Thanks for the replies!  Some interesting points.  The reply with the link to a radio discussion about pizza bases was pretty relevant too, I thought, as this is something I've tried (and failed) to get right too.

The conclusion I came too about pizza bases was that they are cooked in a blazingly hot oven, very fast.  On TV, I think I saw an Italian cook move a pile of burning wood cinders (in an oven) aside a foot or so, and then immediately put the pizza onto the vacated 'hot spot'.  The high temperature crisps the outside whilst leaving the inner moist, provided it is pulled out just minutes later.

My gas oven goes up to Mark 9  which is 240 degrees C.  My guess is that this is nowhere near hot enough.  The 'glowing red hot' ovens of a pizzeria are likely to be at least double this (I work with furnaces but not the sort you can put food in!) and perhaps far hotter.  To the poster who mentioned putting a pizza stone in the oven for a long time, I do doubt that even stabilised at 240C, this would ever suffice.  My hunch is that successful naans are 90% about the cooking and 10% about the dough recipe.

Anyway, the comments on the radio interview link kind of support this idea, as he tampers (dangerously) to override his oven's clean cycle temperature limit.

Another problem with pizza stones, incidentally, is the ease of breaking them.  I didn't dare copy the moist dough as used in a restaurant, which they want to 'stick' to a tandoor's wall, after reading countless stories on Amazon.com of reviewers cracking their Sassafras stones by thermal shock etc.  Cold liquid onto brittle stone at 240C isn't good.

The other factor with a Tandoor is the 'clay effect' which at least a stone should emulate.

Does anyone have an idea of temperatures inside a Tandoor?  I did get a look inside one once, it didn't look all that hot but then it might not have been in proper use at the time.  I know the cooks lose the hair on the arm they use to place naans against the wall.  Can anyone shed any light on how hot tandoors get?  Do the electric ones have a temperature dial to adjust which would give this away?

Not a recipe request, this question's about the cooking step.

Every attempt I've made at Naan breads has ended up like an oversized Pitta bread.  Large, uniformly brown, very nice but nothing like a Restaurant Naan.  A recent attempt with a Pizza stone in a gas oven at max. temperature didn't work either.  And giving it a singeing afterwards with a blowtorch didn't fool anyone.

Be honest now, how many of your attempts have looked remotely like the BIR variety?

I notice one post earlier on, claiming success with an iron pan heated very hot.  Can anyone confirm this or offer any other advice?  Or is the simple answer that if you haven't got a proper Tandoor oven, you'll only ever get a large Pitta bread?

Bit of a backward step for last couple of days...

Yesterday, tried burning garlic in oil, and after removal of burnt bits, used oil to fry fresh garlic in.? But this this didn't work at all.

Today, tried burning up some cumin seeds as well as garlic, then after 'cleaning', used the oil to fry fresh garlic, cumin powder and asafoteda.? Result....nothing like the near-miss of a few days ago.

Bit perplexed at momentary success earlier this week, must have touched upon something a bit more transient than just adding the right ingredient.? But fear not, more experiments on the way, plus we've been pointed at another tarka recipe to try claiming to have that elusive smokey taste!? Will crack this one way or another.....

Roy.

Payal,

We've done some futher experiments and are quite encouraged.? A mixture of ground cumin, garlic & turmeric when fried in oil and added to the dhal definitely gave some of the smokiness we seek.? Not quite the full amount, but we sense that we are on the right track!? Now, by adding all three, I can't say for sure which ingredient helped most, but I am starting to get some suspicions here...

Elsewhere on this forum, there's a discussion about "reclaimed oil", meaning using oil that has seen quite a bit of frying action before.? Here's the link if you want to check it out:

https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=657.0

One of the conclusions to that discussion was that reused oil acquires a smokey taste, and that some BIR's use this to inject an extra flavour into their dishes.

One of the earlier posters in this thread mentioned the addition of dried garlic flakes to very hot oil, something that would clearly burn the garlic at once.? Well, I'm starting to think that this method is just a short-cut to create the smokey taste of well-used reclaimed oil.? Bits of burned garlic would obviously ruin any dish, so I'm starting to suspect that such bits are removed, and just the smoke-infused oil is used.

So my next experiment will be to burn garlic in oil and then use the oil alone, which I'll post the results of soon.

