Curry Recipes Online
British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Main Dishes => BIR Main Dishes Chat => Topic started by: 976bar on August 31, 2009, 01:06 PM
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I've been watching all the posts on this site for some time now, and it seems that everyone concentrates on a base sauce of some description and a "Madras" style main course, which it looks like has been perfected now :) I'm going to try mine later after having made the SMS base this morning.
However, there are many many other styles of BIR Curries to be had out there, and one of the most popular, (probably the most popular dish to be sold) is the Chicken Tikka Masala.
Now while being very mild in comparison to a lot of the "blow your head off chilli freak" recipes we get on here, I have noticed under the CTM section to be many recipes/variants.... and to be honest, I am quite confused as to which one to choose from.....
Can I suggest that now we have perfected the base sauce and the dream Madras, that we now all concentrate our efforts on all the other wonderful BIR curries to be had?
Chicken Tikka Masala is one of them, but what about the Korma? The Dhansak? The Dupiaza amongst others...... :)
It will be quite interesting to see everyones input as they are challenged to come up with the best of the best on these dishes :)
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Can I suggest that now we have perfected the base sauce and the dream Madras
Pray, 976bar, what are these "perfected base sauce" and "dream madras"?
Granted, many bases here (which are much of a muchness) are capable of producing passable BIR curries (and no more).
There are, to my mind, no "perfected base sauces" nor "dream madrases"....unless your expectations are very low or your local BIRs are very crap!
Chicken Tikka Masala is one of them, but what about the Korma? The Dhansak? The Dupiaza amongst others...... :)
I agree there are numerous typical BIR curries, other than madras, and there are recipes posted on this forum for all the dishes that you mention. However, to my mind, none, including any madras recipe, so far come up to (certainly my) BIR expectations.
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Hi CA,
Many thanks for your input. recently I said on here that I was more happy with the "Traditional method" of Indian cooking and have produced far better results for this than any other BIR recipe I have tried on here, and to be honest, I was about to give up on the BIR method.....
However, this morning, I did produce a batch of the SMS base gravy for the very first time, and it does taste good even on its own. I've yet later today to try a madras from this recipe, there is a madras sauce that has been posted on here based on this "base gravy" which I am going to follow and will see how it turns out. I'll let you know. One of the things I noticed immediately from this Madras recipe was the use of lemon juice, which I have always added and have always tasted in my BIR madras, so we'll see as I will be adding it :)
However, it would be good for all the members to try the different dishes on a typical BIR menu and to see what results everyone comes up with.....
Happy cooking all :)
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However, this morning, I did produce a batch of the SMS base gravy for the very first time, and it does taste good even on its own
Are you saying that this SnS base is the "perfected base sauce" then? If so, I strongly disagree.
You can't really just taste the base (i.e. "sauce") without trying a main dish made from it and come to any particularly sensible conclusion about it's merits.
I agree that, otherwise, this base (alone) makes an excellent base for tomato soup. It can also produce very nice (albeit very tomatoey) curries.
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I just made the Madras, and I have to say even though I added lemon juice and thinned it out quite a bit as it was too thick in consistency, I was not overly impressed.
Also I only added 100ml of oil instead of the 250ml oil recommended and I found that it was still far too oily, bearing in mind that I only used the 250ml of base as recommended, I'm afraid that my confidence in making BIR curries has gone back down to zero again.
I think your right Corry, we still haven't cracked it yet.......
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Hi 976bar,
Do you actually like BIR food? The last madras I had from a TA must have had at least 4 tablespoons of oil. This type of food is supposed to be fairly oily. If you had to thin down your madras it sounds like maybe your base sauce was too thick.
I have been trying to cook curries like my favourite TAs and restaurants for over 20 years. I tried and long ago gave up on any genuine indian recipe books in trying to achieve this goal. I do cook a few genuine dhal recipes and a keema peas dish but I still prefer the BIR curries.
Most of the BIR "secret" to my mind is with the base technique. I have a long way to go and many other base recipes to try but with the help of this forum I can cook something much closer to BIR than I have ever achieved before in my life - close but still not close enough.
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976bar Dont give up yet !I also made the sNs base yesterday ,this is the second time I have made this base and I although have made other bases my best Madras Curry results are by using this base and the sNs Madras recipe.I find I need a full 300ml of base per Curry portion and be careful not to overcook the Curry ,once the last ladel of (heated)base is stirred into your Curry it only takes a minute or so stirring until the Curry takes on a uniform colour and it's ready ,if you cook for too long you will only reduce the liquid in the Curry and it can become to thick ,if you then add water you run the risk of a watery tasting curry .
