Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: livo on July 23, 2022, 02:59 AM
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Rather than continue to clutter mick's thread, let's discuss Balti in general here. I don't expect to solve this but it will make for interesting discussion.
Balti is a word which apparently translates to bucket. Balti is a dish. Here is the conundrum. The passion of Balti. Do an internet search and you'll find plenty of things claiming to be Balti. So supposedly it started in the 1970's in Birmingham, but there is a claim from Rishton's Chef Hussain that he's cooking one with a recipe and style handed down through the family since the 1930's. How can that be?
What exactly constitutes a real, proper, authentic Balti?
1) Geography
2) Ingredients
3) Cooking / serving utensil
4) Heat / flame
5) Spice blend
6) Some of the above
7) All of the above from 1 - 5.
Why?
1) Balti comes from Birmingham. End of story. Like Champagne, Bourbon and Single Malt Scotch. Geographically restricted to an area. In this case Brum Balti or nothing. You can't even cook one in Baltistan.
2) Consists only of fresh ingredients (but you can get a Tikka Balti if you want. Huh???)
3) Has to be cooked in a Birmingham Balti Co. Balti pan and served in it as well.
4) Cooked on high heat with the flame burning off some of the excess of oil. We've seen it, commented on it and the result of not doing it will be an excessively oily dish. I've just experienced that but according to Chef Zaf Hussain, you can just spoon it off.
5) Uses a specific set of Balti spices (unless you put something else in)
6) If you skip one or 3 of these it could potentially still be a Balti, maybe.
7) To be a proper Balti it must tick all of these boxes from 1 - 5. Any deviation and it's not a proper BB.
I can go and buy a jar of Balti paste, or make my own from a recipe as I've done. I can cook a dish from that following instructions, recipes or based on previous experience. Have I cooked a Balti or not? I can follow MDB's Chicken Balti (Al Frash) recipe or the Rishton Chicken Balti, or now Shababs Chicken Balti (ala Misty Ricardo). All 3 from Birmingham Balti restaurants. All purportedly Chicken Balti. It should be the same dish, right?? However, a quick look at the ingredients and cooking (I've only done 1 so far) shows that they are completely different.
What do you think?
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What do you think?
I think it's a marketing gimmick. The BIR industry succeeded in creating a whole new category of dishes, generating further interest in Indian restaurants.
I find it hard to believe there's any difference between using a normal pan and a balti dish for the cooking. Maybe even Shababs use a normal pan, when they are not being filmed or observed by a visitor.
I have tried only three types of balti curry: (1) chilled food dishes from supermarkets, all lacklustre and nothing special at all; (2) a few chicken balti dishes from provincial Indian restaurants - again nothing special and not a dish I would order again from the same restaurant; (3) Shababs - the only one I rated as merit worthy, not one of the tastiest curries I have ever enjoyed but just below that level. The intriguing thing was that I wouldn't have known where to start in recreating the same flavour at home. It was somewhat unusual. But now, R Sayce has published a recipe and it will be interesting to see if it delivers a similar taste. I will try to find the time to prepare his recipe, ahead of a planned, third visit to Shababs in October.
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3) Has to be cooked in a Birmingham Balti Co. Balti pan and served in it as well.
The Birmingham Balti Bowl Co. Ltd. was incorporated on 28-Apr-2021 (https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13362400/filing-history) — how, then, were authentic Birmingham baltis cooked prior to the date ?
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** Phil.
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Good to know that George has eaten one of these mysterious meals. Please cook it to tell us if it's the real deal.
Phil, the pan propaganda has been around since well before that date. I saw it years ago. Maybe someone's recently invested some money.
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3) Has to be cooked in a Birmingham Balti Co. Balti pan and served in it as well.
The Birmingham Balti Bowl Co. Ltd. was incorporated on 28-Apr-2021 (https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13362400/filing-history) — how, then, were authentic Birmingham baltis cooked prior to the date ?
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** Phil.
Without looking it up to provide exact details the pans used to be made in a factory that closed down and so they found a new supplier.
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Apparently there used to be around 400 balti houses (I think in Brum but not sure). Now there's about six. Make of that what you will.
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What exactly constitutes a real, proper, authentic Balti?
One that originates in Brum and isn't made by the addition of a teaspoon of Pataks balti paste.
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Immediately after starting this thread I sat and searched for balti information while i had a cup of coffee. I sat for about a half hour and you probably won't be surprised.
First I checked around a bit to see if I could go and buy one. There are 3 well regarded Indian restaurants around me, one of which was award winning for consecutive years. I've dined at all 3 over a period of 30 years and enjoyed it every time. A Balti dish is not on their menus. So I searched for Balti in Sydney and the top link was to a restaurant called The Colonial something which claims to serve British curry. A report on Trip Advisor claimed the Balti was the best this side of Birmingham. Promising. Checked the menu. No Balti. Come to think of it, I can't recall seeing a balti on a menu out here.
I then started looking for balti recipes. Every man and his dog (plus women as well) has a recipe for Balti Chicken. Of course they are all "authentic" and they almost invariably have a little story about the origins of balti and then present the recipe containing balti paste. Within a very short time I'd read about 20 ingredient lists. I even watched a video of a BIR Chef cooking Balti Chicken w/ Pataks paste. Pataks even have there own videos on how to make authentic balti like a chef. Some recipes have sugar added. Some also have lemon juice and that reminded me of the Mr Huda ingredients.
So then I looked at the pastes. They have sweetening (mango chutney) and souring agents. Tamarind or lemon juice and there are mentions of food acid and citric acid. (Not uncommon as it's for preserving) None of these sweetening and souring agents are in the 3 balti restaurant videos. I think Jamie Oliver adds citric acid in his recipe. Why?
On to recipes for balti pastes. There aren't many. I again found the one that I have been using for over 10 years. I found one that is a possible contender using less spices and then there are a few that supposedly show how to make balti sauce or balti gravy but these are individual dish preparations and not a preserved paste. When you look at the spices used in the 3 Birmingham baltis, it is nothing special so a good usable balti paste (preserved) should be a relatively easy project to nut out using basic principles.
I thoroughly enjoy the balti paste I make and use. It adds wonderful flavour and I've had jars keep in the fridge for several years without issue. I have no problem adding a good dollop to Mick's 100% clone base gravy when cooking balti chicken. I haven't recently tried Pataks balti but I do use their commercial butter chicken paste, which i quite like, and use frequently. Many years ago I used to use the Pataks balti stri fry sauce (and other flavours) that came ready to cook in a tin can. I don't see them any more, not that I'd use them now.
The other paste I regularly use now is Rik's (loveitspicy) Madras paste. Using a tsp of this with about 2 tsp of home made balti paste in a double serve of mdb's balti chicken makes a great curry, and I'll call it a balti every day. It's probably closer to a real one than most online.
I noticed last night that my container of Balti Garam Masala is empty so today I will research and compare these spice blends. I'll wager there is a wide variety all supposedly the same thing.
Wait until you see the balti I prepared last night. :omg: :omg: Absolutely delicious and the ingredient list will surprise you.
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The video I referred to above. Chicken Balti by Indian Restaurant Cooking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjPEVG6tfp4&list=WL&index=1&t=102s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjPEVG6tfp4&list=WL&index=1&t=102s)
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I think Jamie Oliver adds citric acid in his recipe. Why?
Because he's a clueless chav, that's why.
It's really easy to fall down the balti rabbit hole but when you think the addition of any variety of "balti" paste makes a proper balti you've fallen a bit too far.
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3) Has to be cooked in a Birmingham Balti Co. Balti pan and served in it as well.
The Birmingham Balti Bowl Co. Ltd. was incorporated on 28-Apr-2021 (https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13362400/filing-history) — how, then, were authentic Birmingham baltis cooked prior to the date ?
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** Phil.
I recall the previous suggestion (Andy Munro) for a bowl was Uncle's Home Store, Birmingham. I was there (Ladypool Road) yesterday; first time in years. I couldn't find the shop. They may have closed down.
Advanced notice. I will be reviewing my supper last night. Shababs Balti Chicken. What you will see is not for the faint-hearted.
Rob :)
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It's really easy to fall down the balti rabbit hole but when you think the addition of any variety of "balti" paste makes a proper balti you've fallen a bit too far.
I understand that Santa, and the dishes I have recently prepared all had more in common with "authentic" balti than most recipes i found. Balti gravy, fresh ingredients, raw chicken, etc etc. These weren't a case of simply adding paste.
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I recall the previous suggestion (Andy Munro) for a bowl was Uncle's Home Store, Birmingham. I was there (Ladypool Road) yesterday; first time in years. I couldn't find the shop. They may have closed down.
Advanced notice. I will be reviewing my supper last night. Shababs Balti Chicken. What you will see is not for the faint-hearted.
Rob :)
I recall reading about that, re where to get balti pans, a while back. I can't think where though. I'm keen to see your review of the Shababs Balti Chicken. I am about to do it to spec according to the MR instruction today. I'm out of mdb's gravy now. 2 half batches in a couple of weeks is the most curry I've cooked in a while and I've really enjoyed it.
Edit: I'm going to wait on your review Rob, before I go ahead and make it. I will however try the Rishton / Shababs Real Balti (ie: not base gravy) method today.
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Correction
So I searched for Balti in Sydney and the top link was to a restaurant called The Colonial something which claims to serve British curry. A report on Trip Advisor claimed the Balti was the best this side of Birmingham. Promising. Checked the menu. No Balti. Come to think of it, I can't recall seeing a balti on a menu out here.
The Colonial British Indian Cuisine of Darlinghurst and Neutral Bay does prepare a Balti. I found it in the Chef's Special section of the menu.
Beef Balti
Diced beef pieces cooked in a balti pan with spring onions, fenugreek leaves, fresh coriander and mint.
I might have to jump on a train with Mrs L for a meal in the city.
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The more research I do the more I find that people will call absolutely anything a balti. I have also come across some information that points to the possibility that base gravy is not a part of balti preparation or cooking.
