Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: JerryM on October 24, 2009, 08:27 AM
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this is a bit along the lines of CA's recent post (on using lots of chilli powder).
up-till now i've only used max 2 tsp of spice in a single portion (200ml finished).
this week i tried adding a lot more paprika than i normally do (3 tsp & 2 tsp). i found that i could not get rid of the powdery taste.
this powdery taste seems to only occur with some spices ie paprika & chilli (maybe others i don't know). it does not happen with say curry powder.
i tried adding it to watered tomato puree without success although i did not leave it for any length of time.
i guess it's down to how fine the powder has been ground.
any thoughts appreciated.
for background i was trying to replicate madras curry sauce. i was working around CK's recipe (oil, g/g, puree, salt, chilli, paprika, base, coriander).
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this is a bit along the lines of CA's recent post (on using lots of chilli powder).
up-till now i've only used max 2 tsp of spice in a single portion (200ml finished).
this week i tried adding a lot more paprika than i normally do (3 tsp & 2 tsp). i found that i could not get rid of the powdery taste.
this powdery taste seems to only occur with some spices ie paprika & chilli (maybe others i don't know). it does not happen with say curry powder.
i tried adding it to watered tomato puree without success although i did not leave it for any length of time.
i guess it's down to how fine the powder has been ground.
any thoughts appreciated.
for background i was trying to replicate madras curry sauce. i was working around CK's recipe (oil, g/g, puree, salt, chilli, paprika, base, coriander).
Jerry, Try adding it to tomato puree with hot water, it might dissolve the powder better.
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976bar,
i'll give it try - sounds as if it's got a good chance of working.
it was DD's post that got me thinking about this ie BIR's adding spice (pataks paste actually but the principle being spice) to tom puree and presumably not adding it separately at frying stage http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3793.msg34639#msg34639 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3793.msg34639#msg34639)
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JerryM, I tend to use fresh chili finely chopped and cooked in with the Garlic/Ginger paste. For friends who are maniacs I have them sliced and put on top as a garnish to the final dish. Cheers PP
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Glad you posted this Jerry. I had the same problem for ages following some recipes I found. After you've added a TBS of spice then added base which is like thin soup after all I was having this problem too.
These days I add less but as I've said elsewhere its almost like defeating the purpose isn't it? I'm pretty sure they use water in curries here as well as base. In fact you'd be hard pressed to notice there is any powder in some dishes apart from the odd piece that was not ground properly, or perhaps on purpose?
I'm losing it a bit with all this to be honest. (My cooking). The spice oil does make a difference, so too the tom paste mix, even hot sauce makes a huge difference, as does tomato ketchup if used correctly. But it just doesn't come anywhere near what they do. I guess I'm going through a bad time with cooking but I find it soooooo annoying.
I've tried just about every conceivable combo and sometimes created a great dish. But......... if it were placed side by side? No contest, they win hands down. :'(
I looked at the Shaan spice mix packets again yesterday and opened a few up, looked at the instructions and gave them all a darned good smell. What strikes me is how little there is and how pungent they are yet the contents state nothing unusual.
I think everything is there but the main ingredient in my case. Spice. What do they do with it? Ground Cumin seeds mixed with ground coriander seeds for example don't smell that appealing. Certainly looking at these packets which serve up a good meal in most cases don't smell like that at all. So what the heck is it?
One recipe I followed stated about 3 TBS of spice. Once the base went in I imagine this ended up just like what you are talking about perhaps? Almost like a sand curry? Horrible and a million miles from the take out. ::)
Oh well...
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Hi Guys,
I think the trick is a good quantity of oil in the pan. Fry off your garlic/ginger/tomato pastes (if using all three, or any combo really!) Once the paste is golden (only visible if not using tomato) I would suggest about 1 minute on full heat, take the pan off the heat and add the spice blend, including extra chilli or paprika if you using it. Keep stirring vigorously with the back off the chef's spoon. The oil should like fizz up. Once it has stopped fizzing, put back over the heat and procede with the rest of the dish.
This method has never failed me yet
Ray
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Hey Ray.
Perhaps you are right, I really don't know any more myself. I know oil plays a large part but there are so many videos on line showing people using less which doesn't pan at all with me.
I usually go with plain instinct, never measure and the results are pretty darned good. But not against the real thing it's so frustrating. My final thing is spice blends. Spice doesn't cost that much where I am so instead of serving myself half meals I want something concrete at last.
