Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Cory Ander on February 09, 2010, 12:59 PM
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Apart from the obvious (i.e. that we like it, which is fair enough!), how do we otherwise best determine/benchmark how our BIR curry cooking exploits are going?
Assuming that we'd like to reproduce the taste, texture and smell of our favourite British Indian Restaurant curries (which might not apply to everyone), which of their curries should we attempt to replicate and compare ours to?
Is it their madras (or vindaloo, phal, or other hot curries)? I don't think so. The taste is influenced by the addition of chilli, etc. This rules madras (or similar curries) out as a suitable benchmark.
Is it their korma (or passanda or other mild curries)? I don't think so; the taste is influenced by the addition of cream, nuts, etc. This rules korma (or similar curries) out as a benchmark.
My view is that we should compare it to the simplest. least adulterated curry that they make. To my mind this is their basic "meat/chicken curry". The taste, texture and smell of this is simply a combination of their curry base, minimal additional spicing and cooking technique. They add very few other ingredients that mask the taste, texture and smell.
So, in my opinion, when we are appraising our BIR curry cooking capabilities, we should be comparing it to their basic meat/chicken curry (or, at least, some other simple and unadulterated BIR curry).
What do other members think (I often see their madras proposed which, I think, is largely inappropriate)?
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CA,
interesting idea. how to benchmark for me would need to offer some benefit. i'd love to establish a BIR map or jigsaw and identify how big the evelope is across the members. not easy to do though - effectively a condensed version of the site.
i guess starting with one dish as u say is at least a starting point. i'd even say leave the meat out.
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Is it their korma (or passanda or other mild curries)? I don't think so; the taste is influenced by the addition of cream, nuts, etc. This rules korma (or similar curries) out as a benchmark.
How can that be right? My BIR benchmarks are the best dishes I've tasted in BIRs. I've tasted BIR kormas which are better than any kormas I've ever made. It's mainly the overall flavour which impressed me. That's what I'm trying to emulate.
Similarly with each of the other dishes including pilau rice, samosas, naan bread and chicken dhansak. My benchmark in each case is the best I've ever tasted, generally from different restaurants. It helps, of course, where the restaurants are local and still serve the dishes. My memory of the taste of a superb meat samosa I enjoyed in India over 10 years ago, is a bit more hazy and it's almost impossible to buy a serving to compare with what I try and produce at home these days.
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But who ever orders a "chicken curry"? In all the years I've been going out to eat or ordering a take away, I can't remember anyone ordering that, even though it's always on the menu.
Some people know they like heat and go for the obvious ones. Some are new to curry, and go for creamy, mild, fruity ones, or house specials which always appeal to first timers. I would imagine a plain chicken curry to be rather bland (especially if it's just base sauce with minimal additions).
I think your benchmark should be what your favourite dish is... and if that happens to be the standard chicken curry, then fine!
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This is a very interesting question, perhaps a seemingly simple question but one where the answers are complex, perhaps even infinitely complex. I think the notion of a benchmark is a complicated one for the following reasons:
a "benchmark" is a standard by which something can be judged and I have underlined three words in this definition which I will take in turn.
OK so we are talking about a standard, that is, something considered by an authority or by general consent as a basis of comparison; an approved model. I don't believe there is such a thing when it comes to curries and this is evident in the difference in quality amongst takeaways in the UK which can vary from the sublime to the ridiculous. For sure there are many people on this site chasing a standard but to be a little "zen" for a moment, the journey may be as important as the destination. I for one don't have a specific benchmark and this topic has made me wonder why that is the case. I don't have a favourite curry house, though there are several in my home town that I like and one in Edinburgh that I always go to. I don't have a favourite curry either. I like madras, bhuna, pathia, korma etc and I usually don't know what I'm going to order when I go into a BIR. I think I've eaten enough curries over the last 30 years to know the difference between a good one and not. A common experience for me when I go to a restaurant (BIR and other cuisine) is to be largely unimpressed when others are raving and I come away thinking, "yeah that was OK but nothing that I couldn't do at home". I don't think I'm a food snob and I'm not claiming to be Jean Christophe Novelli either. It's just that my threshold sets my standard.
The something is what CA is referring to, i.e. which particular curry should be the benchmark? He is suggesting for example that a madras is not suitable because of the chilli element. Therefore the something has so many variables which makes pinning down the standard very difficult.
Lastly there is the notion of judging. Some think a madras should have lemon juice and others think this is sacrilege.
Maybe I should think about setting a benchmark for myself, e.g. make a pathia every week for the next six months, using a different base/recipe. Do I have the appetite to do so though? I'm not sure but it's an interesting thread all the same.
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interesting idea. how to benchmark for me would need to offer some benefit
The clear benefit is that you can simply determine how good the combination of your curry base and cooking technique is.
If you can't cook a replica basic BIR meat/chicken curry, then you're missing something, in my opinion. It's about the most unadulterated BIR curry that you can get.
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How can that be right? My BIR benchmarks are the best dishes I've tasted in BIRs.
I think you're missing my point George.
Of course we wish to reproduce our favourite curries but those curries often have so many other ingredients in them that they can conceal the basic constituents of a BIR curry - namely the curry base and the cooking technique. Without them being right the subsequent curries are unlikely to be right. Hence the REAL test of whether we can faithfully reproduce decent BIR curries is whether or not we can reproduce the simplest ones.
I take your point about the other types of dishes (e.g. rice), of course, where the curry base plays no part.
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But who ever orders a "chicken curry"?
I think you're also missing my point Gezh. This is about testing whether or not we have the basics in place (i.e. curry base and cooking technique) for making BIR curries.
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a "benchmark" is a standard by which something can be judged and I have underlined three words in this definition which I will take in turn.
Nice post Stephen, your definition is a good one thanks :)
But I really don't think it's complex. I'm simply saying the best test of whether or not we can truly emulate BIR curries is whether or not we can cook their simplest (most unadulterated) curries.
This distills the comparison down to the absolute basics (i.e. curry base, minimal spicing and cooking technique).
I'm surprised that people are having a problem with the concept :-\
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OK so we are talking about a standard, that is, something considered by an authority or by general consent as a basis of comparison; an approved model. I don't believe there is such a thing when it comes to curries and this is evident in the difference in quality amongst takeaways in the UK which can vary from the sublime to the ridiculous.
I'm not talking about any universal standard here Stephen. It's something you set yourself based on the BIRs that you're trying to emulate (in your case, the sublime BIR rather than the ridiculous BIR, of course).
The something is what CA is referring to, i.e. which particular curry should be the benchmark? He is suggesting for example that a madras is not suitable because of the chilli element. Therefore the something has so many variables which makes pinning down the standard very difficult
Precisely!