Balti chef conference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eyx_DhepDg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eyx_DhepDg)
I have found this recipe for balti apparently by the same Shababs chef (Zaf Hussain) where it is almost exactly * as demonstrated by the other chef Hussain Rashid (Rishton). No base gravy.
https://curryculture.co.uk/balti-recipe/ (https://curryculture.co.uk/balti-recipe/)
So this begs the question, does authentic brum balti use base gravy at all? It appears to be a stir fry of basic fresh ingredients. Onion, garlic, ginger, tomato and spice with whatever meat and or vegetable you wish.
* Almost Exactly: The list of ingredients is the same with the exception that Shababs adds Cumin, Rishton does not. Shababs uses Paprika where Rishton uses Kashmiri Red Chilli Powder. I have found that in Indian food they are the same thing (interchangeable) and paprika is not sweet paprika with no heat or Hungarian or smoked. Indian paprika has heat. Terminology for quantities varies from one to the other. Cooking method is the same.
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Balti chef conference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eyx_DhepDg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eyx_DhepDg)
:lol:
The more research I do the more I find that people will call absolutely anything a balti. I have also come across some information that points to the possibility that base gravy is not a part of balti preparation or cooking.
Balti chef conference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eyx_DhepDg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eyx_DhepDg)
I saw this and instantly dismissed it. We know from several videos that Shababs uses a base sauce. And I doubt a balti was ever made without the use of a base sauce anywhere. The "everything has to be fresh" is part of the balti myth.
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Glad you liked it Santa and it rings true doesn't it? I believe the urban myth has overtaken reality.
However, I disagree with your second comment. I've just done it. Two brum baltis from fresh ingredients as per the instructions. Prawn and chicken balti. I suppose you could add jalfrezi as I put extra capsicum in. I'll post photos tomorrow.
Firstly, they were very nice.
Secondly, they are not your usual restaurant curry.
Thirdly, they are not too different to cooking mdbs balti base gravy and related balti dish. *qualifier below.
Fourth, I added too much (Indian) paprika. Cleared Mrs L's sinuses though. I liked it but others wouldn't.
Fifth, if that's a balti, meh!! What's all the fuss about?
Qualifier. Mick, you don't need all that Cassia bark. A 1/2 tsp of decent garam masala does the job.
I would go so far as to say, if you want a balti, cook it fresh. It's a lot less hassle and mess than the whole balti base gravy thing.
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However, I disagree with your second comment. I've just done it. Two brum baltis from fresh ingredients as per the instructions.
No, no, no. I'm talking about actual BIR/balti restaurants and takeaways. Of course you can as an individual make a curry from scratch but can you show me real evidence that a balti house would do it this way? Look at all the refrences you have like the kushi balti book and the birmingham balti book (or something like that), and the numerous Shababs videos and others on YouTube. They all use a base sauce.
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Ah, I see what you mean and certainly the recent Shababs video showing a 50 kg onion prep would indicate that base gravy is used. Surprisingly, cooking 2 curries from fresh ingredients in a steel wok was pretty quick though.
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I think Jamie Oliver adds citric acid in his recipe. Why?
Because he's a clueless chav, that's why.
Sorry, but I can't let this stand. Calling Jamie Oliver a clueless chav is horribly insulting.
... to chavs :Clown: :lol:
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That's twice now I've had to google something. First it wasTrilby hats and now chavs.
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That's twice now I've had to google something. First it wasTrilby hats and now chavs.
Well, now you know how we poor Britons feel when faced with impenetrabilia such as "arvo", "barbie", "dinkum", "flannie", "ripper" and "sheila" !
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Fair suck of the sav Phil. Don't come the raw prawn with us. They're all bonza words.
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Fair suck of the sav Phil. Don't come the raw prawn with us. They're all bonza words.
'Ere, you taking the gypsy's, me old China ? It's all bubble to me, a right load of cobblers.
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About two weeks ago, I was watching every YouTube video and reading every recipe I could find about Balti. I watched one particular Balti video on YouTube by a chef from an operational BIR, which was not claiming to be a "Birmingham Balti", but a Balti nonetheless. So I asked in the comments, "What in your opinion makes a dish a Balti?". His video recipe used a Balti Paste and as he has his own line of curry related products, I thought he might make his own paste, so I also asked what paste he used?
Today, I received a reply. Keep in mind that this video is for a BIR Balti dish (ie: not claiming to be a replica Brum Balti from 1978). Now, I'm not casting any aspersions upon this chef. In fact I've cooked his recipes before today and enjoyed them. The recipe for this Balti curry looks good to me although I haven't tried it yet. However, in the interests of this discussion about what is a Balti, I thought his answer was pertinent.
Here is the answer: "Balti paste makes it a balti because it completely alters the flavour. We use pataks."
So there you have it! A BIR Balti dish is classified as such because of flavour, and that flavour is Patak's Balti Paste.
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So there you have it! A BIR Balti dish is classified as such because of flavour, and that flavour is Patak's Balti Paste.
It's not even worth discussing. If it has Patak's balti paste it isn't a balti.
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You know that and I know that, according to some definitions of Balti. I've been cooking authentic Birmingham Balti from scratch (supposedly). I haven't yet tried Misty Ricardo's version of the Shababs Balti using Balti base gravy but I have cooked it from individual ingredients (supposedly). The thing is that here is a practicing BIR chef who cooks and sells Balti.
So I again ask the question, what actually constitutes a dish being a Balti?
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Please don’t shoot the messenger but in the introduction to a small Balti cookbook Pat Chapman wrote for Sainsburys in 1994, he states that
“Cooking curry amongst people of all ages is on the increase. And they are demanding more and more sophistication from their curry restaurants and their food suppliers. Every now and then a new idea appears on the culinary scene and spreads like wildfire. This happened in the 1970s with Tandoori cooking, which, though in itself an ancient technique, had not been a feature of curry house menus before. A couple of decades having passed, it was time for a new development to emerge on the curry scene; Balti Is that new development.
Balti is a type of curry. Any ingredient or combination of ingredients can be used. The distinctive feature about balti is the way it is cooked, and the pan it is cooked and served in, A two handled wok like steel dish, the Balti pan is also known in India as a karahi. Balti is aromatic, fresh, spicy and very tasty (and only hot if you make it so). Cooking balti is (or should be) quick and easy. You’ll need to spend a couple of hours making a few basic preparations every now and again, but once you’ve done this you’ll be able to produce stir-fry Balti curries as easily as Chinese dishes.
The first Balti house opened in the Sparkbrook area of Birmingham as early as 1976. The original establishment still supplies cheap and cheerful transport-cafe-style balti food. Portions are huge and cutlery is only dispensed on demand (You are welcome to use a chapati or naan bread to scoop up the balti curry). The next 10 years saw several copycat balti houses opening up: today, Birmingham has well over 100 houses and Balti restaurants are opening all over the country.
Balti is fun and it doesn’t take itself too seriously. Restaurants have names like Balti Bizarre and I am the King of Balti; there are at least three called Balti Towers!
I’ve had many a chat with many Balti house owners, each of whom is unshiftable about the origins of Balti. One is convinced it was Afghanistan, another, Iran, whilst others are adamant that it was India, or the Punjab, or Karachi or Kashmir. Best opinion of all was from a Bangladeshi who owns a balti house in Cardiff. In a fruity Brummie accent he categorically told me it was Birmingham which invented Balti. He didn’t quite go as far as to claim it for himself, but he assured me that anything else I’d heard to the contrary was quite untrue.
In fact, he is right and he’s wrong. There is no doubt whatsoever that Birmingham brought Balti to the attention of the British nation. However, Balti’s cooking origins go back rather further than Birmingham - to Pakistan. It is centuries old, from the most northern areas of Pakistan in a mountainous and little-known state called Baltistan. Here, on the border of Tibet and India, live a hardy people, who, over the centuries, have learned to live in an inhospitable climate. In their traditional two-handled pan, the Balti pan, Balti people, with Tibetan ancestry and with Kashmiri spicing have created a unique cooking style. This style is now created with great charm and panache, in Balti houses all over the country.”
So is a Balti a combination of the style, cooking utensil, and particular local herbs and spices from a remote corner of the world?
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That introduction from PC is probably the principle source of the many various blurbs of the same story. While I'd never read that quote verbatim, I have read many iterations of the exact same story over and over. Its everywhere with and without embelishment. There is no doubt that the original authentic Birmingham Balti happened as described, some time nearly 50 years ago. It would take the unquestioned word of someone who was there to put any argument to rest. Perhaps Andy Munroe is that person. Who knows? However, at some point, one day in the 1970s, a cook made and served the first "Balti" in a commercial setting. It probably wasn't the first one ever cooked though, and how did that first one evolve into such a raging success?
What we don't know is just how close it is to the Baltistan meals cooked in the mountains. The quoted definition, or description, of the Balti dish raises further questions though, and that's the dilemma.
Can you cook a Balti in a wok with only 1 straight handle? What about an aluminium curry pan?
If you can and do, or use the proper cooking equipment, is it still a Balti if it's served in crockery or decorative copper serving bowl?
Is there a specific set of spices (Kashmiri or otherwise) that can be used? MDB uses ajwain in the 100% clone base but it's not in anything else I've found about Balti.
Do the spices have to be in individual form or are Balti masalas or pastes acceptable, either self prepared or commercial?
Does a real Balti have to be cooked from individual fresh ingredients? How were the originals made? If the base gravy and pre-cooked ingredients method is used, is it still a Balti?
Is Balti a cooking style, a serving style, or an experience?
Is Balti a flavour? It would appear that within the contemporary BIR industry it is and that flavour is easily obtained. Pataks paste.
As I've found over the years that I've been interested in this culinary hobby, Balti is just a word that's been appropriated and attached to any number of different concoctions. Some may closely resemble traditional Baltistan meals. Some may link directly and closely to 1970s Birmingham. Others may just have a bought flavour that the masses have come to accept. My recent interest has again shown that anyone can call anything a Balti depending on it fitting rather loosely into any one or more of the rather wide ranging qualifications, or even not.