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that we now all concentrate our efforts on all the other wonderful BIR curries to be had?
i live in hope on this one.
it is my sole focus but not the families. i've been told by them quite clearly to stick to what i know. this being admins jalfrezi, CK's CTM, Ashoka Bhuna Korahi, CK's Madras, 976bar's Kashmiri, bitchinsahsa butter chicken. i rate all of these pretty dam close to BIR.
the only real exception is the madras which i feel is still not cracked (i asked to see it cooked at my local TA but they weren't keen and i will need to keep at it softly - i know i could just stand at the counter and watch but i need more).
i also know that the base is only part of the equation. the cooking part is equally important.
the trouble is in fullfilling this dream we'd need to agree on which dish and how to go about it. i've not stomach for this having previously seen that tee shirt.
in terms of personal effort i would be interested in what dishes other people intend/are working on as i would direct my efforts in the same direction. i think we need to work on the better BIR curries though ie pathia, bahar anything really that's on the chef's specialities list.
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What an earth is a "bahar" please Jerry?
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Hi 976bar
As BIR's vary wildly from chef to chef, you are going to have a tough time getting your perfect CTM. The only reason arguments rage on here for so long is because we are all searching for different things. This brilliant forum will show you the basics but if you want to cook a CTM like your local BIR then you have 2 options. a) Spend potentially years trialling different methods and ingredients until you get close enough, or b) get them to show you how they do it. Most chefs I have spoken to are delighted to have the chance to share their knowledge (the owner might not be so keen).
You need to really make yourself known to them, learn all their names make sure they know yours and keep chatting every time you pick up a takeaway or dine in. Once you are sufficiently ingrained, start asking questions. Tell them how much you enjoy cooking curries at home etc. If you are really lucky (like I was) you might be invited to the kitchen to see first hand how they are made, at the very least you might get 5 mins to chat to the chef about how they make it. Try to get an email address for him so you can keep in touch. As long as you keep buying from them, they wont mind sharing information.
I can now make a Madras exactly as I wanted to be able to. It's not what others might be looking for, but its perfect for my taste. I'm going to move onto CTM next so hopefully I will be able to get some recipe ideas, or even a demo if I'm very lucky.
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Indeed, they vary. When I was new here, which I still kind of am, I tried to emulate my favourite CTM. As I am lactose intolerant I wanted to be able to make it at home with cream and milk free from lactose, since I couldn't eat it there any more. Then recently I decided to have one from them to see if I had in any way come close, and guess what, they had changed it! It was still delicious, but suddenly it tasted carroty and more coconuty and with less cardamom than before. When you can't even have the same CTM in the same place I guess that says alot about how varied the curries are in different places. And CTM being so mild is extra hard to get right, no heat to cover your cock-ups. ;)
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And CTM being so mild is extra hard to get right, no heat to cover your cock-ups. ;)
I totally agree with that Hargiwald....it seems to me that the milder the curry, the harder it is to reproduce!
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I just made the Madras, and I have to say even though I added lemon juice and thinned it out quite a bit as it was too thick in consistency, I was not overly impressed.
Also I only added 100ml of oil instead of the 250ml oil recommended and I found that it was still far too oily, bearing in mind that I only used the 250ml of base as recommended, I'm afraid that my confidence in making BIR curries has gone back down to zero again.I think your right Corry, we still haven't cracked it yet.......
When I found this thread, I hoped it would be about Chicken Tikka Masala, as per the subject heading. Some hope! As I see it, there's no shortage of dozens of recipes worth trying for CTM, Kormas, Dhansaks and most other BIR dishes. so I can't see a problem there. With respect, you altered the Madras recipe so much by reducing the oil from 250ml to 100ml that your results can't really be valid, can they?
It always make me laugh how some people tend to reduce oil, salt and other unhealthy ingredients when trying to recreate BIR curries at home. Wrong! BIR curries must be about the least healthy food out there. Do you ask how many ml of oil they put in your BIR curry before ordering at the BIR? I doubt it, so if you want to recreate a similar dish at home, you probably need to add lots of oil and an incredible amount of salt.