Something in my head tells me you are right though. After all it cannot be any coincidence that using the same recipe again and again varies so much. After all there are not that many variables. Spice in a 360 degree deep fat fryer doesn't burn for example in Bahjis.
I'll post another on this tomorrow. There are some things that I know do work and the results are 100%.
Good post Ray, Thank you.
Hi Guys,
I think the trick is a good quantity of oil in the pan. Fry off your garlic/ginger/tomato pastes (if using all three, or any combo really!) Once the paste is golden (only visible if not using tomato) I would suggest about 1 minute on full heat, take the pan off the heat and add the spice blend, including extra chilli or paprika if you using it. Keep stirring vigorously with the back off the chef's spoon. The oil should like fizz up. Once it has stopped fizzing, put back over the heat and procede with the rest of the dish.
This method has never failed me yet
Ray
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Razor/Mikka,
appreciate your thoughts.
this came about from DD's post indicating that BIR add spice to their "tom puree/water paste". when i looked at the pataks ingredients there was nothing different to what is already in the curry ie garlic, ginger etc. the pataks basically was adding a spice - in their case bassar which i already have in powder form and use regular.
what i was unsure of was whether BIR's might add other ingredients to make a specific "tomato paste" for use in some dishes - like madras curry sauce. i tried paprika & chilli using more per portion than i've done before (4 tsp in 200ml finished portion) and got this "sand" curry for the 1st time.
i think Ray's idea of adding more oil might work as the large amount of powder does stand out as "excessive" and is difficult to mix in. i used water to overcome it. i also tried a long fry which did not work but thinking about it now was probably down to not enough oil.
the idea of using a v.large amount of powder is ONLY aimed at madras curry sauce. i am totally sold on minimal spice for the rest of the dishes - this was the 1st time i'd really had chance to assess a low spiced base and low spice dishes - it worked for me. i'm now at 1 tsp max spice per portion as opposed to 2 tsp in the past. i've even substantially cut down on using curry powder.
ps Mikka as for loosing it - i've had same experience many times. it's inevitable for me given u have to experiment to improve. u just need to know when to stop ie when something works well enough. not easy though. at least by keeping trying things u can stop the niggle u get when u don't know for sure.
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I think razor may be right when he says it's possibly down to the amount of oil used to cook the spices. Many years ago I dabbled with oil-free curries and I seem to remember that they had a slightly gritty texture, whereas the same curry made previously with oil did not.
Personally I use quite a lot of oil, perhaps 4 TBSP (at least) per serving, and I just don't get this gritty/sandy effect.
For example I made a vindaloo the other day, I used about 4 tsp hot chilli powder and 2 tsp ground black pepper, far more than Jerry would use, as well as the other spices, and the sauce was smooth with no hint of gritiness.
The only real effect I notice when using large amounts of spices is that they thicken the sauce more.
Also, I remember some people having the problem of water separating from the curry and making the rice soggy when served up. Again I'm sure this is due to the use of too little oil. There has to be a sufficient amount of oil to form an emulsion with the water in the curry to 'hold it in'.
In my opinion oil should be used generously and, if necessary, spooned off at the end of cooking, or after letting the curry rest for a few minutes.
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Thanks for the replies folks, all very helpful.
Ok this is how I see it and remember I'm going through a tough spell as regards this so all can be ignored. ;D
I can make a sauce taste like Cumin. I can make a sauce taste like cumin with cloves, like Garlic, Ginger, Methi and so on etc.
What I cannot do is match the restaurant at all. I come pretty darned close to one place with my Vindy but they are preparing it in a more home-style way. The others? Not on your nelly, I'm a million miles away from achieving this and they are all similar.
In my case there is a spice/combination of spice seriously missing in all dishes. Its not that they haven't cooked through its that its just not there.
[Santa on your Pepper additions) You know I love pepper and have wondered about this for some time. Thanks for that.
In essence this is about my spice mix. It's nowhere near what I'm being served and I've tried about 20 different variations too. My thinking is that they are adding a spice not usually added to meat dishes or they do something to the spice prior to grinding?
On the Tomato paste thing.... I've asked several people if they ever tasted the (RED) tomato paste which we are told is JUST tomato paste. I have different info from an owner here who confirmed it is not just tomato paste.
Ajwain seems to knock at me head a lot these days for example. Horrible in Butter chicken, delicious with Lamb though its supposed to be for veggie dishes right?