The surprising thing to me is that 1976 was only 46 years ago. A young chef starting out in a Birmingham Balti house at that time could still be working today, or at worst only recently retired. If these Balti houses popped up everywhere right up to the 1990s this is recent history. Clearly, by the shear number of Balti houses that existed at that time and thereafter, just around that area, there must be hundreds of people still living who worked in those kitchens. Some would presumably be still working in the industry. Are the Shababs, et al, versions recently released the real deal or the 2020s version?
I'm going to conduct an experiment today. I'll cook the same fresh ingredient Shababs Balti I've been cooking recently and I'll also cook the Shababs bulk cook (base gravy) method as presented by Misty Ricardo in the recent Andy Munroe video. It will be interesting to compare the 2 Baltis.
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Preparation for 2 methods of Shababs Balti Chicken complete. I'll cook them this afternoon ready for dinner tonight.
It is already evident that the version using base gravy will be more flavoursome. Cardamom, both green and black, Tej Pat, Cassia and Cloves are not in the cook from scratch version. I guess you could temper these spices in the oil to commence with for this version to bring it closer to the base gravy version. The cook from scratch version uses more onion and fresh tomato then the gravy method, but this would essentially balance out.
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I'm going to conduct an experiment today.
Despite and given your recent admission.. your continued experimentation to try a dish that barely any of us has eaten the original of, and even if we had, could barely remember it, is EXEMPLARY!
Your research, methods and comparisons are most enlightening.
Thank you! :like:
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Here's a photo of the Balti Chicken which I found pleasant and interesting at Shebabs in 2018.
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Well things didn't go exactly to plan, but there's nothing new about that at my place. I'd forgotten that Mrs L is on a special diet for the next 2 weeks, leading up to a medical examination. No Grain, no seeds and next week no dairy either. Essentially, no food that I can easily prepare. I love her anyway. Nevertheless, I did the best I could and made her a Balti Vegetables and Balti Chicken and Mushroom (using Passata instead of Tomatoes with seeds and skin). I only had ingredients left to prepare myself a Balti Chicken and I decided to go the Base Gravy method as I've already tried the fresh method.
Dinner was delicious and I have to admit that I like Birmingham Balti, assuming I'm cooking it as it's meant to be. There are a few observations though.
1) Neither of Shababs Baltis are anything like MDB's Balti Chicken. Secret Santa, you'll be pleased to know that these dishes are full of flavour and spice.
2) Balti is a flavour!!! Take the word of Mrs L. Her comment was, and I quote, "They all taste the same". So if I'm doing Misty Ricardo's Balti (Shababs) Base Gravy correctly, or the cook from scratch method, and then using that to cook different dishes with different principle ingredients, and they all taste the same, then we can assume that this is the Balti flavour. In light of the way a Balti House served food, this is not really surprising. If you went in and ordered a Balti Chicken or a Balti Prawn it is only the chicken or prawn that varies.
3) As a versatile Base Gravy (100% Balti clone or not) I prefer MDB's. The flavour profile in the Shababs (Misty Ricardo) gravy is way too strong to be anything that can be manipulated to other dishes. It is really good but it is the curry. I could make delicate Butter Chicken out of MDB's gravy, but I doubt it will work with the Shababs gravy. The big flavour is Black Cardamom so I suppose you could drop that back a little.
4) I actually prefer the Shababs cook from scratch over the base gravy method. There is probably a qualifier required here. I feel that in this instance, cooking a reduced quantity with strong spices (cloves, black cardy's etc) is something that needs fine tuning. I only cooked 2/3 of the recipe quantity (linear scaling). In saying that though, I really see potential in this gravy. Very tasty indeed.
So, all in all, I believe I'm cooking Birmingham Baltis, but having never tasted one, maybe I'm not. Either way it isn't Patak's Balti Paste, and this time, not even my own. All cooked exactly how it's meant to be.
Sad thing is I had to have Chickpea roti again instead of big fluffy naan. :sad: :sad: :sad:
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And here is a photo of Shebabs Balti chicken which I enjoyed in 2020. But there's no consistency (quality assurance). They look quite different. You'd never get that with a Big Mac, for example - always the same.
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Despite and given your recent admission.. your continued experimentation to try a dish that barely any of us has eaten the original of, and even if we had, could barely remember it, is EXEMPLARY!
Your research, methods and comparisons are most enlightening.
Thank you! :like:
Bob, since I became really interested in "curry" cooking (Indian, Sri Lankan, Pakistani, Kashmiri, Middle Eastern, Thai, Japanese, Australian, etc), I have tried to find out what it is really all about. I've been cooking it for over 30 years now and I first ate Curried Egg sandwiches and Curried Sausages about 55 years ago (thanks Mum). It is all different. Nasty Chinese restaurant 1970's Curried Prawns and Rice. Nothing better or easier, but try to recreate it.
There can be no doubt that the Birmingham Balti has gained a type of mystique and therefore it is interesting to me. I've been looking at it for years, but I feel that it is only recently I've found anything near the mark. From over here I wouldn't really know, as you correctly pointed out. I'm on the other side of the planet so I'm only going on what the supposed experts are providing. All that said, I'm cooking some pretty damned tasty curries. They are not BIR standard fair, and I guess that's the point here. But there must be people still alive and who actually worked in these establishments. It isn't that long ago.
The Birmingham Balti is a different animal. I'd love to have somebody, from Birmingham, about my age, who has had authentic Balti, taste my dishes.
I'll tell you all a funny story. If any of you have ever been under general anaesthetic, you'll know that when you're coming out everything is a bit odd and you can say the strangest things. A few years back I had a hip replacement. When I was coming out of anaesthesia I was met by a nurse with blue hair and a UK accent. Pre-Covid and there were plenty of Brit medics over here. In my awakening stupor and even as I became more lucid I was asking her for information about BIR and Birmingham Balti.
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And here is a photo of Shebabs Balti chicken which I enjoyed in 2020. But there's no consistency (quality assurance). They look quite different. You'd never get that with a Big Mac, for example - always the same.
Hey George, Good to see your still around!! :smile2:
Are you just spelling it wrong or have you been going to MacDounalds? I disagree with your premise regarding Big Macs. If you travel the length and breadth of our great land you will find good, bad and in between. All 3 of my kids and 2 of my sisters have worked in the Big M establishment and there is no guarantee of consistency, although it is a fairly reliable source of food substitute.
If you've been going to Shebabs, you'd better try walking around the corner to Shababs. :Clown: :Clown: Only kidding you George. We Aussies cant help it you know.
Of course you know I'm having a lend George. :clown2: I hope you still have a sense of humour. I do sincerely appreciate your input and photographs and it actually appears to confirm the online reviews that the consistency of the establishment is not great. It is a difficult time for the hospitality industry at the moment too, so we need to keep that in mind.
I'd be really keen for you to actually cook some of these dishes from the recipes and provide a critical appraisal, particularly about whether or not the published information is on the money or not, compared to what you've actually sampled. You appear to be one of the few who have.
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Livo - I used the Big Mac as an example of a consistent product because I found it always seems the same wherever I've had one at many locations around the world. But not in Australia which I have never visited. My recollection of the Balti Chicken dishes I had in 2018 and 2020 was that they were both half-decent curries, different to anything I've ever had before or since. It concerns me that Bob had a bad experience and my current position is that I will not bother travelling to Birmingham at all now. For several years running, I camped with my tent quite close to the NEC in October and attended exhibitions such as the Channel 4 spin off 'Grand Designs'. I cycle to the NEC and it was a low cost outing. A Gourmet Society card got me 25% off curries at a BIR in Tamworth and at Shababs. Whereas hotels anywhere near the NEC cost a fortune, the camp site is only about £11 per night. The exhibition tickets are free. But the Tamworth place no longer recognises Gourmet Society and I am not sure about Shababs. Fuel costs for the car have also gone up too much. End of an era, probably, for my October journeys.
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I do agree with you George, that the Big Mac is probably one of the most consistent food items found around the globe, although I do believe that there are some variations from place to place. The burger in itself here is meant to be the same wherever you go but there are local supply issues and human involvement. Also, it certainly isn't the "Big" that it used to be. A few years back when there was a considerable amount of alarm about portion sizes and upselling, it shrunk quite considerably.
That's a shame about your annual trip being off George. Fuel prices over here have dropped a bit in recent weeks with the global price of oil going down a bit, but I agree, and unnecessary travel is something I'm now trying to avoid as much as possible.
I find your comment about the Balti dishes you had very interesting and in line with my experiences recently. "half-decent" and "different" are very apt descriptions.
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Hey George, it's great to know you've sampled the real thing, not once, but twice!
What would be even greater would be if you'd make Mick's version and give some qualified feedback.
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In light of the way a Balti House served food, this is not really surprising. If you went in and ordered a Balti Chicken or a Balti Prawn it is only the chicken or prawn that varies.
Except it's not. If you watch the Shababs videos and some others (can't recall which) they do use different spicing. In one he adds a lot of paprika for example.
The Birmingham Balti is a different animal. I'd love to have somebody, from Birmingham, about my age, who has had authentic Balti, taste my dishes.
I'm sure my cousin Dave would be more than happy to oblige if you paid his air fare.
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Hey George, it's great to know you've sampled the real thing, not once, but twice!
What would be even greater would be if you'd make Mick's version and give some qualified feedback.
I will try to get around to it at some time. At present, my priority is to be in a position to move my solar panels for winter. I have now gone almost 6 months without using any mains electricity. If I can keep it up for 12 months, they will refund the standing charge and not charge me any more, for as long as I can make do without. No way will I be forking out the astronomic figures forecast for energy bills from Spring 2023, like £5K.
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I would also recommend more people try Mick’s recipe and give some feedback. Balti or not, the results for me so far have been great curries and that’s what we’re here for, right?
On a NEC related note, I also used to go there for exhibitions when I lived in the UK. I used to stay in a little hotel in Sutton Coldfield. There was an Indian restaurant just around the corner.
Still there too! Funny how you remember some things. Must be 25 years since I visited that restaurant.
https://www.bashundora.com/
I remember fondly picking up a bottle of red from a nearby offy, a nice vindaloo and keema pilau and just relaxing in my hotel room alone, watching Newcastle United get trounced in some match.