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CA,
i'm sure most don't have a problem with what u are suggesting - i'm really keen on the idea - i see it as a way off identifying what my gap is or even if it really exists.
Stephen is more eloquently putting into words my fears behind my initial post.
distills the comparison down to the absolute basics - (i.e. curry base, minimal spicing and cooking technique)
- how do we go about nailing it.
perhaps an example - DD is suggesting benefit in frying onions as a starting point for making base. this has been discussed quite a few times. how do we go about nailing it - red herring or not or optional.
we sought of need to take the jigsaw apart to put it together to make sure all pieces are in the right places.
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curries often have so many other ingredients in them that they can conceal the basic constituents of a BIR curry - namely the curry base and the cooking technique. Without them being right the subsequent curries are unlikely to be right. Hence the REAL test of whether we can faithfully reproduce decent BIR curries is whether or not we can reproduce the simplest ones.
OK, I agree with you it makes sense to tackle relatively simple dishes. I know what you mean about basic 'chicken curry'. As for base sauce, I suggest it's nigh on impossible for most of us to get control samples of base sauce from the best BIRs. I only bought base sauce from a (rubbish) BIR once so it was hardly worthwhile. And then they went and took it out the bqck and put something in it, or changed it - I'm not sure. It was a waste of my money, so my 'control sample' or 'benchmark' was totally invalidated.
My benchmarks are still best dhansak, best pilau rice, best naan bread, etc as served up - and not intermediate elements, because I can't obtain them or identify the intermediate elements accurately enough.
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As for base sauce, I suggest it's nigh on impossible for most of us to get control samples of base sauce from the best BIRs......so my 'control sample' or 'benchmark' was totally invalidated
Sorry George, I'm not making myself clear.
I'm not suggesting to use the curry base as a benchmark. I'm suggesting to use a basic chicken or meat curry as a benchmark since this is little more than curry base + minimal spicing + minimal other ingredients + cooking technique.
If you can crack that, then I believe that you have the basic building blocks in place for any other curry e.g. dhansak = basic curry (as above) + additional spicing + dhal/lentils + other additional ingredients.
I'm suggesting that it's all this additional stuff that can mask the basic stuff needed to make any decent curry.
My benchmarks are.....not intermediate elements, because I can't obtain them or identify the intermediate elements accurately enough
You can obtain a basic chicken or meat curry George, surely? :-\
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CA - OK I'm with you now. I agree. A basic 'chicken curry' is an excellent starting point, not least because it's easy to buy 'control samples' from a good BIR. Yes, crack that and you're well on your way to a Chicken Madras and possibly other curries using base sauce and similar spices.
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CA do you have a recipe for a standard basic medium curry?
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CA - OK I'm with you now
No worries George, I think I had problems explaining myself clearly! :P
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CA do you have a recipe for a standard basic medium curry?
Yes, I can post that if you like?
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Blimey i dont know if im capable of cooking a bog-standard curry, the temptation to add other ingredients is going to be a nightmare to control.
This is going to be difficult.
Even the ingredients for the choice of which base sauce everyone uses is going to have to be stuck to(which i dont think many do) religiously.
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Even the ingredients for the choice of which base sauce everyone uses is going to have to be stuck to(which i dont think many do) religiously.
I don't think that's the case peterandjen. It's more a way to clearly determine if the curry base + minimal spicing + cooking technique is up to the task of making a simple chicken/meat curry. It should help to more clearly identify where the gaps are (in the curry base ingredients, minimal spicing and cooking technique)...I think? :-\
Don't forget this is more of a personal thing whereby the individual is using a basic meat/chicken curry to determine how it compares to their favourite BIRs (it will change from person to person as it will from BIR to BIR).
My main hypothesis is that making a basic meat/chicken curry is a better yardstick than making a more complex curry for determining how we are doing against our favourite BIR. If we can get that right the other curries will follow. I we don't get that right the other curries are unlikely to follow. That's my opinion anyway (for what it's worth) :P
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My main hypothesis is that making a basic meat/chicken curry is a better yardstick than making a more complex curry for determining how we are doing against our favourite BIR. If we can get that right the other curries will follow. I we don't get that right the other curries are unlikely to follow. That's my opinion anyway (for what it's worth) :P
I'm sure this is a worthwhile approach. Any well-thought-out, reasonably systematic approach like this is highly likely to produce a greater move forward than simply floundering around. Now, I must go and buy a basic chicken curry takeaway...
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Ive got to admit, the first Indian takeaway i can remember was a bog-standard chicken curry, complete with a couple of bay leaves floating on the top ;D . I do like them and it would make a change from grinding up half a dozen spice mixes and caramelising onions, to just make a simple curry.
I just have a question or two.
Would it be better for everyone to stick to the same base and go from there?
Or
Do we make it a personal choice thing, where we all do our own thing and go from there?
If its the latter then i agree we will all profit from our own efforts, but for posting results we'll not get anywhere, we all have different ideas/tastes and it will turn into just another ongoing rant by all as to who has the best recipe rofl.
Its a shame there's not a universal taste translator we could download lol
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This post seems to have generated a good deal of interest, debate and, it appears, a willingness in some members (even me maybe) to go for CA's idea of nailing a basic curry. Have you noticed though that in the main recipe section there is no space for such a curry? Could that be rectified CA?
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And another thing - what do members think this curry is called?
I for one would call this a "medium" curry.
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Me again. Have just checked a menu for the "Gulistan" which is a pretty well thought of place in Dundee and they are calling it just "curry" as is the Ashoka menu.
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OK I've just checked Bruce Edwards' Curry House Cookery update and this is his recipe for a "standard" or "medium" curry.
Ingredients
1 Cook's spoon (about 4 tbsp) oil
a little finely sliced red or green pepper (or both)
1 tsp. spice mixture
1/4 tsp. chilli
1/4 tsp dried fenugreek leaves
2 pinches salt
1 portion (7 oz.) curry gravy (see BE recipe in base section)
cooked meat or chicken
coriander leaves
Method
- heat the oil in a frying pan and add the sliced pepper
- when this starts to sizzle, add the spice mixture, chilli, fenugreek leaves and salt
- add them all at once or in quick succession otherwise the first in the pan may start to burn
- stir the contents of the pan for a few seconds, then add the curry gravy and mix well
- next some meat and a little of the sauce it was cooked in and stir well
- simmer for two or three minutes, a lot of oil will rise to the surface
- this can be spooned off before you add the coriander leaves and serve
Spice Mixture (by volume)
8 parts ground coriander
7 parts ground turmeric
5 parts ground cumin
4 parts curry powder
4 parts paprika (optional for colour only)
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Phew!
I went to the trouble of typing the previous post when I should just have done this:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2815.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2815.0)
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Ive got to admit, the first Indian takeaway i can remember was a bog-standard chicken curry...Would it be better for everyone to stick to the same base and go from there?
Or
Do we make it a personal choice thing, where we all do our own thing and go from there?
Its a shame there's not a universal taste translator we could download lol
Me too - my first curries were cut price lunch time dishes and very tasty, too.
I don't see how we can work as a team, somehow comparing results, unless we get together, and hardly anyone expresses any interest in that, so we remain on a hiding to nothing, all in our own little worlds. Pictures aren't even 5% helpful. It's taste and smell which count and you can't get that from photos posted here.
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I think it a much better way to ' Master ' one dish at a time rather than " Jack of all Curries master of none " ;)
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And another thing - what do members think this curry is called?
I for one would call this a "medium" curry.
I think it is generally in the BIR menu section called "medium curries" (rather than "very mild", "mild", "fairly hot", "very hot", etc) and otherwise simply called "meat curry", "chicken curry", "prawn curry", "vegetable curry", "meat and mushroom curry", etc.
I'm sure Admin could add a "curry" section to the main recipes.
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I think it a much better way to ' Master ' one dish at a time rather than " Jack of all Curries master of none " ;)
but you're missing the point eminj....oh, never mind..... ::) (where is the "scream" icon!)
To my mind, making a curry is like making a house. It's built in layers, starting with firm foundations (compare to the curry base). Without firm foundations, the house will be crap.
A basic curry is like a basic house, it has minimal architecture (compare with additional spicing) and is dependent on basic building skills (compare with cooking technique). Without basic building skills the house will be crap.
If you can build a house, you might be able to build a block of flats which has additional architecture and materials (compare to a madras). If you can't build a house (because your foundations and building skills are crap) your block of flats will be crap.
So you need to ensure that your foundations and basic building skills are in place before you go building flats, skyscrapers, etc.
Haha, still with me! :P
Now my head hurts! Where's a wall...I want to bang my head on it!...... ;D
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Do we make it a personal choice thing, where we all do our own thing and go from there?
I think it can only realistically be a personal choice thing.
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To my mind, making a curry is like making a house. It's built in layers, starting with firm foundations (compare to the curry base). Without firm foundations, the house will be crap.
A basic curry is like a basic house, it has minimal architecture (compare with additional spicing) and is dependent on basic building skills (compare with cooking technique). Without basic building skills the house will be crap.
If you can build a house, you might be able to build a block of flats which has additional architecture and materials (compare to a madras). If you can't build a house (because your foundations and building skills are crap) your block of flats will be crap.
So you need to ensure that your foundations and basic building skills are in place before you go building flats, skyscrapers, etc.
Haha, still with me! :P
Now my head hurts! Where's a wall...I want to bang my head on it!...... ;D
CA for poet laureate?
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my own benchmark is very simple. produce a madras which tastes 99 percent the same as 1 of the 10 good bir i buy curries from. It does not have to be as good as the very best as thats unrealistic. simples ! ;D you cant specify a benchmark on a web site unless we all taste each others efforts. it would be like having a dancing competition, where the judges are all blind ;D it would be doomed to failure ! just like a cr0 benchmark.
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CA,
on my TA menu i have listed "plain curry (medium)". it does not give much away, "produced from a wide but basic range of spices for a medium taste". u can have it vegetable or meat.
what recipe do u suggest as the starting point.
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what recipe do u suggest as the starting point.
At least 3 orders of the same basic dish from your 3 favourite takeaways. R&D can be quite expensive. Around here, that will be about 3 x ?4.50 for a start, in order to get something of a feel for what it should taste like and whether there's much difference from BIR to BIR.
I haven't tasted that dish for many years, so I need to do the above before I even think of making my own. Otherwise, what's the point? I won't know what I'm aiming for!
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I think it a much better way to ' Master ' one dish at a time rather than " Jack of all Curries master of none " ;)
but you're missing the point eminj....
oh, never mind..... ::) (where is the "scream" icon!)[/b]
To my mind, making a curry is like making a house. It's built in layers, starting with firm foundations (compare to the curry base). Without firm foundations, the house will be crap.
A basic curry is like a basic house, it has minimal architecture (compare with additional spicing) and is dependent on basic building skills (compare with cooking technique). Without basic building skills the house will be crap.
If you can build a house, you might be able to build a block of flats which has additional architecture and materials (compare to a madras). If you can't build a house (because your foundations and building skills are crap) your block of flats will be crap.
So you need to ensure that your foundations and basic building skills are in place before you go building flats, skyscrapers, etc.
Haha, still with me! :P
Now my head hurts! Where's a wall...I want to bang my head on it!...... ;D
And the point is CA ! Without going all around the Houses ??? Dont try and run before you can walk .
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I'm pretty certain this will not help me at all.
Basic in a term can mean anything as regards cooking. Elevating it? Something else too.
I agree that grounding the subject matter will really help but only if you truly know what is going on? The fact remains as I see it anyway is people trying different things and getting back on them. When they don't it could be that they are where they want to be, if they do it could be to help but everything as some have said is subject to the persons taste, smell, (more smell). ::)
I don't want to cook boring sauces, I'm pretty happy the way things are going to be honest.
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And the point is CA ! Without going all around the Houses ??? Dont try and run before you can walk .
Eminj, I have tried to put my point across, in several different ways, but I appear to have failed.
There are only so many different ways I can (or am willing to) say the same thing. You (and some others), it seems, are just not getting it. I'm not about to try again :-\
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CA,
one thing i'd like to explore is the base. what are u're thoughts as if we all use different base and technique in cooking the base then we won't be on the same hymn sheet in terms of learning.
on my mind would be say u're aka or CRO2 development or even chriswg's curry in a hurry.
on the dish itself are we suggesting something like: oil, g/g paste, tom puree, spice (mix powder, chilli, salt), base.
where do the likes of green chilli, bunjarra, lemon dressing, fresh coriander sit intially.
what are u're thoughts so we can perhaps get out heads together.
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CA, Jerry i think i see what you are attempting. personally i am happy with where i am at. but good luck, it sounds like it would be useful for some of our newer members.
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I had a Balti madras and naan bread last night from the local takeaway, it was nice, different to mine, but only slightly, the main differences i noticed were the use of fresh tomatoes, a lot more salt than i use, and the naan bread had a lot more sugar in it than my recipe, also they pre-cook there chicken in a stock containing garlic/ginger/coriander and fenugreek(from what i can tell) and is very nice.
Other than that, i make a better balti than the local takeaway does.
Mine packs more flavour, it tastes more like the authentic bir taste i remember from years back, and is healthier, ie, less salt.
Ive also been trying different base sauce recipes to the one i usually use out of 100 best balti curries. And im switching back, personally i prefer it, its a closer result for me.
I am going to meet the owner of the local takeaway tonight, he's told me he'll come to my home and show me how to cook several different meals. Im seriously looking forward to it.
Although other than pre-cooking the chicken i honestly dont think there's anything in the way of a Balti he can teach me, its been a long road for me and ive learned just about all there is to know about my tastes :).
BUT, i am genuinely looking forward to finding out how to make other Curries, i dont know what yet but ill find out , and look forward to the learning experiance.
Time and again on this site ive seen people say, and im one of them, that they are dissapointed with the meals they go out and pay for, and that they/we can do better.
I think personally weve set our sights too high.
The best Balti i have eaten in the last 10 years is one i cooked at home 2 weeks ago.
Again its a personal taste. But its there for me.
Now for the rest of the currie menu:)
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Cory don't get me wrong. I think its a good idea, I'm not one of those who considers himself to be right up there with restaurant Chefs like some might feel on line these days. (Kudos if you do?) The reason for that is that its just more complicated than cooking up some onions and stashing chicken in them with water and spices.
This for me is what I have been doing for ages. Each time I do it I'm disappointed because I want some spice in there, not necessarily chillies, just spices and good tastes.
In essence I think the Benchmark will only work if you have one rock solid recipe which everyone will make and go from there.
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Hi
Girls and Boys I think I've got an idea!
How about ordering a Medium Curry Sauce from Malik's then we can all watch, me in the TA and you on the internet and see what they do. That should start some debate!! Also order a Chicken Balti then we will know if they are a Balti House or just a BIR with a jar of Pataks?
Regards
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i agree lads, you know i now make curries just on what i know is considered the right way on here. I dont look now at the recipies because they all say the same thing, ive been a total avid curry maker for about 6 months, read and learned thats all its took to learn the basics ie whats needed for each kinda curry, tonight i made a korma and a madras, the madras i had made allready and froze instead of making a base for it. heck the base recipes mainly are just an add on to the curry you wish to make. The korma i just made by understanding what it entails, didint even use a base to make it.
We are i think at a crucial point in this forum, we all understand the basics, we now need a fool proof madras/vindalloo/korma/ jalfrezi recipe, a curry sold nightly for cash in a standard high street up and down the country. The very thing that actually brought us here in the first place.
now there is no way that there is some secret held by every curry chef in the country, heck pakistan got the blueprints for nuclear bomb making for no more than we want to know how its realy done.
quite frankly its time we had answers. even if we drop a bangledeshi chef a 1000 quid between us to show us wtf its about. its surely time we complete the circle.
unless you all fancy being here in 3 years discussing the same old shit and getting no-where, time we found out and had the real recipe that works!.
i for one want to finish my curry education and move onto starters or tikkas whatever.
seems to me the bir method is harder to fathom than any other cooking style, heck i make italian and french and chinese easily because i get the right recipe.
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seems to me the bir method is harder to fathom than any other cooking style, heck i make italian and french and chinese easily because i get the right recipe.
I agree with you if you're saying all that's needed is the right recipes. One example of a superb recipe on here is Blade's Chicken Tikka. IMHO it produces chicken tikka better than the vast majority of BIRs because that recipe must be spot on. I reckon plenty of us can produce several curries as good as the BIR average for each respective dish. I can't see any point of further visits/enquiries involving such mediocre establishments. My main interest is in the relatively few BIRs which produce dishes way above average. If they wrote down and gave their recipes, we'd be able to make them the same, too.
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commis,
it's a nice offer. i know several want to know how good maliks is so on that basis just buying a curry would please (for me it matters not). i'm pretty sure i've got all the information possible out of the web cam. to make any further sense we need to know what the ingredients are that u can't make out and of course what the rest are that we are making an informed guess at.
jimmy2x & george are right until we have an accurate recipe then we are still without paddle. we've had the opportunity to throw cash at it before but amazingly not enough punters.
i'm kind of with DD in a way - happy with where i'm at. trouble is when u get so close u feel gutted if u can't get that BIR result that we pay money for on the high street. there's no way that i would ever stop going for TA - the convenience is too compelling. however to produce equivalent when u got the time is it for me.
for me what CA is offering is a sanity check to nail the red hearings and fine tune what we know already.
we just need to think out the best way of doing it.
i feel we need to return to the CRO2 base as the starting point. we need to iron out frying of onions and making spiced oil as examples - they are both potty to me but i'd be happy to be proved wrong.
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I don't really know why people are having so much trouble understanding what I am trying to say?
All I am trying to say is that the truest test of how well a person can reproduce BIR curries is how well a person can cook the simplest ones (e.g. plain chicken/meat curry).
If that person can't cook the simplest curries then that person probably can't cook the more complex curries which contain additional ingredients (e.g. madras, jalfrezi, etc).
Guys, simply take whatever curry base and main dish recipe you're most comfortable with, go and make a plain meat or chicken curry and then compare it to a plain meat or chicken curry from your favourite BIR! Then spot the difference and try and identify the reasons for that difference!
What's all the other nonsense about? :-\
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I've just read this post all the way through and although I don't want to be counter-productive, I just don't see the point. We know there is an element missing to our curries but it is the same element regardless of whether we are cooking a medium curry or a Vindaloo, or a CTM for that matter.
I don't see the point of experimenting on a 'curry' when I don't think it is anyone's favourite dish. I am far more motivated to try and acquire the missing taste through Madras cooking than I am with something I won't enjoy eating.
I understand your initial point about not making flavours with chilli powder or coconut but I really believe once one us has the Eureka moment it will be very obvious regardless of curry type.
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I just don't see the point
I don't want to labour this issue Chris (given most people's apparent confusion with it) but, if you think that complicating the underlying tastes of a plain curry with some suggested ingredients (including, but not limited to, the following) makes things simpler, then good luck to you and others who feel the same:
- lemon juice
- chilli powder
- fresh chillies
- worcester sauce
- tarragon
- cream
- yoghurt
- coconut (block, flour, powder or desscicated)
- fenugreek
- chilli sauce
- garlic sauce
- caramised onions
- nuts
- lentils
- pineapple
- mango chutney
- vinegar
- tamarind
- peppers
- onions
- tomatoes
- honey
- syrup
- etc, etc
It may still be the same needle we seek, but you've just made the haystack so much bigger!
If people want to make the haystack bigger, that's fine by me. I'd personally prefer to make it smaller ::)
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I think CA has a valid point here although I agree that we are all (for now) operating in isolation.
I think it is correct that if you have a good base recipe and a good spice mix you should be able to produce a general medium curry that should stand up on it's own. That would make a good starting point before you start turning it into a more specific dish.
The closest I have come to this is using the Taz recipes. I'm going to grind up some fresh cumin and corriander seeds this weekend and make another Taz base and spice mix after a couple of weeks of CA base and recipes.
I still think the oil is probably the missing link. I'll get a TA tonight from my local Saffron and scrutinise it again.
Paul.
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For me I'm starting to think onions play a much larger role to be honest.
Anyway there are several really good ideas on this thread so I'm willing to have a crack if more people consider it worthwhile? I think there should be an image along with each dish and absolute EXACT measurements by all parties without adding or subtracting ~ we all do it I know.
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Guys, simply take whatever curry base and main dish recipe you're most comfortable with, go and make a plain meat or chicken curry and then compare it to a plain meat or chicken curry from your favourite BIR! Then spot the difference and try and identify the reasons for that difference!
What's all the other nonsense about? :-\
CA,
this sounds as if as paul say's we are to operate in isolation.
is this something u've already tried and has produced results.
for me the red hearings etc have to be nailed upfront.
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I don't really know why people are having so much trouble understanding what I am trying to say?
All I am trying to say is that the truest test of how well a person can reproduce BIR curries is how well a person can cook the simplest ones (e.g. plain chicken/meat curry).
If that person can't cook the simplest curries then that person probably can't cook the more complex curries which contain additional ingredients (e.g. madras, jalfrezi, etc).
Guys, simply take whatever curry base and main dish recipe you're most comfortable with, go and make a plain meat or chicken curry and then compare it to a plain meat or chicken curry from your favourite BIR! Then spot the difference and try and identify the reasons for that difference!
What's all the other nonsense about? :-\
Why didn't you say that to start with ! :D
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I've just read this post all the way through and although I don't want to be counter-productive, I just don't see the point. We know there is an element missing to our curries but it is the same element regardless of whether we are cooking a medium curry or a Vindaloo, or a CTM for that matter.
I don't see the point of experimenting on a 'curry' when I don't think it is anyone's favourite dish. I am far more motivated to try and acquire the missing taste through Madras cooking than I am with something I won't enjoy eating.
I understand your initial point about not making flavours with chilli powder or coconut but I really believe once one us has the Eureka moment it will be very obvious regardless of curry type.
Spot on chriswg , it's so much down to personal taste , after watching my favourite T/A make my Madras with just the basics we all use and no fried Onions , Bunjara , Spiced Oil , or anything else exotic ::) We seem to try to overcomlicate things ???
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Why didn't you say that to start with ! :D
I did. You (and others) weren't (aren't) listening.
it's so much down to personal taste
What I am proposing has absolutely nothing to do with "personal taste" (other than your preference for your favourite BIR). It's to do with having a good measure of how well you have mastered the basics of BIR curry cooking. And that's by replicating their most basic curries. No more, no less.
We seem to try to overcomlicate things
QED, "we" do indeed ::)
PS: Please refresh my memory eminj; your madras you watched being made at your favourite takeaway, was it made using a curry base?
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hi all, just to put my 2peneth in and ask you all this question, bearing in mind and putting aside the fact that you are all super bir chefs(not)! ;D
what is the first main curry dish that a BIR chef learns to cook?
a) the chicken/lamb/veg/prawn CURRY! (well actually they learn to cook the curry sauce 1st too expensive to waste the main ingredients, until they get the sauce right.) and learning the techniques of the trade, learning what it smells/ looks like at various stages in the cooking process and very rarely tasting the sauce unless an order states more heat is required, eg chicken tikka masala madras hot.
if any 1 of you can truly say that you can reproduce your favourite dish from your favourite local exactly at home, and you could put them side by side in front of the chef of your local restaurant and you both taste both of the dishes cooked and your dish tastes and smells exactly the same then you are very lucky you have acheived what many are still searching for. but if you say you can food tastes better then you are wasting your money at your now not favourite restaurant!
regards
gary
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Aha. I think your last para in your first post on this 6 page long thread you did indeed say compare. I do Cory, every chance I get and I've been saying that since I started cooking.
I'm pretty darned close, but not close enough cuz am a fusseah lil git. ;)
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if evry1 just tries to follow the "baby" technique learn to roll over 1st, rock backwards and forwards, crawl, stand up by holding on to something, then move along still holding on to something, freestand before your 1st stumbling step, walk a couple of steps, walk slowly before you get the confidence to move faster and eventually run. it is the same for cooking bir curries, once you have a base you are happy with then just cook a basic curry just like your fave restaurant if it is identical then you can now move on to madras or whatever suits your taste because you have the BASICS to succeed.
but if however you prefer your curry cooking to your fave local restaurant then that is YOUR OWN PERSONAL taste and you are obviously a better chef than the chef in your local! if that is the case then this thread is not for you because you have already made it.
regards
gary
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we need a genuine regular common and garden curry chef to join the forum. Then we can pester the hell out of him till he wants to scream.
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we need a genuine regular common and garden curry chef to join the forum. Then we can pester the hell out of him till he wants to scream.
As I said before, I think that's wrong. I don't think an average chef is of much interest at all, at least to me. I'm only interested in hearing what top chefs have to say, and I doubt if they'll tell us, unless they leave things out or degrade the recipe a bit before they release it.
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one chef will not however be representative of all chefs
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one chef will not however be representative of all chefs
As I said before, I think that's wrong. I don't think an average chef is of much interest at all, at least to me. I'm only interested in hearing what top chefs have to say, and I doubt if they'll tell us, unless they leave things out or degrade the recipe a bit before they release it.
[/quote]
aye but we still need one, unless we are all looking for something diffrent and this elusive taste is a purely personal thing and not what we consider a bir common taste at all.
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I'm late in on this thread, and its been an amusing read.
I actually agree with the notion of "nail Chicken Curry and move on from there". I get what CA is driving at.
Like a few others have noted, I personally have never tried a Chicken Curry. I understand what it is (basically a Madras minus tom puree, less chilli, etc).
And where I live, I can't just go out and get one. If I could, I wouldn't be here ;D
Madras, Vindaloo, CTM - I remember those well!
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just for the record guys , i discussed how the bir chef i know learnt his trade, and he said the following. " the first dish he learnt was madras. Once this is mastered all other dishes are easy. " he even demonstrated how rogan josh, bhuna, just require a slightly different cooking technique and a tiny amount of extra ingredients such as a bit more garlic, and onion. and importantly alot more evaporation than madras. so why dont you all concentrate on madras as your starting point. it really is the foundation of all bir curries. i no longer cook anything but madras, as all other dishes are just a distraction. i reckon in about 5 years i will have truly made a 100 percent clone of at least one local bir madras. i am pretty close now.
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*sigh* there is always someone with something contradictory....that's just nonsense in my opinion DD :-\
I think I'm about to give this forum up! :'(
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CA, i thought adding some input from a real bir chef might be relevant? personally i think its an important point, worth sharing.
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Cory don't do that.
I think you'll find peeps are stressed out all over, it's not just this place at all where folks have a meeting point that sometimes become warmer than usual, especially now.
*sigh* there is always someone with something contradictory....that's just nonsense in my opinion DD :-\
I think I'm about to give this forum up! :'(
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PS: Please refresh my memory eminj; your madras you watched being made at your favourite takeaway, was it made using a curry base?
Yes CA , they used a base and a simple one at that.
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Pictures aren't even 5% helpful. It's taste and smell which count and you can't get that from photos posted here.
Off topic, I know...whereas I agree that photos only tell part of the story, I do believe they are invaluable nevertheless.
I often read many a wise word in posts, then see the resultant photos. I am either aghast and singularly unimpressed or pleasantly surprised and very impressed! For me, it puts people's posts into better perspective.
In fact, there are many long standing members on the forum from whom I have barely seen a recipe and certainly not a photo of their cooking. I think they should post both! 8)
Sorry to be so far off topic :-X
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CA,
u must stop sighing for sure. u of all people can cook above it.
for me their is always too much opportunity for debate - we need to do more and talk less. the come dine is a real good example. this post is on the same track. u need to spell out what u suggest we do and make the benefit clear.
this i feel u've done. trouble is can't see how u can get the dish right if the base is out. we need to agree this point and then get on with it.
otherwise these unhelpful distractions will continue to role in.
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trouble is can't see how u can get the dish right if the base is out
That's 100% correct and is the whole point Jerry. That being the case, it would indicate that your curry base (and/or cooking technique) is wrong and requires attention.
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trouble is can't see how u can get the dish right if the base is out
That's 100% correct
Another dangerous assumption. Few things in this area are 100% certain and certainly not the statement above. For example, if the base is too bland and a bit boring (as I think many BIRs bases probably are, for good reason), then a competent chef should be able to fully compensate for it when preparing the final dish.
As for posting hardly any recipes and no photos of dishes I've made, I'm guilty of that. I have virtually no original recipes and I'm not lucky enough to have been inside a BIR kitchen, let alone where the chef has given me permission to post his recipes here. I use recipes like Blade's chicken tikka and have reported back here on how good it is. The search for that dish was over several years' ago. I don't believe it's ethical to take a recipe like Blade's, change it a bit, like by adding some yoghurt, and then post a 'new' recipe as if you're 90% responsible for it. As for photos, I could set up a fabulous looking dish, with nice flowers or something in the background and have you all drooling, even if it tasted like a stagnant pond. It proves nothing.
What will be more interesting is if we eventually make 'critical mass' on the Come Dine idea. This will be far more revealing. There's only two things that count - delivery and taste. I suspect it's because most members are not confident in either or both of those two aspects, that the take-up rate has been very slow. I may be correct in suggesting it could take 18 months to arrange some dinner parties, for more reasons than my building work. Don't let me put anyone off, either. I'm not going to scoff at mediocre food served up by anyone, given they're up for the idea. Good for them! Better that, than not subscribe at all. And it should prove whether anyone can serve up the 'real deal' or whether this forum is just one big talking shop.
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I think we would have enough trouble even agreeing to a best base recipe.
For example I no longer like the idea of carrot, potatoes or fresh corriander in a base sauce. I like to add corriander to taste in the final dish. There is no one correct recipe for a BIR base - there are many variations as we have seen when people have gotten access to real base recipes.
Paul.
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Few things in this area are 100% certain and certainly not the statement above......It (photos) proves nothing.
The we agree to disagree (again) then (or, more precisely, disagree to agree!)
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I am largely guilty of lack of photos , and have only posted 3 recipies. The main reason i dont post my latest efforts is 1) i dont know i can stand all the criticism. 2) if i post the full base and recipe (a years fecking hard work) one tiny mistake in base or recipe can throw it all off kilter. so i seriously doubt members will reproduce it easily, . this will lead to criticism, and do my head in. (3) i am not doing much that isnt already well posted here anyway. possibly in a slightly different way to some members, which may or may not improve the taste (debatable) Most of my improvement in the last year has really been about refining the basics, and tighter technique in making base, and cooking the curry. and better reproducability week on week. in other words technique. this is best learnt at home on your own. my biggest advice would be find a base and technique you are happy with, then stick to it, and tweak it each week. dont copy others, as they might not know as much as you assume. or there idea of perfection might be totally different to yours.
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I think its ok to disagree so long as the parties concerned learn something from it.
The problem as I see it is not enough people trying enough things and providing feedback on said learning. There is also not enough going on in the backroom as regards studying spices. 4000 + years many recipes were concocted and we are trying to emulate in our lifetime but it is not impossible.
Of course if there were enough openness on behalf of restaurant owners they could save a lot of people a lot of grief. Something DD said on this thread rang a chord. To the measure of, If you cook something you like that the restaurants don't do and you prefer it?" Yeah that happens with me.
The important thing however is that we are working with a blank parchment, largely working from what people find out, what we see, what we learn through mistakes and all the while in perfect time the TA puts prices up.
At the end of the day there is nothing more complex than your bank account regardless of what you want to eat? But I think its really sad someone will not provide the book that we all know exists.
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i like the idea of starting with a base, we need a cast iron genuine starting point to then build our curry on top of. Perhaps we even have good authentic bases here just our lack of knowledge of how to turn that base into a curry tends to make many try a new one then another new one when all the time they had the correct starting point to work with.
Maybe we should all just agree on a base, have a full blown discussion and gather all resources and knowledge, then if everyone kept strictly to this base then we can then work towards creating a curry.
Its all the chopping and changing of which im as guilty of as the rest that is realy curtailing progress. Its difficult to try replicating something when your changing the starting position, you might have had at one time the right base, one that would bring that desired final product but then used the wrong main recipe or vis-versa.
I think we need to take up this challenge as CA started this thread for, back to basics, start with getting a correct base and then everyone sticking to it strictly, then we will find the curry recipe from that.
great thread
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I think we need to take up this challenge as CA started this thread for
I suggest the main reason CA started this thread was start a lively discussion on anything that came into his head, to help maintain interest in this forum. It's already at 8 pages and 800+ views so it's worked at a superficial level. Whether this thread will lead to an improvement in anyone's curry making skills is a different question, and I doubt if it will. This thread supports my point about the danger of a 'talking shop' that's all about going round in circles, whilst making very little real progress.
