nonsense? No, that's not acceptable.

Is why CA left now becoming somewhat more apparent to you Phil?

[Peripatetic Phil]

More /ad hominem/ attacks and use of totally unnecessary terms such as "cr@p".

And referring to someone else's opinion as nonsense is not ad hominem presumably?

As I quite deliberately did not quote your reply, but replied to the thread in general, it should be clear that the reference to "/ad hominem/ attacks" was equally levied at all concerned; however, the reference to "cr@p" was quite specific.

If forum users don't want to receive fiery replies, perhaps they might themselves be a little more respectful of others opinions? I'm all for sensible, polite, respectful debate and discussion and I'm perfectly capable of conducting myself in that way.

But when someone wanders along and slings out an off the cuff remark that I'm talking ...more nonsense, I'm not going to respond particularly well. Debate the issues, yes, support your opinions with facts and research, yes, dismiss someones opinion with contempt as nonsense? No, that's not acceptable.

I completely agree : yet by responding as you did, you escalate the argument rather than return it to a more detached level.

Is why CA left now becoming somewhat more apparent to you Phil?

I don't personally give a t@ss why he left : I was simply delighted to note that the forum was, for quite a while, significantly more moderate in its tone (and an infinitely more welcoming place to visit) as a direct result.  I am just saddened that you now seem to find it necessary to adopt exactly the same style of argument that he latterly adopted.  Both of you are capable of far better.

** Phil.

[spiceyokooko]

I am just saddened that you now seem to find it necessary to adopt exactly the same style of argument that he latterly adopted.  Both of you are capable of far better.

And that will continue in the same vein as long as people on this forum continue to dismiss my opinions as nonsense.

I am entitled to my opinion, and I will express it regardless of whether people happen to agree with it or not.

That opinion carries no more weight than anyone else's, neither am I saying it is the right opinion, I do however, expect that opinion to be afforded the same respect and courtesy that I afford other peoples opinions whether or not I happen to agree with them.

I would also like to point out that whilst I am like minded to CA, I am not CA we are two entirely different people, I just happen to respect and admire his opinions and ability in cooking this style of food.

It's just a shame that yet another interesting thread has been wrecked and derailed into petty whinging when we should be discussing the merits or otherwise of the topic of the thread.

[commis]

Hi
I know this does not answer the high temperature question. Which would basically be get yourself a comercial burner. I note that an old friend of mine comented that early curry houses were just that and the food was cooked on domestic gas stoves.
Regards

[spiceyokooko]

I note that an old friend of mine comented that early curry houses were just that and the food was cooked on domestic gas stoves.

Which is nevertheless an important and interesting point to make.

This lends further belief to the view that old style BIR Indian food did taste and was produced differently to modern style BIR food, which will be of some use to those on the forum who are trying to replicate this old style flavour and taste.

Interesting indeed. This further supports my view that ingredients and techniques of yesteryear were quite different to those used now.

[jb]

'You need flames/high temperatures to achieve BIR food at home'

This,along with spiced oil has got to be two of most controversial subjects on this forum since I joined when the forum was launched.Granted there is a lot of footage available of chefs achieving high flames when cooking,but can true BIR food be made without a sheet of fire?

A couple of years ago I managed to get myself into the kitchen of a local take-away where I spent the whole evening observing the chef churning out a multitude of dishes from jalfrezis to bhunas,madras etc.I've had food from there a number of times and I know it's very nice,the point is at no time did he flame the pan,everything was cooked on a sensible heat.If he can do it I know it's perfectly achievable at home on a domestic hob.

 

[spiceyokooko]

...the point is at no time did he flame the pan,everything was cooked on a sensible heat.If he can do it I know it's perfectly achievable at home on a domestic hob.

How do you define sensible heat?

Have you looked at your average commercial gas burner and counted the number of gas jets on it and then compared that number to the ones on your hottest domestic kitchen gas burner? Commercial burners can be anything from 3, 4, 5, 6 times the heat output of domestic ones.

But this isn't just about temperature extremes, in other words it's not about the very highest heat output a commercial burner can produce over a domestic one, it's about the constant higher heat output a commercial one can produce. In other words, the ability to keep the contents of the pan at constant temperature to keep the contents cooking without cooling. Given the lower heat output of domestic gas burners they struggle even at their maximum settings to maintain a high temperature in the pan when cooler ingredients are added.

It's this that makes the difference, not the extreme temperatures.

[commis]

Hi
It's been muted for a while that BIR is not as good as it use to be. Could that correlate to the introduction of comercial practices and kit.
Regards

[Malc.]

My only comment to add to this debate, is that in the many many video's I have watched of BIR kitchens, I have not once seen the burner turned up as high as the picture above. I could be wrong but that is just my observations so far, granted that videos have been of differing quality.

I do however believe that the flambe will change the character of a dish but I don;t think it is going to stop a home cook on a domestic cooker achieving very good results.

If it was practical for me to have a commercial burner, I would. But that hasn;t stopped me producing good results.

Just my opinion of course.

[spiceyokooko]

Just my opinion of course.

And it's a perfectly valid one and raises some good points, that I agree with.

You can cook perfectly acceptable BIR dishes at home on domestic hobs that taste to a large part as if they have come from a BIR takeaway.

However, depending on how discerning you are with regards to your perception of flavour and taste they can lack that final n% that you get with BIR food. Many have described this as the final component in the BIR jigsaw that home cooked dishes lack and it's this smokey almost unami flavour and taste that they lack.

Some of us have conducted experiments on high output gas burners to try and achieve this final n% smokey flavour and the general concensus is that you can achieve it with a high output gas burner as used in the majority of BIR kitchens. CA and Jerry have documented this in the links I provided earlier.

But I just want to reiterate this point. You don't need high output gas burners to produce perfectly acceptable BIR food, you do if you want to achieve the full range of flavours achieved in BIR restaurants.

It all comes down to how discerning you are and whether you can taste that smokey flavour and how important it is for you to achieve it in your own dishes.

The photograph I included was an example to show just how many gas jets a typical high output gas burner has compared to a conventional domestic gas hob jet. I'm not suggesting that all BIR's use that particular type or at that heat level.