Happy days.
Robbo
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At present, my priority is to be in a position to move my solar panels for winter.
Careful now. You don't want to go the way of Rod Hull.
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At present, my priority is to be in a position to move my solar panels for winter.
Careful now. You don't want to go the way of Rod Hull.
I just read that Rod Hull died after falling off the roof of his home while adjusting a TV aerial. No, my solar panels are not on the roof. But I do sometimes walk/crawl around the roof and I always keep hold of a safety rope.
Back to Balti ... I was going to try Misty Ricardo's recipe first but does anyone think Mick's recipe is better? Even if it is better, perhaps Misty's recipe stands a better chance of being like the balti at Shababs.
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George, I would suggest that before you make either base gravy, you at least once try the Balti cooked from scratch using basic fresh ingredients. The recipes and method shown by Shababs and Rishton chefs are all but identical and I found it to be very quick, easy and affordable as well as producing a nice dish. You might instantly recognise it as the Shababs Balti you've already tried.
If you then feel inclined to make the base gravies, be aware that they are quite different. Misty Ricardo's gravy is well spiced while Mick's is the opposite. Misty Ricardo's Chicken Balti (using gravy) is similar to the fresh ingredient dish but more spiced.
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Back to Balti ... I was going to try Misty Ricardo's recipe first but does anyone think Mick's recipe is better? Even if it is better, perhaps Misty's recipe stands a better chance of being like the balti at Shababs.
I have been using MR's pre-cook method for Chicken and a Beef variation with Welshknuckles recipe for Base Gravy (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1442.0) for a long time. I have really enjoyed the resulting Balti, more than my local takeaways back then (not had one from a takeaway for a few years and unfortunately cannot compare it a Birmingham).
I still have some Base left and whilst Curry is always delicious, we have not been eating many hot meals in this house for the last 2-3 months (George would nod in appreciation I think), except for the occasional Chicken Burrito, which I made a while ago in the slow cooker, portioned, froze and reheat in the microwave, assembling with fresh vegetables.
I will get around to trying MDB Balti.. but not yet.
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Bob, I remember trying that Belting Balti Base Gravy and Balti Chicken 7 years ago (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=13824.0) but I don't recall it being similar to the dishes I've prepared recently. I could be mistaken of course. Looking at the ingredient list though, there are more similarities than differences.
The topic of grinding the whole spices up in the gravy is discussed. In my recent cook of Misty Ricardo's version of Shababs gravy I did grind them, but I sieved it as it was just really gritty. The flavour of the Black Cardamom is prevalent. I think next time I'll remove all whole spices and I believe it will benefit from this.
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I think next time I'll remove all whole spices and I believe it will benefit from this.
That part is always confusing to me.. often omitted from any descriptive method, as if it is obvious. I remove large items, such as bay leaf when I think it has 'done it's bit' and Cassia before I think it will overpower any other spices. That in itself is why I am 'resistant' to making MDB's.. grinding up 55g of bark (no mention of removing it)... I would want to 'cook' it for a lot longer than just 1 hour before I risk putting it in a blender??? Maybe I have missed a trick/step about removing it?
BAJ
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The whole spices are all removed in Mick's gravy. They are boiled to make a separate Akhni stock which is strained before adding to the onion mix.
There are a few other recipes that call for blending with whole spices. I remember one which had Star Anise, Cassia, Cardamom etc. I can't recall which one but it was one of the Covid-19 releases by a chef showing how to cook BIR at home.
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George, I would suggest that before you make either base gravy, you at least once try the Balti cooked from scratch using basic fresh ingredients. The recipes and method shown by Shababs and Rishton chefs are all but identical and I found it to be very quick, easy and affordable as well as producing a nice dish. You might instantly recognise it as the Shababs Balti you've already tried.
Many thanks. Where can I find the recipe for 'Balti cooked from scratch'? Whose recipe is it?
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Probably "++++MDB’s Birmingham Balti Gravy 100% Clone Al Frash Balti Restaurant ++++ (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=47533.msg185378#msg185378)", George.
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** Phil.
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George, I would suggest that before you make either base gravy, you at least once try the Balti cooked from scratch using basic fresh ingredients. The recipes and method shown by Shababs and Rishton chefs are all but identical and I found it to be very quick, easy and affordable as well as producing a nice dish. You might instantly recognise it as the Shababs Balti you've already tried.
Many thanks. Where can I find the recipe for 'Balti cooked from scratch'? Whose recipe is it?
I disagree with livo on this. Make a base sauce version, not one from scratch, as that is how the balti restaurants are doing it. If you do the from scratch version your feedback won't be worth anything in relation to MDB's version which is what the main threads are about and what we need the feedback for from someone who has actually tried the real thing like yourself.
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Probably "++++MDB’s Birmingham Balti Gravy 100% Clone Al Frash Balti Restaurant ++++ (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=47533.msg185378#msg185378)", George.
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** Phil.
No that's MDB's base sauce version (the one George should try however). The from scratch version is made without a base sauce.
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So "The Holy Grail - Birmingham Balti Quest Completed (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=47516.msg185169#msg185169)", presumably.
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** Phil.
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The 'Holy Grail' version uses base sauce as well. Regardless, it may be worth me making both of Mick's versions, and the Misty Ricardo one, too. I will see if any of them taste remotely like the balti chicken dishes I had at Shababs. My recollection is that the 2018 and 2020 versions tasted similar, even though they looked different. I think there was more oil than much evidence of base sauce.
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Well, someone (presumably Santa) must know which the "balti from scratch" recipe is, so it would be nice if he were to post a link. I've tried twice, and seemingly been wrong twice, but "you're wrong." is nowhere near as helpful as "you're wrong, the correct link is ...".
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** Phil.
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Is this the from scratch one?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiXF_TG1_8I&t=188s&ab_channel=TheBaltiBrothers
Looks like a total fail from the off, imo:
Rob
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Or maybe this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05UlbJWsDH0), from Chef Syed, although I don't think that it had previously been mentioned on this forum ...
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** Phil.
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I wonder if Livo was mistaken in thinking any of the balti recipes under consideration here are 'from scratch' as in without the use of base sauce.
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I posted the link to the recipe for Balti Cicken (from fresh ingredients, ie: not base gravy) further up the page. Yes, it is the Balti Brothers (Rishton) and that video is almost identical to the linked recipe of Chef Zaf Hussain's recipe (ie: Shababs). From memory the difference is Shababs uses Cumin, Rishton doesn't.
Here it is again: https://curryculture.co.uk/balti-recipe/ (https://curryculture.co.uk/balti-recipe/)
The reason I suggested George cook this first Santa, is because it will be quick, easy and cheap to produce one single dish. From this George could then provide an answer to many questions. I've tried all of them, MDB's, Misty Ricardo's version of Shababs and the from scratch (Shababs / Rishton).
If the single dish from scratch is similar to, or the same as, the Shababs Baltis George has tried, then we know that's it. This would also confirm that it isn't anything like MDBs base gravy dish (a 100% clone from a different restaurant). I can tell you already, they aren't the same. The 2 Shababs methods are similar to each other but the base gravy method is very strongly spiced. My family found it too spicy. I liked it.
If George says that the Baltis he tried at Shababs were less flavoured I'd then suggest he tries MDB's base. If he thinks they were more spiced then I'd suggest he tries Misty Ricardo's Shababs Balti base gravy.
Easiest things first, process of elimination, basic problem solving.
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Is this the from scratch one?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiXF_TG1_8I&t=188s&ab_channel=TheBaltiBrothers
Looks like a total fail from the off, imo:
Rob
Yes. That is the other "From Scratch" version. I have to agree with you in that when I first watched it I thought it was way off and I was suspicious of how this guy cooked. No preparation, cutting things up as he was cooking, clumsy, etc. However, in further research I twigged that it is almost identical to Chef Zaf Hussain's Shababs Balti Chicken (from scratch).
The thing is though, apparently this is how a Balti is cooked. Fresh ingredients, high heat, thin steel bowl, etc etc. and I can tell you, that it makes a nice dish. Try it and see for yourself, but remember it is not a BIR curry so don't expect it to be a CTM or a Madras.
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Santa, you are more than likely, or let's say definitely, correct in stating that a busy Balti House like Shababs or Rishton would be cooking their dishes using a base gravy. The fact that Chef Zaf Hussain can be seen in the Andy Munroe / Misty Ricardo video preparing a 50kg onion gravy would pretty well assure this to be the case. However, both Chef Zaf Hussain and Chef Hussain Rashid have provided cook from scratch recipes for Balti Chicken which are almost identical. The idea of a base gravy is to provide a head start towards achieving the same "single serve" presentation in a fast paced, high output setting. So the base gravy in this instance should essentially contain almost everything that can go into the Balti in preparation for fast cooking. Note: The single serve cook is pretty quick anyway.
The confusion for me lies in the fact that Misty Ricardo's take on Chef Zaf's base gravy is more spiced when compared to his stand alone version. I like the single serve dish as it is, so I could very easily adjust the base gravy to suite and mass produce the same dish. I also like the spiced Misty Ricardo Balti Base Gravy, but it is not the same. So we have 2 different supposedly "Real Baltis", purportedly from the same chef, that are different????? The Andy Munroe video does not give the recipe for the Shababs Base Gravy but Richard (Misty) was there so we'd have to hope that his recipe is a replica that he's gone on to provide, but this raises the question. Which one is the REAL BIRMINGHAM BALTI?
Then we have Mick's 100% Clone Balti which is completely different again. I agree with you that we need more people to try it? I found it a really good base gravy but I needed to add other flavourings to it.
Let's look at the "From Scratch Balti Chicken" and compare Shababs with Rishton ingredient by ingredient:
Shababs : Rishton.
Oil 4 TBSP : 4 TBSP (Shababs says vegetable, Rishton states Rapeseed)
Fresh ingredients.
Tomato 1 : 2 (size variation? we can see what Rishton use but not Shababs. They say a medium one.)
Onion 1 : 1 (Shababs says a small one, Rishton says a large one. Subjective)
Green Chilli 2 : 2 (The same for both.)