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No wonder we're the biggest nation in Europe for heart attacks then... ;) As BIR seems to be the national dish here now :)
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Ok so what are the best 2 ctm recipies on this site? i have been meaning to make this for 1 year. they seem to have got lost since this site has been modified. Is the ck ctm the best here ? cheers
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Found the missing ctm links, sorry. is the ck ctm all that ?
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Right!!!!
If you want the healthy style, I made this last night and it was fabulous and not a base or a depletion on the worlds oil sources either.... :)
CTM
Chicken Tikka Masala
Ingredients
300gms. boneless chicken breast
100 gms finely chopped Onions
3 finely chopped fresh tomato
1 cup single cream
1 tsp minced ginger
1 tsp crushed garlic
1 tsp sugar
1/4 tsp cumin powder
1/2 tsp mace & cardamom powder
1/4 tsp fenugreek powder
1/4 tsp chilli powder
1/4 tsp turmeric
4 tbsp vegetable oil
Salt To Taste
1 tbsp butter
50gms Almond powder
Honey to taste
How to make masala:
Cut the chicken into 2 inch cubes.
Take fry pan add oil, then fry Onions to Golden Brown , then ginger and garlic, remaining spices, tomato and salt. Cook over low heat until reduced to a thick sauce. Add chicken tikka, butter and cream.
Add fenugreek, Sugar, almond powder and honey. Garnish with fresh coriander or cream.
Ok, for starters I did not have any mace powder so left that out. I made my Cardamom powder from the seeds of green cardamoms. I used a quarter of a teaspoon which I found a little overpowering, so in future I will use an 1/8th of a teaspoon.
I had no honey, so I used maple syrup and I also added one teaspoon of tomato puree.
I also had no fresh tomatoes, so I used half a 400g can of plump italian plum tomatoes.
After having cooked the onions, ginger, garlic, tomatoes, salt and remaining spices, I blended the lot to a smooth puree in a food blender.
Then I returned it all to the pot and continued from there. I only had double cream so I used some of that and then thinned it out a bit with some semi skimmed milk.
I have been making CTM quite badly at home for some years, but I have never seen this demolished by my kids so quickly ever!!
I thought I had some left over for lunch today, but when I looked in the fridge I found that my daughter had stolen it last night to take to work with her for her lunch!!! grrrrrrrrr :)
This is really worth a try, and I know I will be slated by all the BIR fanatics on this web site.... sorry guys/gals, but it is very good... :)
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And many thanks If the person who forwarded this to me will reveal himself... :)
I hope I'm wrong but is it fair of you to (a) reveal the originator's real name and (b) rush straight over here to post a recipe which he sent to you, presumably in confidence? If he'd wanted to publish the recipe here, I guess he would have done. Unless and until he indicates he's OK with your post, I suggest you should remove it.
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DD - I think the CK CTM is the best on the site. That said its only about 90% to the best I've had... Personal taste anyway.
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Sorry George, and sorry to everyone for revealing the originators details, but I was so impressed with this recipe that I wanted to share it with everyone. It didn't occur to me that the originator would not have wanted this...... :(
I now feel ashamed as I did not want in anyway to reveal anyones identity. I think I should remove myself from this site.
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976bar - wherever the recipe came from, I'm not sure its going to hit the mark for me personally.
At a first glance, it doesn't appear it will be sweet enough, and there is no coconut - which has been part of any CTM I've ever had. I don't see where a "tandoori" flavour would come from anyway, unless that the mace and cardamom powder (I'm not familiar with using those in BIR unless part of a mix).
To be honest that looks very very close to a few butter chicken recipes I've tried over the years, some of them excellent, before I discovered cooking with base.
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Also, where is the tikka part of this recipe? - it just says chicken.
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What an earth is a "bahar" please Jerry?
"Garlic Chili Bahar (chicken or lamb) A very hot dish, extensively prepared with fresh garlic and chillies in a lingerring piquant sauce".
it's not that hot top end of madras. it's like a cross between a jalfrezi and a madras. u can't see much/any green chilli but that's what gives the heat. the piquant bit is what makes it but i can't fathom what makes it different to a madras ie how u get the "piquant".
chriswg,
please post your madras recipe if u get chance or at least point out any differences to what's on the site already. i need to wait till the boss goes on hols.
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I think I should remove myself from this site.
976bar,
u're a VIP in my book - stick with us and let other's carry humps if they so wish.
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Thanks JerryM :)
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Sorry George, and sorry to everyone for revealing the originators details, but I was so impressed with this recipe that I wanted to share it with everyone. It didn't occur to me that the originator would not have wanted this...... :(
I now feel ashamed as I did not want in anyway to reveal anyones identity. I think I should remove myself from this site.