I guess I'm clutching at straws at the moment but I do think a damned good natter with people about this might get my cooking juices going again, I just love cooking but I like it simple and to know what I'm doing rather than testing.
Thanks again folks. Good thread. :)
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Secret Santa,
i may have brought some of this on myself. just recently i started using plain tom puree (ie not watered) and adding base a little at a time. from not being able to get the smokey taste i could not loose it. i found i could reduce the oil (from 6 tbs madras/4 tbsp others to 3 tbsp for all). i can see now that the oil was boarderline and adding the extra powder just ott'd it. i don't have an issue using lots of oil as it goes up in smoke very easily on the stove. i'll do as u suggest - many thanks.
Mikka,
i think i'm on similar lines. "JUST" tomato paste is what's intriguing me. i make 976bar's kashmiri regular. my wife and myself have no direct BIR comparison on this dish - we both feel it's BIR. the same goes for bitchinsahsa's butter chicken. i've never tried a BIR version but i make it for a friend who has BIR comparison and reckons it's as good as. other dishes i make are good enough.
on some dishes there is still a piece of the jigsaw missing. madras is one good example for sure. i regularly do a side by side with the same from my local TA. despite trying all sorts of ideas there is still something missing in terms of ingredient. it's not what i'd call an Indian spice ie cumin, coriander etc. it's not tomato ie ie passata, tin toms, lemon juice, fresh green chilli etc.
i now think it must be something to do with the tomato paste. it's not pataks either. the paprika surprisingly seemed a step in the right direction. i need to get rid of the sand to get a better view.
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Ok here's a thing. Ever since I came here I wondered what the heck is that fruity smell? It's just about in everything here. I haven't asked about it because I feel its what I am looking for in particular. It's not a lemon sherbet or anything, it's just there.
Today I pulled out a small thing of onion Tiny condiment thing from the fridge. Small pieces of onion in a red sauce, not much but its there. The thing is that its very sweet. I saw a recipe for this just now but its not that. It tastes like berries although It could be a simple sauce of course.
For me anyway.
1. There is a spice missing. something I have too because I know it but cannot nail it.
2. There is something fruity in my meals. (Sometimes if not then toned down).
3. The oil is the corker. I think that's how it gets around of course (taste).
Guess we all know #3. But I'm sure its reused oil and I'm certain we can make it at home too without reusing it from other dishes.
As a test I added 1 TBS Hot sauce (Forget the brand) into some plain tomato sauce, (tinned). The effect was immediate.
I'm not suggesting everyone go hunt the fridge for Red grape juice or pour Hot sauce over their meals but I am certain that something about both processes do actually occur in some form in many kitchens but perhaps not all.
I've often said I could drink some curry sauces. I'm still frustrated as heck but I'm glad someone is talking about this age old topic again because for my money and although some sites charge access fees for what they say are real recipes from Chefs. None of them come even close to the real thing, none of them.
I know, I'm fussy and try mine alongside those from a restaurant. I think it would be fair to say that some meals. The ones I really like are about 75/80% there, but no more.
Mikka,
i think i'm on similar lines. "JUST" tomato paste is what's intriguing me. i make 976bar's kashmiri regular. my wife and myself have no direct BIR comparison on this dish - we both feel it's BIR. the same goes for bitchinsahsa's butter chicken. i've never tried a BIR version but i make it for a friend who has BIR comparison and reckons it's as good as. other dishes i make are good enough.
on some dishes there is still a piece of the jigsaw missing. madras is one good example for sure. i regularly do a side by side with the same from my local TA. despite trying all sorts of ideas there is still something missing in terms of ingredient. it's not what i'd call an Indian spice ie cumin, coriander etc. it's not tomato ie ie passata, tin toms, lemon juice, fresh green chilli etc.
i now think it must be something to do with the tomato paste. it's not pataks either. the paprika surprisingly seemed a step in the right direction. i need to get rid of the sand to get a better view.
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Ok here's a thing. Ever since I came here I wondered what the heck is that fruity smell? It's just about in everything here.
Can I ask where "here" is please Mikka? Would I be correct in thinking that you are (originally) from North America/Canada?
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Mikka,
berries & fruity - i've not come at it by smell. the ashoka pathia mix has mango in it - it's very strong - just what u need for pathia but not the subtle taste i'm in need of (for some dishes typ madras).
these are my current thoughts - i've not tried it out yet though. got stuck in the sand.
i think there must be an "extra" bottle or jug of this "Just" tom paste that is used for some dishes. at the mo i'm thinking tom puree, water, paprika, mango chutney, oil.
the trouble is at my local TA i've only seen what really looks like double concentrate tom puree straight out of a tin. i firmly believe this is the case and is used for most dishes. this "Just" tom past is not tandoori marinade either.
probably just a bonkers thought but i just can't think of anything else to close the gap on the real BIR madras curry sauce. there's just nothing in the dish yet the taste is 2nd to none.
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Nah I'm from Britain CA.
Can I ask where "here" is please Mikka? Would I be correct in thinking that you are (originally) from North America/Canada?
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Perhaps I'm just confused Jerry? That's exactly what I get from most food in my region though. Some places are different, but most have this wonderful overlying smell and I can only keep thinking fruity for some reason?
One thing of note is that when I ask for Mutton from the butcher is that they are confused and say Lamb. When I ask for goat they say you must mean Lamb. There is a great Halal butcher some miles away. I never see the lighter meat (bloodless) that comes in Rogan Josh. I swear that is part of it. This has a peculiar taste but obviously really good! ;D
The meat I get which is cheap of course is a little darker.
Jerry I'll post a pic up later of my Tomato paste. I don't truly think you would know without smelling it that it is really caramelized onions and spices.
Keep well Dude
Mikka,
berries & fruity - i've not come at it by smell. the ashoka pathia mix has mango in it - it's very strong - just what u need for pathia but not the subtle taste i'm in need of (for some dishes typ madras).
these are my current thoughts - i've not tried it out yet though. got stuck in the sand.
i think there must be an "extra" bottle or jug of this "Just" tom paste that is used for some dishes. at the mo i'm thinking tom puree, water, paprika, mango chutney, oil.
the trouble is at my local TA i've only seen what really looks like double concentrate tom puree straight out of a tin. i firmly believe this is the case and is used for most dishes. this "Just" tom past is not tandoori marinade either.
probably just a bonkers thought but i just can't think of anything else to close the gap on the real BIR madras curry sauce. there's just nothing in the dish yet the taste is 2nd to none.
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Mikka,
could the mango fit what u're searching for in terms of smell. that's what i think is in the "Just" tomato paste/sauce that i'm searching for.
maybe u're talking of what i call onion paste when u refer to tomato paste. i after something completely different as i already use onion paste (Left to right is the g/g paste, chilli paste, onion paste - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.msg30354#msg30354 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.msg30354#msg30354)
i regular do a side by side with the madras curry sauce from my local TA. for me it's crucial as i see it as the gateway to many other related dishes.
the trouble is the taste comes across as very simple yet fantastic. i'd add that the sauce from the TA is pretty much the same across the country when the chef makes what i call the "red" colour version (there is a brown version - SnS's madras is very close to the brown version).
i can only describe the taste as garlic, tomato, coriander, chilli. it has minimal spice taste - i assume only that from the base ie no additional spice is added. CK's madras is the closest to it but yet still not there. i've tried many variations but they take the taste away from BIR as opposed to towards.
i can now only think that a "tomato" sauce must be used to convert the base into the finished dish.
i intend to experiment along these lines when i next have base - hopefully now being able to sort the sand taste that i got last time.
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To be completely honest Jerry I'm scouring Youtube at the moment. There are some gems up there these days. I did a random search on just cooking meat really and found a load of Indian chefs quite by chance.
I'll post up links when I've scrutinized them a little. Also the missing taste (for me) might be my meat? I was told the other taste may in fact be goat meat. Go figure....
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Mikka and JerryM , I think your both having a mid life Curry Crisis :o
After my time in the kitchen of my favourite T/A which is 12 miles away :'( I watched my Madras being made right in front of my eyes 8) I believe your over complicating your Curry cooking by adding things like Onion Pastes and Spicy blends of this and that and God knows what your gonna come up with next !
This T/A uses a basic Base Sauce and minimally Spice their Madras plus ' thinned ' Tomato Puree and the Curry is deeelicious :P
As already said I think the amount of oil is important to give a smooth sauce but also I believe much of the Spice flavour is suspended in the oil my best Curries have been swimming in oil :o but you could allways spoon off really excess oil into a container to be reused in your next Curry or Base Sauce even. I believe we need to think BIR to find ' the taste ' we are searching for and I reckon their priorities would be .
1. Quick to produce
2. Cheap to produce
3. Max flavour per ?
JerryM , you are well practiced at Curry making and no doubt you know how to make a cracking Madras with just the usual ingredients found in most of the Madras recipes on here ! My Madras Curries are easily as good and more often better than any of my local T/A's and close enough to my favourite T/A's taste to believe I just need to ' fine tune '
my technique rather than look for a ' Magic Spice ' that I might be missing ;)
p.s. saying that, I bought some Tandori Masala Spice on the weekend for the first time and that tastes and smells good enough to eat out of the jar !! mmm I wonder ?? ;D
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emin-j,
i know it must sound a tad mad but just this one little bit of my cooking is niggling me.
i don't see how "Just" tom puree can get to the sauce taste - i've tried many ideas as i've said.
i feel as if i must be "barking" on this but i just don't see how i can get the taste other than something like a "Just" tom paste made along these lines : tom puree, water, paprika, mango chutney, oil.
i will try it and report. i still hope members might just get a bit of inspiration on what they believe it could be as i can't be the only one to feel there is a slight gap on madras related dishes. the only other thought is a bought proprietary tomato/chilli sauce - the one's u see in the asian stores. i have tried this in the past (before joining) and it did work to a certain extent. given what i now know from the site it may just do it but it's currently ranked 2nd begind the "Just" sauce idea.
ps i do use the tandoori masala in some dishes - only a tad amount typ 1/4 tsp.
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Hi Ermin/Jerry.
I've been using Tandoori Masala as an additive in (some) dishes for about 2.5 years now. To my thinking and although we watch like lemmings we are not told the whole story. The oil is crucial, we all know that, but I don't think its the whole story.
Last night I made Aloo sag/Palak aloo in the homestyle fashoin which is also how they serve it here in restaurants. Spice was minimal, oil was minimal. I still had 'too much spinach taste' right until the end when I added a pinch of Cinnamon but the dish met standards after I bit into a whole green cardamom.
Today I do the second portion but this time with fresh ground spices and see if I can marry the taste with them? Apart from the odd (roasted) whole cardamom I don't get any crunchies. ;D Not the same with a local vindaloo however. There is a last minute sprinke of spice right before serving.
I think there are many paths to what we each want to taste in our food. It's just down to us talking and learning to find out our best course in each case. Frankly I'm learning a whole bundle from standard home cooking Indian videos. I suggest folks search them out sometime.
Hopefully when I'm more confident I'll post some videos of my own.
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i don't see how "Just" tom puree can get to the sauce taste - i've tried many ideas as i've said.
I have no basis in reality for suggesting this but, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some BIRs water their tomato puree down with standard ketchup. It would certainly make it a looser mix and would add to the flavour.
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this powdery taste seems to only occur with some spices ie paprika & chilli (maybe others i don't know). it does not happen with say curry powder.
I totally agree on this point, especially with chili powder. I find it differs greatly from brand to brand. Have you tried putting it in your spice grinder? Worth a shot.
For this reason I always try to get the hottest chili powder I can find. Incidentally, TRS extra hot is not all that hot. If my memory serves, I think Rajah is hotter.
I've also noticed this powdery thing gets worse the older you chili is. Maybe it's just loosing potency so I'm using more...
Cheers
BB
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Secret Santa,
ketchup is my fallback option. i can't remember the make but it's in pretty much every asian store i've been in. i did use it with KD1 base until joining the site and it worked well (recipe 200ml finished: 1/2 tsp chilli sauce, 3/4 tsp tom puree, 1/2 tsp salt, dash worcester sauce, fresh coriander in with base, 2 to 3 pinch of garam - yes i know - before u'd educated me).
the attempts using paprika etc did seem to be worth trying again assuming i can get rid of the sand effect using more oil as u suggested. i will also try along the lines of 976bar's idea of dissolving the powders.
if this fails then it can only be something like ketchup. i know the taste of the base and the sauce does not really give any clues on what's been added at cooking/frying other than chilli and coriander. it's very red but tin toms, extra puree, passata take the taste away. i can only describe it as a low spice madras. it's got to be something very simple and cheep.
it's important to me as i think it will do nicely as the starting point for working on a sylheti recipe.
Bobby,
it's a real good idea of re grinding it. i must admit not thought of it. as it's the paprika that i think is the main problem "sand" then it should grind up ok without the dangers with chilli. for info my chilli powder is NATCO and it seems good on the sand front. ps glad to cu back posting.
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I've noticed the sand effect myself. I made myself a curry using 2 teaspoons (heaped) of red Kashmiri chilli powder. Rather than making the curry twice as hot as one teaspoon, it made it sandy and rough tasting. I often use a desertspoon of spice mix for one person and haven't noticed the same effect with the spice mix, as with the chilli.
I think an important lesson is if you want it hotter, get a hotter chilli powder rather than piling in loads of a milder chilli powder.
It may not be true BIR but I like the effect and taste of finely sliced and fried hot fresh chillis - no trace of the sand effect with those.
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I think an important lesson is if you want it hotter, get a hotter chilli powder rather than piling in loads of a milder chilli powder.
Yes, absolutely right, that's why I always use the hottest chilli powder I can find. As I said before though, I just don't get this 'sandy' gritty texture even when using large amounts of chilli powder, and I put this down to using plenty of oil.
And I just had another thought. I never make a paste of my spices, they go straight into the oil as they are. I think making a paste of them may be a possible reason for 'sandy' curries.
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Hi guys,
Like I have mentioned before, take the pan off the heat before adding your spice blend and chilli powder. My rule of thumb is 1 tsp of chilli powder for Madras, 2 for vindaloo and three for a Phall. Even when I've done a Phall using 2 tsp of my spice blend and 3 tsp of Chilli powder, thats 5 tsp's of powder in all, I never get this gritty/sandiness with my final dish.
If you take the pan off the heat, you should remove the risk of burning your spices. Usually, chilli powder and paprika has a slighlty more corse texture than other ground spices. If you burn these whilst frying, the grains, for the want of a better term, they will go hard and therefor making it impossible to lose the grainyness.
I think a lot of the problem could be overspicing. Two desertspoons of spice blend seems excessive to me. I use 2 tsp's at the very most, and whatever extra chilli/paprika that I need!
Hope this helps,
Ray
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I use the hottest too. (Chilli Powder). Actually my last meal wasn't bad at all although I mucked up when adding the powders. In Shaans spice mix powders you are told to add the whole packet in most cases with water and pur?ed tomatoes & sometimes blended onions as opposed to base sauce. Not so far from a base sauce at all really is it?
I'm almost certain now this is how they do it here because they add either flour or another agent to thicken the sauce. When cold you can spoon it and it will stick to the spoon.
On that note I read somewhere that over here in some unscrupulous restaurants they add Baking powder as a thickening agent. You cannot digest baking powder but more importantly it leaves a horrid dry mouth effect. ::) Will try to look those out sometime.
For me anyway its finding a way to enhance the RIGHT spices and use less.
I know there is a current argument on dry roasting spices but it seems to be the only way to get the flavours out in numbers for less content. It also helps in grinding it to a fine powder.
Takers, leavers?
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take the pan off the heat before adding your spice blend and chilli powder.
crucial for me too - so u can give the mix a good stir before hitting the heat again.
my interest is solely in paprika. i'm also convinced on your advice on the burn/going hard during frying. i thought i done this on the 1st go as when i put the 1 tbsp of paprika and 1 tsp of chilli in the pan i realised immediately it was a real mountain. on the 2nd go i watered the tom puree (i've recently started adding puree straight out the tin) but it made no difference. that's why i think Secret Santa is right as i was only using 3 tbsp of oil (i'd of used 6 tbsp in the past with 1/4 tsp paprika & 1/4 to 1 tsp chilli). i'm not using any spice mix in the madras as per CK's spec.
Mikka,
my gut feeling is that roasting does not hold the answer. i'm not 100% yet. i've recently used tgad2007's method of roasting whole spice (which works spot on). i'm not convinced that the roasting is needed so intend to just grind on my next go. the trouble is i don't feel just a side by side comparison of the powder will be valid enough. but at the same time making 2 off batches of base is something i've not got the inclination for.
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my interest is solely in paprika....
JerryM,
FYI, in some Indian cookbooks degghi mirch is referred to as paprika or Indian paprika. When talking to Asian chefs in BIRs if they mention paprika very often they will mean degghi mirch. Maybe worth bearing in mind.
Regards
CoR
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Hi CoR,
It was always my understanding that Deggi Mirch was Chilli powder, and infact it is Kashmiri Mirch that is Paprika ?
Ray
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CoR,
many thanks. i have deggi (use it for tikka) and it is much finer than normal paprika. i'll give it a try. i don't think it's what's giving the taste i'm after but it could be a factor in the colour. my fav store has just started to keep kashmiri mirch and i intend to get on my next purchase.
both are expensive in comparison to normal paprika and i see BIR only using if small amount will go a long way.
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Hello Ray
It was deffo the deggi referred to as paprika although there isn't too much difference between the deggi and kashmiri mirch IME but of the two I find the deggi has better taste/colour, only my preference of course, as they say YMMV.
JerryM
Deggi Mirch costs about ?1 for a 100g packet. Assuming 1tsp is 3g that equals 3 pence/tsp. 1tsp/portion is usually all you need for a great golden reddish/brown curry, so it 'ain't going to break the bank, LOL.
Cheers
CoR
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deggi....deffo....IME....YMMV.....LOL
WTF!!!!!!!!! I'm confused! :o
Floury tasting curries is the LEAST of my problems it seems! LMFAO! :P
Any chance we could speak English please? :-\
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i've had the chance to talk to the chef at my local TA (boss was working elsewhere - i think sign of economic times). it's quite clear that there is difficulty for him and BIR's i guess in general - a keenness to help (to share the passion of cooking curry) but at the same time an understanding that it's their income.
i asked about curry sauce. the chef was very clear - no paprika in it.
he also said lemon juice - i will change to using it although i was well surprised - u can't taste it in the sauce.
the big surprise was chilli sauce. he was clear that he does not buy out but makes his own from chilli powder.
i asked if his tom puree was plain - he said "straight" out of the tin.
i'd pushed him as far as i could.
i intend to look out for some bought chilli sauce (i will know the bottle i used some yrs ago) on my next shopping trip and will also try out the Ashoka South Indian paste as i feel this could be very close.
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Very interesting stuff Jerry thank you.
That's what I heard too, no Paprika.
Check on the Lemon juice. These can be confused at least over here. Lime is used too.
I'm not surprised at the restaurant/store made Chilli sauce at all. This had been my thinking for a great deal of time as you know from our subsequent conversations.
I could almost tell you what was in my sauce from my place but it doesn't really matter frankly. It's the combo hence my erratic post this morning. If its store bought and not made from scratch then it could be as simple as..... If not then we'll never know.
I'm going to try a few things since I have some chicken precooked as per PP tomorrow.
Also............
Check out Amchoor and/or Citric acid.
Never used Amchoor but I have used Citric acid.
i've had the chance to talk to the chef at my local TA (boss was working elsewhere - i think sign of economic times). it's quite clear that there is difficulty for him and BIR's i guess in general - a keenness to help (to share the passion of cooking curry) but at the same time an understanding that it's their income.
i asked about curry sauce. the chef was very clear - no paprika in it.
he also said lemon juice - i will change to using it although i was well surprised - u can't taste it in the sauce.
the big surprise was chilli sauce. he was clear that he does not buy out but makes his own from chilli powder.
i asked if his tom puree was plain - he said "straight" out of the tin.
i'd pushed him as far as i could.
i intend to look out for some bought chilli sauce (i will know the bottle i used some yrs ago) on my next shopping trip and will also try out the Ashoka South Indian paste as i feel this could be very close.
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Mikka,
i have bought amchoor (mango powder) in the past but never really found it any good and have now chucked it.
citric acid is something that keeps catching my eye in the Asian stores. i've never been too sure how it would be used. i guess u're suggesting in the chilli sauce making.
ps i love lime juice and mostly use it in place of lemon for non curry cooking. i've never tried lime in curry and have never in the past really gelled with using lemon. i have recently started using lemon in butter chicken and it works well. so who knows on the curry sauce front.
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Guys I don't know if this will help and please excuse me for referring back to my Ashoka experience ( I suspect any one of you who had got back stage in one of your local BIRs would find it substantially influencing your cooking from that point on too). What stood out for me was the use of the freshly made green chili paste which was used to add heat and clearly doesn't burn easily and there is no powder thing going on. I have made it as per the recipe in the Ashoka post and have frozen it into single postion sizes and it works a treat. The tomato Puree they used was White Tower Brand which I found in Brick Lane in Catering sized cans. I will break it down too into portions and probably freeze too for future use. Hope as ever this does help PP