Garlic and Ginger Shababs use 1 TBSP of puree. Rishton uses fresh 2 - 4 cloves of garlic and 2" piece of ginger.
Chicken Breast 1 breast fillet : 400g (Size of an single chicken breast can vary from 300g up to 500 g over here.)
Spices
Paprika (Shababs) / Kashmiri Chilli Powder (Rishton). Each recipe uses 1 tsp of one or the other. It is my experience that Indian Paprika is the same as KRC powder. I would call this the same or use it as a way to control chilli heat.
Kasuri Methi 1 tsp : 1 pinch (I can easily pinch 1 tsp methi. Call it the same.)
Turmeric 1 tsp: 1/4 TBSP (Over here our TBSP is 20ml and our tsp is 5ml, so the same for me.)
Salt Pinch : To Taste (Call it the same as you can vary to your own liking.)
Garam Masala Pinch : 1/4 TBSP (Why would you give measurements in quarter Tablespoon?)
Cumin powder 1 tsp : nil (This spice is omitted from the Rishton recipe.)
Herbs
Coriander 1 TSBP : 1 Sprig
So there they are. With the exception of Cumin they have all the same ingredients. Quantities of tomato, onion and chicken may or may not be very close and there are subjective sizes given and the difference between 1 chicken breast and 400 g is unknown. For all intents and purposes these recipes are the same. The cooking method is the same so these 2 recipes for a "Real Balti Chicken" from 2 Birmingham Balti Houses must surely give us an understanding of what to expect.
Now, if you look at Misty Ricardo's take on the Shababs Balti Chicken to the final cook, you'll see a lot of similarity. The notable difference is that the base gravy has green and black cardamoms, cassia bark, cloves and tej patta. These add extra spice flavour that does not appear in the cook alone dishes. Easily remedied if needed.
Surely these are Birmingham Baltis. If they're not then there is nowhere to go with this discussion.
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Easiest things first, process of elimination, basic problem solving.
Many thanks. I agree with your suggested approach. I missed the curry culture link before and will now take a look.
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Surely these are Birmingham Baltis. If they're not then there is nowhere to go with this discussion.
In my opinion, it's all getting too confusing. I have to wonder why I am even contemplating trying to replicate a dish from Shebabs which I only rated as 'half decent'. There are so many other dishes more worthy of R&D time spent by me. For example, in the late 1980s, the best lasagnes I'd ever tasted came from Spaghetti House in London and a hotel in Lagos, Nigeria. I managed to devise a lasagne which was probably almost as good as either of these and my satisfaction lasted for decades until I tasted a ragu sauce at a hotel on Malta. This was in a different league and I need to see if I can raise my game. In summary, the Maltese lasagne was far better as a lasagne than Shababs Balti Chicken was as a curry.
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Very nice work there on the balti comparisons livo. It is indeed intriguing that two different balti houses are showing essentially the same from scratch balti recipes.
However, the simple fact is that they all use base sauce in reality. The cook from scratch method they use in these demos is what they show to dupe the public into thinking that this is how they actually cook their baltis so as to maintain the myth of all fresh ingredients. The real baltis are the ones they serve in the balti houses and those are base sauce baltis. I even have my doubts they use raw chicken in anything other than the demo. I'm sure Misty Ricardo could enlighten us as he saw the whole kitchen.
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Your probably right Santa. It's all a mystery to me from where I sit. One day I'll make my way to the place in Sydney that supposedly makes a good balti. All I can do is cook what the recipes show. So far, they've been enjoyable.
George, it's up to you to decide if you want to cook the dish or not. It's a really easy recipe.
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I even have my doubts they use raw chicken in anything other than the demo.
I agree. I avoid using raw chicken in any BIR type dish. The flavour of the chicken juices can dwarf the indian spicing and ruin everything. As well as taking far longer to cook than almost any BIR or Balti establishment has the time for.
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George, it's up to you to decide if you want to cook the dish or not. It's a really easy recipe.
It's not so easy when I need to take stock of all the spices, for a start. Which are out of date and need replacing? Which have been opened more than a couple of days ago. They will need replacing, too, in order to give the recipe (s) a chance of turning out well. Nevertheless, I will probably proceed.
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George, unless your spices are a decade old, they'll be fine as they are. There are 5 commonly used spices plus salt. If your in the slightest bit concerned about the potency of your existing spices just bump the measures up ever so slightly. We aren't measuring to the microgram anyway. Some of my spices are approaching 5 years old, stored in airtight containers in a dark cupboard. While I can agree that fresh potent spices are better, I've not really noticed any diminished performance. I suspected my Cassia Bark age (12 months) may have been a contributing factor to my experience with MDB's base gravy, but it turns out this wasn't the case.
As for cooking from raw chicken, there is one diced breast fillet in a hot pan, but if you're concerned you could always part cook it in a boiled stock or water before cutting it into chunks. I wouldn't go with full BIR pre-cook though as that will change the flavour of the dish and negate any experimental value of your resulting appraisal. As a next step to improving the dish it may well be worth trying though.
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Is this the from scratch one?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiXF_TG1_8I&t=188s&ab_channel=TheBaltiBrothers
Looks like a total fail from the off, imo:
Rob
Yes. That is the other "From Scratch" version. I have to agree with you in that when I first watched it I thought it was way off and I was suspicious of how this guy cooked. No preparation, cutting things up as he was cooking, clumsy, etc. However, in further research I twigged that it is almost identical to Chef Zaf Hussain's Shababs Balti Chicken (from scratch).
The thing is though, apparently this is how a Balti is cooked. Fresh ingredients, high heat, thin steel bowl, etc etc. and I can tell you, that it makes a nice dish. Try it and see for yourself, but remember it is not a BIR curry so don't expect it to be a CTM or a Madras.
Hi Livo. Oops! I missed your earlier link to the Balti Bros, apols. Tend to dismiss anything balti-related unless it involves a base gravy. The Rishton fresh balti is pretty old. Almost sure it was tested on here in the past; could have been by Phil. Phil? Sure someone checked it out, can't find it. My memory may be going. Also, forgive my smugness, but ever since Mick's recipe I'm sticking with full-on balti perfect, as opposed to just a "nice" dish. :)
Just making Misty Ricardo's Shababs base gravy. On the bubble; looks promising. Not sure about the 1 L water (on top of a full can of tomatoes) in the recipe. Suspect he means 1/2 L, or a perhaps a pint. Will see how it goes; can always add some more water later if necessary.
Rob
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Santa, you are more than likely, or let's say definitely, correct in stating that a busy Balti House like Shababs or Rishton would be cooking their dishes using a base gravy. The fact that Chef Zaf Hussain can be seen in the Andy Munroe / Misty Ricardo video preparing a 50kg onion gravy would pretty well assure this to be the case. However, both Chef Zaf Hussain and Chef Hussain Rashid have provided cook from scratch recipes for Balti Chicken which are almost identical. The idea of a base gravy is to provide a head start towards achieving the same "single serve" presentation in a fast paced, high output setting. So the base gravy in this instance should essentially contain almost everything that can go into the Balti in preparation for fast cooking. Note: The single serve cook is pretty quick anyway.
The confusion for me lies in the fact that Misty Ricardo's take on Chef Zaf's base gravy is more spiced when compared to his stand alone version. I like the single serve dish as it is, so I could very easily adjust the base gravy to suite and mass produce the same dish. I also like the spiced Misty Ricardo Balti Base Gravy, but it is not the same. So we have 2 different supposedly "Real Baltis", purportedly from the same chef, that are different????? The Andy Munroe video does not give the recipe for the Shababs Base Gravy but Richard (Misty) was there so we'd have to hope that his recipe is a replica that he's gone on to provide, but this raises the question. Which one is the REAL BIRMINGHAM BALTI?
Then we have Mick's 100% Clone Balti which is completely different again. I agree with you that we need more people to try it? I found it a really good base gravy but I needed to add other flavourings to it.
Let's look at the "From Scratch Balti Chicken" and compare Shababs with Rishton ingredient by ingredient:
Shababs : Rishton.
Oil 4 TBSP : 4 TBSP (Shababs says vegetable, Rishton states Rapeseed)
Fresh ingredients.
Tomato 1 : 2 (size variation? we can see what Rishton use but not Shababs. They say a medium one.)
Onion 1 : 1 (Shababs says a small one, Rishton says a large one. Subjective)
Green Chilli 2 : 2 (The same for both.)
Garlic and Ginger Shababs use 1 TBSP of puree. Rishton uses fresh 2 - 4 cloves of garlic and 2" piece of ginger.
Chicken Breast 1 breast fillet : 400g (Size of an single chicken breast can vary from 300g up to 500 g over here.)
Spices
Paprika (Shababs) / Kashmiri Chilli Powder (Rishton). Each recipe uses 1 tsp of one or the other. It is my experience that Indian Paprika is the same as KRC powder. I would call this the same or use it as a way to control chilli heat.
Kasuri Methi 1 tsp : 1 pinch (I can easily pinch 1 tsp methi. Call it the same.)
Turmeric 1 tsp: 1/4 TBSP (Over here our TBSP is 20ml and our tsp is 5ml, so the same for me.)
Salt Pinch : To Taste (Call it the same as you can vary to your own liking.)
Garam Masala Pinch : 1/4 TBSP (Why would you give measurements in quarter Tablespoon?)
Cumin powder 1 tsp : nil (This spice is omitted from the Rishton recipe.)
Herbs
Coriander 1 TSBP : 1 Sprig
So there they are. With the exception of Cumin they have all the same ingredients. Quantities of tomato, onion and chicken may or may not be very close and there are subjective sizes given and the difference between 1 chicken breast and 400 g is unknown. For all intents and purposes these recipes are the same. The cooking method is the same so these 2 recipes for a "Real Balti Chicken" from 2 Birmingham Balti Houses must surely give us an understanding of what to expect.
Now, if you look at Misty Ricardo's take on the Shababs Balti Chicken to the final cook, you'll see a lot of similarity. The notable difference is that the base gravy has green and black cardamoms, cassia bark, cloves and tej patta. These add extra spice flavour that does not appear in the cook alone dishes. Easily remedied if needed.