All's good ::) (http://www.instantsmileys.com/smileys/drinking-smiley-28.gif) (http://www.instantsmileys.com)
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in terms of personal effort i would be interested in what dishes other people intend/are working
maybe CTM given the topic title should be the focus. josh feels there's room for improvement and it should be of interest to most given it's popularity.
i'm referring to the masala part as tikka is dealt with more than adequately elsewhere. also given CK's is already very close this should be an easy one to crack (i don't believe it for a minute - nothing BIR is simple else we would not be here).
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this should be an easy one to crack
I really don't think so Jerry. There doesn't even seem to be consensus on a general method yet.
- CK's follows the more standard curry method, with no yogurt or Pataks
- Others use Pataks
- Some use coconut block, others coconut powder
- Some use Pataks and yorgurt (like the Youtube video)
I'd like it if the were a few "CTM-friendly" members who would like to give the Youtube CTM a go. To me its very close (95%). I'd like to see opinions on how YOU think it stacks up to CK's excellent recipe.
-- Josh
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this should be an easy one to crack
I really don't think so Jerry. There doesn't even seem to be consensus on a general method yet.
- CK's follows the more standard curry method, with no yogurt or Pataks
- Others use Pataks
- Some use coconut block, others coconut powder
- Some use Pataks and yorgurt (like the Youtube video)
I'd like it if the were a few "CTM-friendly" members who would like to give the Youtube CTM a go. To me its very close (95%). I'd like to see opinions on how YOU think it stacks up to CK's excellent recipe.
-- Josh
Hi Josh,
I have tried the youtube one, I feel its the best I've tasted other than one or two restaurants, and I've had a few CTMs in my time,
I haven't yet tried CKs CTM but it will have to be good to beat that one, I'll try CKs soon,
Bob
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976bar - wherever the recipe came from, I'm not sure its going to hit the mark for me personally.
At a first glance, it doesn't appear it will be sweet enough, and there is no coconut - which has been part of any CTM I've ever had. I don't see where a "tandoori" flavour would come from anyway, unless that the mace and cardamom powder (I'm not familiar with using those in BIR unless part of a mix).
To be honest that looks very very close to a few butter chicken recipes I've tried over the years, some of them excellent, before I discovered cooking with base.
I didn't use just chicken breast. I actually had some turkey breast meat last week and made that into "Turkey Tikka" with this recipe.
Ingredients
600g Chicken - 4 or 5 breasts
1 heaped tablespoon Pataks tikka curry paste
1 heaped tsp garlic paste
1 tsp ginger paste
2 tablespoons lemon juice (Jiff is ok)
1/2 tsp chilli powder
1 desert spoon spice mixture (equal parts ground coriander, turmeric, garam masala, curry powder). I use this same mix for my curries.
1/4 tsp Orange food colouring (If powder just a sprinkle)
1 level tsp methi
1 level tsp salt
2 tablespoons veg oil
3 tablespoons water
Method
1. Chop the chicken breasts into 2 or 3 pieces each
2. Mix in 2 tablespoons lemon juice to the chopped chicken, leave for 15 mins
3. Meanwhile mix the rest of the ingredients in a bowl
4. Add the runny spice mixture to the chicken, cover and leave in fridge for 2 hours minimum
5. Put 3 of 4 pieces of Chicken onto skewers
6. Heat oven grill to highest temp and leave on full blast for 5mins to ensure it is HOT
7. Place skewers on a dish where both ends of the skewer are supported at both sides of the dish making sure the dish is deep avoid the chicken touching the bottom (i.e. ensure the chicken is suspended)
8. Place dish under grill (I try to get the chicken pieces about 2 inches from the grill element
9. Cook for 2-3 minutes turn once and give them another 2-3 mins
That recipe which I got off of here and have stuck with this as it is really tasty.
So I added that to the Masala. I've since made another batch of the CTM, this time with both Almond powder and coconut, (both desicated and creamed block). I also added some natural Palm sugar which I prefer to that processed crap, and it tastes pretty much like the one I get from the local TA, if not better..... :)
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Josh,
this i think is the video u refer to Indian Restaurant Chicken Tikka Masala (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B5e1xMxrz4&feature=related#normal)
the recipe looks real good and certainly likely to be BIR or thereabouts. for me i'm not keen on the use of pataks.
what i was getting at is that given u are still looking for something to get the dish right then we need to pinpoint what this is. the same but different "something" probably applies to quite a few members give the dishes popularity.
what i was seeking was for members to post what they feel is important or key in getting the best CTM result.
for example these being my own:
1) decide if u prefer coconut block or coconut flour (i make both versions and they are very different)
2) what do BIR's use to get the creaminess. do they use milk for example as even single cream is expensive. i use evaporated milk as i always have it to hand and works well although i've never tried cream. it's more expensive than cream but u don't need as much.
3) a little of the tikka marinade lifts the dish
4) what do BIR's do to get the masala part of it. i follow CK's method of frying the spices and tomato puree as i do for all curries. should we be converting this into a liquid masala first like the utube video. the CK method is quick and easy though. would it really make a difference
5) the u tube video adds the coconut flour and sugar before the base. i add after. does it really make a difference. i can't really see it.
6) the type of tandoori masala powder is crucial. it needs to be the pink variety not the dark red
if a good few of us put these sort of thought's down it might just give us a clearer picture of where improvement might lie.
it's quite ironic for me on this particular dish. it's the only dish that my family no longer request from the TA. i guess they moved up the Curry evolution ladder now having preference for chef specialities. it (CK's) remains high on the regularly request list when i'm cooking at home though.
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Josh,
this i think is the video u refer to Indian Restaurant Chicken Tikka Masala (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B5e1xMxrz4&feature=related#normal)
the recipe looks real good and certainly likely to be BIR or thereabouts. for me i'm not keen on the use of pataks.
what i was getting at is that given u are still looking for something to get the dish right then we need to pinpoint what this is. the same but different "something" probably applies to quite a few members give the dishes popularity.
what i was seeking was for members to post what they feel is important or key in getting the best CTM result.
for example these being my own:
1) decide if u prefer coconut block or coconut flour (i make both versions and they are very different)
2) what do BIR's use to get the creaminess. do they use milk for example as even single cream is expensive. i use evaporated milk as i always have it to hand and works well although i've never tried cream. it's more expensive than cream but u don't need as much.
3) a little of the tikka marinade lifts the dish
4) what do BIR's do to get the masala part of it. i follow CK's method of frying the spices and tomato puree as i do for all curries. should we be converting this into a liquid masala first like the utube video. the CK method is quick and easy though. would it really make a difference
5) the u tube video adds the coconut flour and sugar before the base. i add after. does it really make a difference. i can't really see it.
6) the type of tandoori masala powder is crucial. it needs to be the pink variety not the dark red
if a good few of us put these sort of thought's down it might just give us a clearer picture of where improvement might lie.
it's quite ironic for me on this particular dish. it's the only dish that my family no longer request from the TA. i guess they moved up the Curry evolution ladder now having preference for chef specialities. it (CK's) remains high on the regularly request list when i'm cooking at home though.
Hi Jerry,
Just watched that video. He puts up the list of ingredients for the masala paste and it lists 1 teaspoon of mixed powder. Any ideas what that might be? Or is that the 1/2 tsp garam masala and the 1/2 tsp salt?.............
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it lists 1 teaspoon of mixed powder. Any ideas what that might be?
It's "spice mix" (yet another concocted name for masala)
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it lists 1 teaspoon of mixed powder. Any ideas what that might be?
It's "spice mix" (yet another concocted name for masala)
That'll be the secret ingredient that they don't give away then. I'll try the usual one I make from here.
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CA - did you read that "spice mix" as being tandoori masala, or standard turmeric/coriander/curry... like the BE mix?
-- Josh
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I read it as "mix powder" = "spice mix" = "coriander, cumin, tumeric, paprika, curry powder, and maybe chilli powder (plus minor ingredients, perhaps)' = "curry powder" = "masala"...
..but, I think in the context of this video, it's not tandoori masala
....I could be wrong! :P
I'd just use the Bruce Edward's "Spice Mix", or similar.
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for what it's worth i (CK's) uses both spice mix and tandoori masala powder in the CTM.
the choice of both creates a vast range in the taste of the dish.
i've settled on a spice mix that has no curry powder (LB - using coriander, cumin, paprika) and the pink variety of tandoori masala (Leena brand or equivalent).
these spices are at the heart of the dish.
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Jerry, maybe part of my problem is that I may have crap tandoori masala. None of the common / known-good brands that others have mentioned seem be sold where I live. