What When and Why

[JerryM]

Axe, spiceyokooko,

many thanks - your thoughts are definitely helping and appreciated.

to try and explain what i'm getting at better - in short best is what the best BIR's of today produce and how do i get there:

1) i've no real interest in the past other than leaning that can be used today.
2) so far i've had a pretty good idea on how to improve my curries and just got on with it
3) now is different i can produce some curries really well but a lot that i'd like to produce fall far short of expectations based on what's produced by the best BIR.
4) i have a few ideas on how to improve to close a new personal gap to those top notch BIR's
5) i feel i know enough of the what and when but feel well short on the why
7) finding the why will take some effort and i want to be sure there are no other better means

you're points are starting to close on the types of things on my mind and a sort of route map seems to be emerging:

a) look at current recipes for what it is that gives them their character
b) Remove spices and or ingredients which don't fit the base and add as part of final dish
c) look at more than 1 mix powder

aside on the old v the new

for me the old was pretty good the standard was very much the same across BIR land. today there are a lot of duffers yet some have really improved and produce this "best" curry. alas they are few and far between. the price that they charge is not a measure of the success in fact more than often than not the opposite.

i make 3 different bases currently and they all produce top notch results. asked how to explain the difference i can't other than it's like visiting a different BIR. i'm less convinced that i need more than 1 base particularly given the 5 off curries that currently excel are nothing like each other yet made from the same base and mix powder.

some further details on the fine detail i currently see:
1) lemon rind and juice (per above)
2) removing some veg from the base that don't enhance the taste of the oil
3) optimising base cooking time and spice timing and qty
4) trying out additional pastes
5) try out variants of the frying process

[spiceyokooko]

a) look at current recipes for what it is that gives them their character

That's pretty much where I would start from. Take Rogan Josh as a random example, I'd take a look at a very wide variety of traditional recipes for this dish and look closely at the common component parts of it, but I'd also look at the uncommon parts too as well as making a few of the dishes and tasting them and go from there. Unfortunately it's going to a long slow process!

...today there are a lot of duffers yet some have really improved and produce this "best" curry. alas they are few and far between. the price that they charge is not a measure of the success in fact more than often than not the opposite.

Indeed.

But that simply proves that some current BIR's have maintained their standards, they may be long running restaurants that have not adopted new ways of doing things, cut corners etc or they may simply have long standing experienced owner/chefs who control all the cooking.

Standards and quality in restaurants vary considerably across all sectors it's not just restricted to BIR's. You get good, bad and average restaurants serving up all variety of country cuisines.

Just because the vast majority of BIR's have adopted streamlined ways of doing things doesn't automatically mean they all have.

Let's face it, you can a good and bad Indian dish from the same restaurant depending on what time of the day or day of the week you've gone in to get it!

[PaulP]

I can't even seem to cook a curry as good as a bad TA on a bad day.

I haven't made much food with a base sauce lately but I enjoy a more traditional lamb keema based on a modified mamtaskitchen.com recipe.

Bit sad really but hey-ho.

[Malc.]

Other than what I have already commented on Jerry, I can only add that I would stick to using just one base out of the three you enjoy. Otherwise you risk having too many variables.

Perhaps it would be of benefit to list the dishes you feel you have mastered then list the dishes you are trying to master.

Also keep in mind that any changes you make to the base will also affect the dishes you have mastered.

[JerryM]

i'm cutting my forum time to the min to focus in on this. it's proving a challenge yet getting my grey cells going.

i'm working backwards through the process and have reached question no1 -

Q1 - What are the finishing ingredients (defined as Delicate or No cooking needed) - those that are added in say the last 1 min of cooking.

Lemon dressing, cream, honey, veg ghee/butter/marg, chutney (mango, chilli)

please add or delete to the list.

[Peripatetic Phil]

+:= Garam masala, coriander stems, coriander leaf.
-:= don't know, but I am could not assert any on your list with complete confidence.
** Phil.

[George]

would appreciate all thoughts on how you can jump from standard "good" BIR to best.

Discover or work out the best recipes, then practice the technique, I guess.

The top chefs who can produce the best flavours are not likely to give away their secrets, are they?

It's a bit like asking how you jump from being a mediocre guitarist in a pub band to someone like Ritchie Blackmore, who is widely rated as more gifted. You can either produce superior results or you can't.

[JerryM]

Phil,

many thanks for suggestions. the gm should technically go on the list and will add in. i say technically i never use it as a late addition or any addition to a main dish. the coriander is in q2.

George,

you're very right - the know what i'm searching for won't be found easily. the post was to try and tease out any thoughts that might help me get a way forward.

i must admit that i'm a tad uncertain on how successful the search will be. i can make quite a few dishes that are up there with the best already. i currently see recipe refinement (as you suggest) the best way to get the rest of the menu in the same state. the "curry weeks" for each mains being my primary focus - where i cook the same dish all week gently pushing the envelope towards what i've come to appreciate from those top notch BIR.

at the back of my mind is i guess "clarity of taste" - hence the questioning "why" of the what and when of the the jigsaw that i already know. i think Axe was onto what i'm trying to put in words.

[JerryM]

Q2 - What are the short cook ingredients (defined as: Ingredients needing reheat or short cook). they being added after all the base has been added

Bought pastes (tandoori, balti), Fresh coriander, Pre fried sliced onion / green pepper, sliced green chilli, late bunjarra, late garlic, fresh tomato, marrowfat peas, sultanas

[Malc.]

Would you include the pre-made pastes such the masala paste and korma paste that some use? Then there is the chilli pickles: naga, scotch bonnet, green chilli etc. and an array of chef made masalas.

I have to ask though, what dish do you make that uses marrowfat peas?