Surely these are Birmingham Baltis. If they're not then there is nowhere to go with this discussion.
Great analysis Livo. A couple of things. Rishton is Blackburn way. Nearer to Manchester and Leeds, than Birmingham. Preston too (Julian, Curry-to-go). This doesn't negate your argument. As I have said elsewhere, the BB style is not limited to Birmingham. I wonder though if the similarities you identify between the two from scratch chefs are simply one cherry-picking the other's ideas, on swerving how it is really done.
Whilts on C2GO. I recall one of Julian's curry courses included a video of Adey demonstrating Akhni stock in BIR cooking. It was somewhat toe-curling to watch, but interesting in that it highlights the method being used up and down the country.
Rob
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That's all interesting Rob and thanks for clearing up the locations for me. I have very little knowledge of the geography over there.
I remember watching the Rishton video quite a while back but had never tried it until recently. I can't say I recall the discussion here about it.
When I made Misty Ricardo's Balti gravy I followed the recipe (1/2 qty) including 500 ml of water. Once it was sieved it is actually quite a thick sauce so don't be too stingy on water, but as you say you can always add extra later.
I cooked a Balti Prawns last night and I have to say that I'm really enjoying the balti experience (authentic or not). I've been using "Indian paprika" which I've now found to be the source of the Chilli heat / spiciness that my family detected. I like it but I'm not sure if I should be using this or non spicy sweet paprika.
Here's the thread from a few years back about the Rishton Balti. https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=14313.msg125516#msg125516 (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=14313.msg125516#msg125516)
In the video, at about 5.20, while discussing how you should want them from the chefs and the Balti House, he says "as we do cook 'em at home". So it's not a restaurant Balti, which we knew anyway.
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Yet again, I'm not sure. I've been reading over Rishton thread and the huge thread from 2013 (Three Baltis which has been read nearly 220,000 times), and I've again come across things I've seen before, yet missed the significance of. CT posted a link to the 2010 video A square meal in the balti triangle. I remember watching it years ago. Once again we see yet another restaurant chef, Punjab Paradise, cooking a Balti Chicken, from the same basic fresh ingredients in 7 minutes. No balti base gravy is used.
I can also see now how much time and effort has gone into Rob and Mick researching this dish.
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Agreed Livo. And now we need a few more folks to step up to the pan and give Mick’s recipe a bash. This weekend I will be using it as a base to try my beloved vindaloo and will report back with pics.
Robbo
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I've just spent nearly 2 hours reading over (almost) the complete Three Baltis thread, and watching a few linked videos. Several things come up.
Members changing usernames is unhelpful when reading retrospectively. It is only by recognising addressed reply comments to Bengali Bob and Mushroom Mike that we know that Lahore Bob and Invisible Mike are those members.
Post rot is evident. There are several posts that just end mid sentence, and notably, for some reason, especially Chewy Tikka's posts.
I'm still baffled by JerryM's methods of spreadsheet presentation involving codes that only he can understand, (* note) and his shorthand posting style. At one point his recipe was apparently "The Answer" but the recipe never actually appears in a pure form.
Over the period that this Three Baltis thread was active, I was only just starting here on this forum. I can see that I did read it previously (and I remember bits of it). I made only 1 comment late in the thread when Madhur Jaffrey's declared the Balti Craze over and her comments about Balti tasting like mud were discussed. I must have been sampling home brew at the time. :Clown: :clown2: :confusing3:
Where did the Rose Petals and Kewra Water pursuits end up? They don't figure in any of the now 4 fresh ingredient Balti Chicken dishes.
*Note: I remember when I first joined the forum, JerryM sent me his spreadsheets. I was totally confused by his formats. They may make more sense to me now.
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Must read the 3B thread myself and Jerry's spreadsheet if I can find it. Those were the days hunting the elusive Adil's formula. I made a nice stock with chicken feet:)
As I remember Jerry and I were trialling kewra with tandoori masala powder and felt it was close to Adil's weird and wonderful perfume. I am not so sure now. It'll be something simple, ajwain is very likely to be involved, maybe rose petal too.
The kewra idea tracks back to the Kushi, where the chef there suggested adding it to his base gravy (Authentic Balti Curry) in response to complaints that the book recipe failed to deliver.
It does make my smile that Mick managed to sort it all out, brilliantly.
Rob (AKA Bengali Bob)
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dont forget the powdered unicorn horn Rob lol
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dont forget the powdered unicorn horn Rob lol
Do you get that at Raja Bros? I'll probably need to mail order.
I once bought a bottle of Kewra water, but I can't remember why. It may have been in some recipe for one of those ridiculous Kormas that has about 50 spices. I would seriously doubt any use of this or Rose Petals in anything really.
Have you still been experimenting Mick, or are you satisfied that you've cracked the Al Frash Balti? One of the interesting points to come out of the Three Baltis thread for me is the apparent lack of consistency in these Balti Houses. Towards the end of the thread there are some poor feelings expressed about the offerings of Al Frash. (It may have even been you who wrote it. Can't remember. Edit see below.) This appears to be a common theme when you read online reviews of all of the "Balti House" experiences.
I have eaten Baltis from Al Frash quite a few times. One of my friends always picks up a takeaway from there whenever he eats there. One thing I will say is how inconsistent they are.
Well I have just eaten my 4th Balti from Al Frash in the last couple of weeks, and firstly I must say how unbelievably inconsistent they have been! The first two were bog standard chicken Baltis. Both the flavour and texture of the two dishes were like chalk and cheese. The first one was absolutely delicious - as I expected, and consistent with what I have tasted before. The second one which I left in the fridge for a couple of days was one of the worst curries I have ever eaten!! The only redeeming factor/taste was a definite chicken stock taste to it. In fact that was the only taste. That curry was cooked on a saturday night so I cant see that it was cooked by a stand in chef. It was pale and watery. Very disappointing.
So going to Al Frash could score you an absolutely delicious Balti or one of the worst curries you've ever eaten. By all accounts (from what I've read in online reviews), going to Shababs is much the same. Very hit or miss. Many complaints about food quality, poor serving size, woeful customer service and added surcharges. Other people love it.
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Yes, Sounds about right to me. They can botch them spectacularly. It all adds to the intrigue. The offering I had from Shababs recently was a gold medal botch though. Dog rough. So bad it was actually impressive.
I made Misty Ricardo's Shababs Balti Chicken recipe last night. First impressions. Very good indeed. Authentic Birmingham balti. Look forward to comparing it with Mick's masterclass standard.
Last week I went to the Harper's Hill factory to pick up one of their balti bowls, for presentation. Thinking now I should have bought two.
harpershill.co.uk/product/balti-bowl/
I'll be making a trip to Ladypool Road soon for another Shababs Balti. A double portion of their lovely seekh kebabs too. Wish me luck.
Rob
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Unbelievable!!! I cannot understand how the supposed pillars of the Birmingham Balti "Experience" can survive, given they are such a hit or miss affair. I feel very sorry for you poor people over there.
There is a multi-award winning Indian restaurant about 20 km away from my home. It used to be 4 km away until I moved house. The establishment has been is business for over 30 years and I know I could go there tonight and be guaranteed a brilliant curry meal. I could take many guests and there spice tolerance would be catered to. Nobody would leave thinking they had been served anything other than good food. There is an average (small operation) restaurant 2 km down the road. I know I can always go there and get excellent food, any time they are open. For goodness sake, we can buy good curry at the local supermall food hall. None of it has made any claim to being a rare memory of 1970's Birmingham, but it is all good curry nevertheless. How sad!! :tears: :tears:
Mind you, I suppose there is a reason why 400 supposed Balti Houses now number only 4.
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Crikey. Have you never had a dodgy takeaway livo? I've had absolutely loads (a lifetime) of them, not just in Birmingham, well, everywhere I have ever been in England. Must be good where you are.
I have also experienced the best-of-the-best in the Balti Triangle, imo. The sheer magic of the Birmingham balti, so I am OK with a dodgy one, occasionally. A bigger problem for me is mediocrity. Poor to average curry, bland and boring. I don't accept bland curry.
The demise of the balti here I feel is more complicated than you conclude. But keeping it curry related, one contributor, I feel, will be the huge number of takeaways/restaurants that have popped-up everywhere, banging out boring and bland curry. A lot of people accept it. No travel needed. Order on-line. Stick it on the card. Get the kids their nuggets and fries too. A lot of children in England believe that chicken nuggets grow on trees. I kid you not. Perhaps people have just forgotten the balti. It is a pity.
From a selfish perspective I am truly over-the-moon with Mick's perfect Al Frash recipe. I am not looking for the balti anymore (Adils aside). It's already right in front of me. I am just curious to see if any of the remaining true balti houses can still match it, or even get close.
Rob
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There's a "from scratch" recipe here:
http://titlisbusykitchen.com/recipe/chicken-balti (http://titlisbusykitchen.com/recipe/chicken-balti)
I haven't tried it yet, but the spice mix makes a nice mix powder for standard BIR curry cooking.
Balti Spice Mix:
5 tsp garam masala
4 tsp coriander powder
2½ tsp gram flour (besan)
2½ tsp garlic powder
2 tsp cumin powder
2 tsp fenugreek powder
2 tsp paprika
2 tsp turmeric
½ tsp ground ginger
½ tsp chilli powder
½ tsp cinnamon powder
½ tsp black pepper
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I have experienced sub par Indian on only 2 occasions I can recall. One was a takeaway lamb pasanda that was all gravy and hardly any lamb. It was still a nice curry but only sauce with about 3 pieces of lamb. The other, from a different place, was chicken tikka that had been kept warm for way too long and was bone dry and crunchy.
I don't often buy curry any more since I cook my own but on the odd occasion when I do, I'm never disappointed. In fact, most of the time it makes me feel that my own (BIR) efforts are somewhat still lacking. There's that missing bit again.
Fish 'n' chips though, that's another story. What used to be staple is now rubbish. Surprisingly, it is almost impossible to buy decent deep fried, battered fish and the worst I've come across lately is at the Sydney Fish Market. Who would have thought that the biggest outlet of fresh fish, with food service outlets, cannot produce a decent fish cocktail?
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Two Baltis.
Could they be any more different? There are still similarities though!
Here are 2 "Balti" dish videoes, I watched this morning. They are not the same dish (one is Chicken Tikka and the other is Chicken & Spinach) but they are both claimed to be Balti.
The Birmingham Balti cooks the chicken from raw again, while the BIR uses pre-cooked (it's Tikka so can't be avoided really). I think the different approaches taken by the chefs is important as it clearly demonstrates the differences between Birmingham and BIR (to me anyway). There are some very informative moments in the commentary of both.
The first one is a follow on from the Misty Ricardo and Andy Munro visit to the kitchen of Shababs and again cooked by Chef Zaf. This looks like a really nice curry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H77IzOvx04 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H77IzOvx04)
An interesting thing here is the quantity of Paprika used. If I used 1 TBSP of my Indian Paprika (which is 4 tsp or even UK 3 tsp) it would be way too hot so I must assume it is only Sweet Paprika, but then there is only 1 green chilli added otherwise. I have nothing to go on as a guide to how this should be regarding chilli heat. This clearly shows the use of his restaurant version of Base Gravy, which his cook from scratch Chicken Balti did not. There is no full description of exactly how the pre-cooked spinach is done so it's a stab in the dark to try to replicate this, but I think you could get pretty close to what is supposed to be the real Shababs Birmingham Chicken & Spinach Balti if you use Misty Ricardo's version of the Shababs Base Gravy and some form of Indian pre-cooked spinach. I'll definitely be giving this a try and I have one serving of base gravy left.
The second Balti is demonstrated by Latif and there are 2 interesting things in this Chicken Tikka Balti.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZLFHYpHsuQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZLFHYpHsuQ)
He clearly states that when it comes to adding the spices, he would normally use his mixed powder. Instead he breaks it down and uses stated quantities of single spice powders. This could be his 5 spice Mixed Powder. :omg: :omg: He uses Balti paste. Yes indeed, and he shows a big bottle of commercial Patak's Balti Paste, but he then says he makes his own using yogurt and spices (undisclosed) and uses this in the dish instead. We don't know what this is and using different paste will obviously give different results. Anyway, I'll need to fire up the tandoor to cook a bit of Tikka to try this one out.
There are of course many similarities in ingredients, but perhaps not the quantities used (eg; capsicum) but to me these 2 dishes illustrate the difference between the Birmingham Balti and the BIR Balti.
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...he would normally use his mixed powder. Instead he breaks it down and uses stated quantities of single spice powders....
He uses Balti paste. Yes indeed, and he shows a big bottle of commercial Patak's Balti Paste, but he then says he makes his own using yogurt and spices (undisclosed) and uses this in the dish instead.
I have long since lost any interest in someone (2nd link) who is trying to instruct me in anything and says they normally use (A) but you can use x+y+z to make it instead. Mix Powders for example, all invariably use Curry Powder but then what is in the Curry Powder mix has been a discussion before. We aren't all about to go down that Rabbit hole again of what is in a Curry Powder and in what proportions.
When they (Chef's) say they are using a particular product, like a custom Paste or a family recipe for Garam Masala etc, to create the product they are trying to endorse, they can't (to my mind) then be vague about it and suggest a different product and imply you will get the same result. Surely it is the exact result they are trying to demonstrate that we want to achieve? Am I being too critical and they are just really trying to show me how to cook onions and boil water?
I have watched a few and as soon as I see this, I just write-off anything else that chef might have uploaded or be broadcasting... 'Fool me once..'
(cynical) BAJ
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Your links are a good comparison between Pakistani and Bangladeshi style balti livo. Following George's review of Latifs I looked up their curry house menu. They apparently make their own "secret" blend of sweet and spicy balti paste.
Was thinking back to when I did deliveries for a local Bangladeshi TA. The balti wasn't their most popular offering on the menu, but they still sold a load of it. A basic curry with a good dollop of balti paste. Recall talking to the owner about it and that the Birmingham balti was different. Yes, he said, that's Pakistani cooking, they do it different to us. He showed me a jar of the paste they used and pointed at the label saying balti. He then pointed at a pan (with a curry underway) and said, balti. Not Pataks then? I asked. He replied, smiling, no, Patak's is the best, but it's way too expensive.
Echo Bob's thoughts on channels where descriptions are vague. Another one I am wary of is where the chef keeps saying we are just going to do it the "easy way".
Yes, the Shababs Balti chicken and spinach does look good. I am getting along nicely with the Misty balti base. Made Balti chicken and mushroom with it last night; will post a couple of pics later today. It's top notch Birmingham balti. Whilst I can't compare it yet with an actual Shababs-made balti (not botched), I am fairly confident the Shababs balti recipe is also nailed. I suspect the paprika is used mainly to add colour/sweetness.
Last night's cooking didn't go entirely to plan. I may have had one too many Cobra's. Managed to overload the pan with oil (and gravy) so had to do a fair amount of spooning off; first time I have needed to do this. The spoon-off went into a TA container. The result looked very familiar. A dead-ringer for the one I binned. I suspect all it needs is a few bits of chicken, a CS of mustard oil (or similar) and a good handful of kasoori methi stirred in, to finish it off. Somewhat worrying me thinks.
Rob
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Another one I am wary of is where the chef keeps saying we are just going to do it the "easy way".
That's a favourite expression in Latif's videos. It's so incredibly irritating and a huge turn-off. As for Latif, given the restaurant curry I tried was so bad, it's hard to imagine how it will be even worse after being 'simplified' (i.e. dumbed-down) for the video.
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I agree BAJ, that it's pretty annoying when you think you're about to see and learn something, only to find that you're actually not. Pretty pointless really, but there are still useful snippets of information to be learned from these masked videos. For instance, it's interesting that Latif's balti paste is yoghurt based. Anyway, I've asked the questions. Let's wait and see if there are answers forthcoming.
On the other hand, what we're learning from Shababs appears to be the full picture.
I've just cooked a new batch of the Misty Ricardo Shababs balti gravy. This time I used sweet (non heating) paprika and I removed the whole spices. I used the last of my spicy batch to make the Chicken and Spinach Balti. Home grown spinach pre-cooked with onion, ginger, garlic, spices and yoghurt. The Balti is a winner. I've put it in the fridge for tomorrow's dinner and I'll be making Mrs L a Chicken spinach and shitake mushroom balti using the new gravy.
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Searching through the Balti hits on Youtube is a bit like a Trash and Treasure yard sale. A lot of rubbish and then a gem.
If the Birmingham Balti is based on the Pakistani dish then this could be it. This is in Hindi / Urdu and is presented by a lady by the name of Sehar Syed, 9 November 2015. It has ingredients listed in English which is really helpful. There are many similarities in ingredients to the cook from fresh versions previously discussed and the cooking process and sequence is pretty well the same. There are a few differences though, one of which is a feature in Latif's Balti, and that is yogurt. The other things different are that she uses chicken on the bone, also the addition of Cream at the end as well as Lemon Juice and it is garnished with flash fried Green Chillis and slices of Ginger Root. It is cooked in a Balti Pan on a home gas cooker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS0U5T4H6nw&t=451s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS0U5T4H6nw&t=451s)
The ingredient list.
1 Chicken cut into curry pieces
2 Tomatoes chopped
1 Onion chopped
1 cup Yogurt
1 TBSP Red Chilli Powder (I would experiment with this but it is for a whole chicken.)
1 TBSP Ground Coriander
1/2 tsp Turmeric
1/2 tsp Garam Masala (listed as all spice but pretty sure it's GM.)
1 TBSP Kasuri Methi
1/2 TBSP Ground Cumin
1/2 TBSP Salt
3-4 TBSP Cream
1 TBSP Garlic and Ginger chopped
4-5 Green Chilli (used in the initial and garnish stages)
Ginger slices (garnish)
2-3 TBSP Lemon Juice (although I can only see half a lemon she pours juice from a bowl.)
1/2 cup Vegetable Oil
Handful of chopped fresh Coriander (garnish not listed).
The cooking sequence is pretty well standard with spices added at 2 stages. I see no reason why this couldn't be adapted to use boneless chicken or even using a base gravy approach. I'll be giving this a try.
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Lamb Balti at home.
I cooked this one last night to have with the remnants of the Chicken and Spinach Baltis. I managed to buy 3 price-reduced easy carve legs of lamb the other day. I gave one to my daughter and her partner, froze one and baked the other last night for the family. They are over eating my Balti experiments, so I cut the top end off it before putting it in the oven. Probably about 1 lb or 450g. It was a 2 kg leg and I took just under 1/4 of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW-1hMiHC8U&t=21s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW-1hMiHC8U&t=21s)
The video says "without Base Gravy" but I made a few modifications to allow using MR's Shababs gravy. I just used less onion and tomato and substituted base gravy for the water. I also started it out with some reclaimed oil from my last lamb pre-cook mixed with butter ghee 50/50 and I added about a TBSP of my home made Balti Paste. First stages were cooked in an open stove-top aluminium pressure cooker, then the lid was put on for 30 minutes under pressure. Final ingredients were then added and I simmered if for about 20 minutes. Delicious, thick, meaty, fall-apart tender Lamb Balti.
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Looks a very simple recipe. I love a lamb curry. Picked up some ground lamb this week to make keema pilau and maybe some nice kebabs.
Robbo
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I had another helping last night Robbo. It's really good.
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It's really pleasing to see the forum with so much traffic. I had to search back a fair bit to find this thread again. This is a post about the "B" word, obviously. I'm about to cook a dish I've cooked before. I once did a side by side of a BIR style and a Trad style Chicken Madras and looking back at the recipe I see that it was a "Balti Chicken Madras". So, there may be some evidence to support the Al Frash menu possibilities.