CurryQueen,

We've just tried your sesame oil recipe.? It certainly is a lovely dhal.? The browning of the garlic did impart some smokiness, but also there was a little of the acrid/bitter taste that browned garlic has.? Is was very enjoyable, but not exactly what we are seeking.

The browned garlic/cumin seeds were very visible in the yellow dhal.? I mention this, as having stared longingly into many a BIR dhal, it's rare to see anything brown in them.? Perhaps the odd bit of browned onion may be put in some, but most show nothing like the amount amount of browned material that the sesame recipe creates (to the degree that it darkened the yellow dhal to a brownish colour).

When you make it, do you separate out the browned cumin seeds & garlic, and then just use the oil?? Just a thought, as I was starting to wonder if perhaps restaurants flavour the oil by some such dark frying, but remove the bits to avoid passing on any unpleasant taste?

This certainly is one hell of a difficult problem to crack.? Does anyone have an Indian Granny they can cross-examine?!

Bhuna-boy - Turmeric is a colourant, the flavour being generally described as "wet cardboard".? I would be astonished if this could impart smokiness!

Curry Queen - Yes I will try your sesame oil recipe, but I would be surprised if such a non-indian oil was the basis of almost all UK Tarka Dhal recipes?? My quest for Smokey Tarka Dhal has lead me to many new really lovely dhals, all I've been glad to find, though none yet has been smokey.

CurryCanuck - Am in the process of experimenting with dhal frying.? Do you use a relatively liquid dhal (eg red lentils, which even after draining are still a liquid mush) or more solid dhals like split peas, which can be drained to leave a drier solid?? I'm just wondering if your frying trick requires a less liquid dhal, so that the oil isn't instantly cooled?

If you've ever had a truly smoked food, the smoke taste is unmistakable, if that makes things any clearer?!? I had started to wonder whether restaurants had some trick involving the tandoor (my local restaurant's is wood-fuelled, though many others are electric/gas) to quite literally put some kind of smoke taste into an ingredient?? Just a daft idea.

What I do know is that Indian Chefs can be very protective of their recipes.? In my local BIR, the owner told me that the chef sends him out of the way (on some errand) so that he can prepare his spice mixtures etc in secret!

Curryqueen,

Thanks, I will try this idea too.? But I must admit, I've never heard of Sesame Oil being used in conventional Indian Cooking (perhaps it's more an Asian/Thai ingredient?), and I haven't noticed that distinctive "nutty" sesame oil taste in a dhal before.?

Where did you get this recipe from?

Roy.

CC - Thanks for the further info, we shall do some more experimenting and get back to you.? I suppose that hot enough oil may well impart some smokiness?

Mark J - What you say is intriguing, I would be very grateful to hear any more detail you can get on this subject.? My experience of browning garlic is that it just creates a horrible bitter taste, ruining any recipe in moments.? I would have thought that putting pre-dried garlic flakes into very hot oil would be an even faster way down the same road, so I wait with interest for any more info you can obtain.

Thanks again,

Roy.

CC,

Just thought I'd quickly add that we've just tried the recipe.? It's certainly one of the nicest dhals we've ever had, not sure if it's the ghee or the initial frying, but it does has a very lovely taste.

I can't say (yet) that it's smokey (though I haven't yet tried adding onions/garlic) but I was wondering exactly what you meant by "tossed" in the tempered oil?? After adding the dhal to the hot ghee, there is an initial vigorous frying/boiling, which quickly subsides as the ghee mixes with the dhal.? Is this what you mean, or did you have in mind a far more vigorous, prolonged high temperature blast in the oiled pan?

Thanks again,

Roy.

Hi Currycanuk,

Thanks for the quick answer, I will give your suggestions a try soon and report back.

Meanwhile, I'm a little curious about your recipe.? Some dhals in the UK do seem quite "solid", so may well have been fried in oil etc, but more commonly they are fluid to be point of sometimes approaching a soup.? How can such fluid dhals have been fried?

The annoying thing is that despite the fact that UK Tarka Dhals vary hugely by way of different pulses used, seasoning and consistency ranging all the way from near solid to soup, they all have that damned smokey taste, which had kind of given me the idea that some mystery ingredient must be common to all.? I will try your recipe, but wonder if you can explain such varied (but still smokey) dhals?

Thanks,

Roy.