Why does the Oil "Separate" from the Curry and Base?

[PaulP]

Bert, I can't remember the thread now but if you can find his profile and look at his posts you will find them easily. He usually comes back after a few new people have praised his recipes though 

Paul

[JerryM]

PaulP ,Secret Santa,

many thanks.

i have great respect for CA and hope he returns. it's often the case that the most important people on forums feel unloved and i'm in no doubt whatever the bust up - much love remains for CA.

on the emulsification max - i've tried 100% emulsification ie 500ml oil and 500 ml base - this is too much. given what you say i will work on it slowly.

[fried]

Another question would be:- What is the minimum amount of oil that's needed to absorb all the essences from the spices? Or is the goal to emulsify the largest quantity of oil.

[PaulP]

Hi Fried,

I think the oil in the base absorbs not just the powdered spice flavours but also some of the onion/garlic/pepper etc. flavours.

I used to slow fry an onion and pepper mixture and then used to use that oil to start my curries. I found it was too strong and actually took me away from BIR flavours.

Paul

[Secret Santa]

Another question would be:- What is the minimum amount of oil that's needed to absorb all the essences from the spices? Or is the goal to emulsify the largest quantity of oil.

I think the optimum goal would be to have an oil/curry ratio (I'm going to term it the 'Golden Ratio') such that when a curry is just finished cooking, it is starting to barely release oil. At that point you know you must have exactly the right amount of oil for the job.

[fried]

That would be my feeling too. It seems strange to have massive oil seperation and then scoop the oil out of the finished curry because there's too much.

[PaulP]

That description sounds right to me. I've made curries using too much oil and also reduced too much water from the base. You end up with a curry that has massive pools of oil that cannot be stirred back into the sauce.

I know we joke about liking our oily curries but there are limits.

[JerryM]

I think the oil in the base absorbs not just the powdered spice flavours but also some of the onion/garlic/pepper etc. flavours.

i too have come to this conclusion (my oil work led to it). i used to think it was down just to the chef garam or whole spice.

on the "oil" min for base. i think it is about 10% of the chopped onion volume. for me this equates to 150ml in 800g onion. how i arrived at this was over time through making base and tracking how much went in and how much i could reclaim when it surfaces at the end of cooking.

at frying stage i have to us more than 4 tbsp before i start to get oil in the finished curry. i feel that i burn a lot of oil off in the frying process though. my norm is 1 chef or 4 tbsp.

ps for info i now pour off the rec oil before blending just for ease of production.




this has really been bugging me - in the container is 500ml of rec oil and 500ml of finished base - will it mix - not a chance

[_Jon_]

These might be relevant:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfactants
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_micelle_concentration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micelle

I found them by clicking through from the soap article

My guess, based on the sole qualification of seeing a science book once, is:
Initially the oil is held in micelles.
As the water evaporates off some of the miscelles break down into monomers since the hydrophobic tail no longer forces them into the miscelle structure.
The increase in the oil layer after cooking is due to the random movement of miscelles causing some to reach the existing pools of oil and "pop" (due to the hydrophilic head).

I've not done any experiments to verify this theory but what I can say for certain is it's one of the most plausible things that I've ever made up