The recipe comes from my Curry Encyclopaedia, but I decided to look through the book for the "B" word. Unfortunately, Balti is not cross-referenced in the index under B, but I did find 15 Balti recipes under Chicken, and another 10 under Lamb. I will scan through the index to see if I can find other instances, but I'll post a list of the dishes I have found so far here. If you're interested in any let me know. There are actually a couple that could come from the Al Frash menu which I found interesting.
Chicken.
Balti Butter Chicken
Balti Chicken in Lentil Sauce
Balti Chicken in Hara Masala Sauce
Balti Chicken in Saffron Rice
Balti Chicken in Tamarind Sauce
Balti Chicken in thick creamy coconut sauce
Balti Chicken Madras (this is the recipe I've cooked and adjusted for side by side).
Balti Chicken Passanda (who knew?)
Balti Chicken pieces with Cumin and Coriander
Balti Chicken Vindaloo (who knew?)
Balti Chicken w/ dahl and leeks
Balti Chicken w/ green and red chillies
Balti Chicken w/ paneer and peas
Balti Chicken w/ vegetables
Balti Chilli Chicken
Lamb.
Balti Bhoona Lamb
Balti Lamb Chops w/ potatoes
Balti Lamb in yogurt
Balti Lamb Koftas w/ vegetables
Balti Lamb Tikka (I have lamb loin chops defrosting as I type)
Balti Lamb w/ Cauliflower
Balti Lamb w/ peas and potatoes
Balti Lamb w/ potatoes and Fenugreek (might try this one as well)
Balti Lamb w/ stuffed vegetables
Balti mini Lamb Kebabs
So, it will be interesting to look through these 25 recipes to find the similarities and differences. If you'd like to try one, let me know and I'll PM you the recipe.
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I once did a side by side of a BIR style and a Trad style Chicken Madras
So (I have to ask) what is "a Trad[itional] style Chicken Madras" ? A BIR-style one I understand, since it is the BIR industry that introduced the term, but for the life of me I cannot imagine what "A Trad[itional] style Chicken Madras" is ...
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** Phil.
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Yeah Phil. I understand your point. What is going on, now that you point it out, is that the recipe does not involve the BIR method, ie, does not use a base gravy. It uses the cook from fresh, individual ingredients style of cooking normally associated with traditional style but it is probably not a traditional dish, as you say.
I once cooked and posted about a side by side test I did in converting this recipe to BIR method. Knowing now about the cook from scratch Balti dishes shown by Rishton and Shababs chefs, and in light of the fact that this recipe is for Balti Chicken Madras, I guess it is a British (Birmingham) dish.
It is a recipe using individual ingredients cooked in the style of those Birmingham Baltis that aren't cooked the way Birmingham Baltis are really cooked. Savvy?
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Er, well, sort of ... :)
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According to Wikipedia Madras curry or Madras sauce has its origins in the city of Madras (now Chennai) in southern India.
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Wikipedia not to be trusted. Can be written by any old fool, like me even. I’ve been to Chennai a number of times (my God it’s hot and humid there) and no way is Madras in any way related to that place.
Regarding the B word, when I took my Indian cookery night school back in the early 90’s, My mate made the mistake when grumpy teacher Rajnee asked if we had any particular dishes we’d like her to help us cook. I asked her to show us vindaloo but he asked for Balti.
The indignant reply was along the lines of “WHAT!?? Balti is a bucket! You want to cook in a bucket?” She was a diminutive little thing but firey. We never did cook the B word, and I only have one printed recipe with me, that I shared here some time back. Happy times.
Robbo
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I agree Robbo but there does appear to be some element of relationship between the dish and that part of Southern india. This is a typical blog introduction to the dish. It does add weight to Phil's observation as well.
Madras curry originated in southern India and became popular among British colonizers and merchants during the 1600s, but the name “Madras curry” actually didn’t come about until it was introduced to British restaurants in the 1970s. Over the years it has been developed and reimagined several different ways, with the resulting dish usually consisting of a deep red-colored, rich and spicy sauce.
Regardless, it again illustrates the confused nature of Indian cookery nomenclature, where the word Madras describes an actual dish, a measure of the chilli heat level and a type of curry powder.
I don't give a lot of credence to the notion of the bucket. While it may well be a literal translation between language, I'd say the more likely correlation is to the food prepared in the region of Baltistan in a cooking vessel similar to a wok. I had to laugh the other day when I read a blog for a Balti recipe that had a photograph of the dish actually presented in what appeared to be tin-plated actual bucket. However, those bucket-shaped serving vessels are available in stainless steel and that Indian Copper / SS combination. Has any establishment over there ever actually cooked and served food in an actual bucket? I doubt it.
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Double quantity of Balti Chicken Madras. Recipe modified to incorporate last portion of Misty Ricardo Balti base gravy.
Also, here is an interesting Balti Chicken recipe (not from Birmingham or even the UK). Cooked in a ceramic casserole on top of a cast iron tawa using and electric hob. The list of ingredients is right at the end of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg3pxNQAR1U&list=WL&index=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg3pxNQAR1U&list=WL&index=1)
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Nice colour that Madras is livo, stands out in the white pot. Perhaps this is a reason a lot of the fancy BIRs here (I guess everywhere) often serve in white porcelain. It's too modern for me. The last time I went for a proper sit-down curry my Vindaloo arrived in a white square pasta dish. Most off-putting. This was after the poppadoms, which were served pre-broken, into small pieces. I nearly walked out.
The balti in your vid link is standard handi cooking all day long. I basically lived on a similar recipe throughout the lock-downs. Very good indeed and easy to do. Gives me an idea. Also planning to move the balti cooking onto chicken thighs and reserve the breast for tikka, and stuff. It makes sense to me. Better taste and you can still get fresh UK chicken thighs here for £2.25/kg, or less.
Rob
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The bowl is not what I'd call modern LB. It's probably at least 20 years old and just what I grabbed from the cupboard as the double quantity dish wouldn't fit in my usual "Indian" serving bowls.
The dish was quite enjoyable but the conversion to BIR or Balti using gravy went a bit askew. The problem being that I used triple concentrate Tomato Paste, which on top of the already tomato rich base gravy made for a very tomatoey dish. I did it in a bit of a rush for something to eat. When I did it last time as the side by side, I was more careful, and the dishes were barely discernibly different. The concentration of tomato pastes and purees etc is something to watch out for.
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The YouTube search engine / algorithm is a strange thing. You can search for something over and over, and with variations in how you word your search, and get served the same "popular" videos from the same "popular" channels, and often with nothing to do with the search criteria. Then, out of the blue, you'll be shown / offered an exact match to the words you've searched for that has never been displayed to you previously.
Anyway, here are a few links to some videos that popped up for me this morning.
The first one by Videojug is a video of a restaurant chef, (she isn't dressed like one) Shahena Ali from the Maharaja in Benfleet, Essex. Titled "How to make Chicken Balti", this video is the oldest I've seen on Youtube so far at 13 years being uploaded in 2009. A point of interest here is the use of yogurt, which I've now noticed coming up quite a lot in these Chicken Balti videos, particularly those from India, but apparently not ever in Birmingham Balti. No Balti Paste in this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz7Qg70xyYI&list=WL&index=3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz7Qg70xyYI&list=WL&index=3)
The second is a lady named Niamh Shields who beat Misty Ricardo to the Shababs kitchen by about 5 years. Again, it's the same Shababs Chicken Balti with chef Zaf Hussain. Unfortunately, it is terribly edited and has large gaps, but it does show a considerable level of consistency to the recent videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-HxmACgdEs&list=WL&index=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-HxmACgdEs&list=WL&index=1)
Lastly is a bit of light relief and clearly not a Birmingham or BIR Balti. This one is in Hindi and is for Balti Gosht using mutton (I think he says baby goat). This could be where the use of the bucket is taken a bit too literally. :clown2: :Clown:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGxwBSlamwM&list=WL&index=2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGxwBSlamwM&list=WL&index=2)
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I was going through an old "Curry Notebook" of mine, and I came across a handwritten recipe I'd scribbled down. I have no recollection of where I found it, but it is for a "Simple Balti Chicken". I must have cooked it, but I don't recall how I felt about it, so I guess I'll need to do it again. While it isn't a proper BIR base gravy, it does have two parts, which is a gravy followed by making the curry.
For the Gravy:
Make a paste of 1/2 a large onion, 2-3 cloves of garlic, 1 TBSP ginger and 1 green chilli.
Heat 1TBSP of oil and add pinch of hing, 1/2 tsp onion seed, 1/2 tsp cumin seed and fry for 30 seconds to a minute.
Add the paste and cook for 3 - 5 minutes.
Add 1 tsp coriander powder, 1 tsp turmeric, 1/2 tsp ground fenugreek seed and chilli powder to taste. Cook for 1 minute.
Add 1 TBSP tomato paste, 1 cup of tomato puree (passata) and 1 tsp of honey (or jaggery / sugar) with 100 ml of water. Cook for 5 minutes.
Check and adjust spice level.
That's the gravy done. I'd made a note of Salt??? so, I think I may have added some, but I guess you can adjust at the end.
For the Balti.
Chop the other half of the onion and 1/4 of a green capsicum.
Wedge 2 small tomatoes.
Cut 2 chicken breasts into chunks.
Heat 1 - 2 TBSP oil in a pan.
Add another pinch of hing, the chopped onion and capsicum and cook for 3 minutes.
Add the chicken and 1/4 tsp of salt and cook till chicken is nearly done.
Add the gravy and cook to reduce and finish the chicken.
When nearly done, add the tomatoes, 2 tsp of garam masala and 50 ml of stirred yogurt.
Simple Chicken Balti, done.
Looking at this recipe now, there is one obvious thing missing, which I will definitely add when I do it again. Fresh coriander. I guess you could also put some green chilli in as well to add flavour and a bit of heat. There is opportunity to add other flavours to this by including different spices in the gravy. Ajwain, cinnamon / cassia, fennel, cardamom, etc. I might even experiment with a blob of homemade Balti paste.
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Looks like that covers all the bases (sic) Livo.
I’ll give that a bash, maybe Sunday. Tonight we’re having the family over but it’s Italian fare so zero input from me.
Robbo