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I think we need to take up this challenge as CA started this thread for, back to basics, start with getting a correct base and then everyone sticking to it strictly, then we will find the curry recipe from that.
I have never suggested that we all use the same base, the same ingredients and/or the same technique Jimmy (and anyone else who thinks I have).
All I've suggested is to try and replicate the SIMPLEST curries from your favourite BIR using (and refining) your own base, your own ingredients and your own technique.
The crux of what I have proposed is to use the SIMPLEST curries (i.e. a plain meat or chicken curry) for the comparison rather than more complex curries (e.g. a madras, vindaloo, jalfrezi, korma, etc), even though these may be your favourites, where the additional complexity masks the basic tastes and smells.
I have never proposed it to be a joint/team effort. I've proposed it as a personal yardstick to give a true measure of how well we can each truly replicate curries from our favourite BIR. From that comparison we should each be better able to identify the differences and the reasons for them (cos the curries are SIMPLE!).
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I suggest the main reason CA started this thread was start a lively discussion on anything that came into his head
The main reason I started this thread was because I am fed up with people saying that a madras (in particular) is a "benchmark" curry. I firmly believe that it's not an appropriate benchmark for the reasons I've given.
...to help maintain interest in this forum
Surely not a bad thing George?
so it's worked at a superficial level. Whether this thread will lead to an improvement in anyone's curry making skills is a different question, and I doubt if it will
Why at a superficial level? If it gives people pause for thought, whether they agree with the proposal or not, it should help?
This thread supports my point about the danger of a 'talking shop' that's all about going round in circles, whilst making very little real progress.
It is a TALK forum George. What is "the danger"?
The only thing it illustrates to me is that, by and large, we can't agree on anything, not even the simplest thing! I wouldn't anyway see that as "a danger".
The only "danger" I see is where individuals (including me) put things forward as fact (when they are not) and other people (beginner's in particular) believe them and adopt them accordingly.
I readily agree about going around in circles....where are the the BIR chefs and the real BIR kitchen visits and reports?? :-\
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I have never proposed it to be a joint/team effort. I've proposed it as a personal yardstick to give a true measure of how well we can each truly replicate curries from our favourite BIR. From that comparison we should each be better able to identify the differences and the reasons for them (cos the curries are SIMPLE!).
I agree with with most of what your're suggesting here and it's not a bad idea to avoid anything which could be seen as a joint or team effort, due to most people hating that concept from what we can tell. My other fear is that most people dislike being told what to do! If they want to cook a (relatively complex) Lamb Tikka Jalfrezi tonight it's probably because they fancy the taste and it's just what they want to do. Why should they give that up in favour of a (relatively simple and boring) plain chicken curry, mainly in the interest of R&D, just so they can report back here?
Many threads debate the same points but in different ways. Overall, many people are still dissatisfied, to some extent, and would like to make better curries, I guess. So you can discuss that issue as benchmarks, best base, myths or 101 other angles, and just hope that some good comes out of it. I haven't got any better ideas. My dinner parties idea is slow getting off the ground. I hoped that might be breakthrough in terms of real benchmarking (against other members efforts). I urge members who have not yet expressed an interest to reconsider.
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George,
Comprehension (and my seeming inability to put a simple concept across) appears to be letting us down :-\
Nowhere have I said:
- it's a team effort!
- that anyone must do it!
- that they shouldn't continue to cook the curries that they prefer and want to eat!
- that it's "in the name of R&D!
- that they should "report back here"
Very few other threads have raised the same point (though, I agree, it has been discussed in one or two previous threads).
I'm not bothering to contribute any more to this thread; too many people appear to have totally missed the plot! :-\
I will leave the lunatics to the asylum! :-X
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CA,
no one has totally missed the plot - no one can see how working on your own will produce value.
unless we can collectively answer each others questions in doing this idea how can it be successful. for this we need to be on the same hymn sheet and start with the basics.
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my seeming inability to put a simple concept across appears to be letting us down
I fear you may be right but I don't believe you for a moment when you say you'll keep out of this thread from now on.
If you read my previous post carefully you'll see, I think, that I was agreeing with you about team efforts, so why comment as if you disagree with so much that I, and others, write?
If you're not asking us to play around with plain and relatively boring chicken curries in the interest of R&D and to report back here, then what are we doing it for?
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i'm kinda starting to agree with George on this.
anyhow trying to remain positive.
the basic base would be the CRO2 development base. this would be used to iron out some potential humdingers. i say humdingers for the lack of a better word. they could be red hearings or crucial (jigsaw pieces) or optional.
these are mine - relating to base.
1) fry onions at start - no
2) use whole spice - yes
3) use individual mix powder spices (ie no curry powder or garam) - yes
4) reclaim oil - yes
5) cook with water after blending - yes
6) add spices towards end - no
7) fancy or secret ingredients - no
8 ) low spicing - yes
9) thinness but high onion content - yes
there's probably a few more that others could add.
i have my own conclusion on them all and i don't need to revisit them. i do wish to achieve the best that BIR's produce and feel the principle CA's set's down may just help us unlock a bit more.
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The only thing it illustrates to me is that, by and large, we can't agree on anything, not even the simplest thing!
You got that right. For example, you have clearly ruled out the korma as a 'benchmark' curry and I would suggest you are absolutely wrong on that.
I would say that the korma is one of the best, if not the best, tests of the adequacy of the base sauce. Why? Well, we know that the korma is base sauce + coconut + cream + sugar, and sometimes almond powder. In fact it is probably the only curry we really know FOR SURE how the BIR cooks. There's no technique involved to muddy the waters, just lob it all in a pan and boil it down to the right consistency! Therefore as we all know what coconut tastes like, and we all know what cream tastes like, it leaves only getting the base right to match the takeaway. That is, the base is the defining factor in this curry, much more so than any other BIR curry.
Of course this assumes that we are all familiar with the BIR korma, and I'd have to say I am not as I find it a nauseating concoction, but it is probably the best selling curry from BIRs, despite what they claim about CTM, and therefore is more likely to be made by people on this forum than, say, a madras which might be outside a lot of people's comfort level.
It therefore seems to me to be the ideal candidate for the benchmark curry, something which I posted about some two years ago I think under the title of 'is this a true test of a BIR base' or something like that.
To summarise why I suggest this is THE candidate for a benchmark curry:
1. We know for sure how BIRs make this curry, and, from what I have seen, the way this one is made is very consistent from BIR to BIR, both in technique (lob it all in and stir), and in ingredients. I don't think that can be said of any other BIR curry.
2. The defining factor is the base sauce as all the other ingredients are known. Therefore match your korma to your BIRs and you know you have the base sauce sussed. We can then go from there.
3. There is no hidden or hard to master BIR technique involved in its making.
4. It is one of, if not the, most popular curries from a BIR and should therefore be likely to be made and tried by more people including the chilliphobes.
5. There are no extra spices added at the curry cooking stage so we don't have to try to guess what they are!
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I'd have to concur with this though like you I don't like it much. :-\
I like savories.
Wife loves it however and since I've never made it BIR style it would be a challenge.
5. There are no extra spices added at the curry cooking stage so we don't have to try to guess what they are!
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You got that right. For example, you have clearly ruled out the korma as a 'benchmark' curry and I would suggest you are absolutely wrong on that
At least you seem to comprehend what it is I've been trying to suggest SS, apart from the fact that my suggestion involved assessing more than just the curry base (i.e. basic cooking technique too).
Otherwise I agree (I think I've said as much in the previous threads you mention), a korma, as you say, has reasonable merit as a "benchmark" curry for assessing the suitability of a curry base.
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not a korma fan one bit. i did make ronnoc's once and it took my prejudices by surprise.
sounds like Korma it is. i believe George's version is the closest - are there any other contenders.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=312.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=312.0)
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sounds like Korma it is
What!? :-\
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In fact it is probably the only curry we really know FOR SURE how the BIR cooks.
If it's so clear, which recipe do you mean?!!
It's good of Jerry to hold up the korma recipe I posted as a contender but, several years after my posting, we became aware, via Maliks webcam and other videos, that many/all places normally start off by 'dry frying' sugar and coconut powder. My recipe doesn't do that, so I'm fairly sure it's not as 'authentic' as it could be. As keen as I am on kormas, I haven't yet revisited that dish, and I must.
I'd sooner spend time perfecting a korma than testing plain chicken curry, but I still think the latter would actually be a better benchmark, as I think CA is suggesting, for a wider variety of more complex dishes.
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i think we need a gold standard base, it would make everything else so much easier, whenever korma or madras or chicken curry.
i would enjoy a debate and then a conclusion on this especially from all the more knowledgeable members on here than i ever hope to be.
It would be then so much better for other members here to have a rel authentic starting point.
sorry if this was not your initial thread topic ca and i deviated into this area, but i just feel a benchmrk base is what i personally need to carry me forward.
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In fact it is probably the only curry we really know FOR SURE how the BIR cooks.
If it's so clear, which recipe do you mean?!!
The basic recipe George used by both the East takeaway and Maliks. That is, sugar and coconut in huge quantities into the pan (and ground almond in some cases), a couple of ladles of base sauce and a bit later the addition of lots of UHT cream, and boiled down for a few minutes. It really doesn't get any simpler, there's NO technique involved and importantly relies entirely on the base for any 'curryness'.
we became aware, via Maliks webcam and other videos, that many/all places normally start off by 'dry frying' sugar and coconut powder
No George there really is no dry frying of the sugar/coconut to speak of. I can say this with some certainty as I've watched them. They only really just add the two ingredients, SOMETIMES give it a brief stir and SOMETIMES leave it for a while if they're doing other curries at the same time. There really is no intention to caramelise the mix. Indeed, often when they are rushed, I've seen them add the base sauce as the first ingredient, swiftly followed by the coconut and sugar. The dry frying is something of a myth!
plain chicken curry, but I still think the latter would actually be a better benchmark, as I think CA is suggesting, for a wider variety of more complex dishes.
Yes and no. Clearly there are a greater variety of savoury curries than creamy ones, so this would suggest a basic chicken curry as a benchmark would be ideal.
On the other hand even the 'simple' chicken curry involves potentially unknown ( or at least difficult to master) technique and certainly involves at least some added ingredient (spice etc.) at the frying stage which complicates matters.
I would personally prefer a savoury curry as a benchmark as I hate korma but there are too many pitfalls, whereas the korma is 'known', simple, and likely to be eaten and therefore tried by more people.
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Secret Santa - Thank you very much for your very helpful post. It reflects my observations and adds more. I hope I haven't started a 'dry frying' myth. I just assumed there was some intended caramelising if they put all the sugar and coconut in a (dry?) pan over high heat and leave it for many seconds, as often happens. But, if you're right and it tastes the same if the base is added first, then I guess it's more along the same lines as my old recipe, derived heavily from what Ghanna told us.
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One thing I also forgot George, it's not even dry frying as they always use a lot of ghee for this dish, and generally for all the creamy dishes. So it's about four or more TBSP of ghee followed by the sugar/coconut mix.
Also, how much sugar have/would you use to make your korma comparable to the BIR variety you are accustomed to?
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Also, how much sugar have/would you use to make your korma comparable to the BIR variety you are accustomed to?
Ah, that's what I'll have to determine by trial and error. As you said, it looks like they add a very unhealthy quantity of sugar and coconut. I'll start with that and work from there. I don't care how unhealthy it is for the occasional dinner party but I've never included BIR dishes (whether bought-in or DIY) in my diet for everyday living. The current kormas I'm accustomed to have lost a lot of their appeal since the 1980s. I don't know if it's me, or a change in the standard dished-out by most BIRs.
As for benchmarks, I don't currently have one for a chicken korma. I wouldn't know where to go, these days, to get a 'reference' version from a BIR.
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no expert on korma for sure. but on these type of dishes ie butter chicken and tikka masala the amount of sugar has clearly increased to the point that most BIR's are really quite inedible. my lad has gone off these dishes from BIR's for this reason. of course it could be just evolution through the BIR menu but even my wife won't eat these sugar dishes from most BIR's (thankfully there are a few good ones left - amazingly the BIR i really rate on most dishes has also fallen into this same trap).
a reduced sugar version would be good - better than BIR i'd say.
ps Secret Santa u've been watching too much video.
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the debate on what base and curry should be used as a benchmark can be answered simply, if we all ask our local bir chef the same question. It would be very interesting to hear their response. The chef at my local has clearly stated madras is the most important dish (the benchmark curry mastered first by novices in his kitchen) , what does the chef at your local bir say? I have a feeling there will be a range of responses, depending on the type of base that restaurant makes. so also try to find out if they use very plain , thin, low spiced bases (e.g. the kd base) or if they use heavy spiced thick bases, such as ashoka base. it may be that we identify two schools of thought on this age old topic. I am sure most chefs would be happy to discuss this with us. So get asking next time you visit, and we can have some real closure on this issue. as it seems to crop up every 6 months on this forum.
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if we all ask our local bir chef the same question. what's the most important dish (the benchmark curry mastered first by novices in his kitchen
i'll ask - this i think is something they would love to talk about.
ps i end up with the same thinness from every base including ashoka by adding more water if it's too thick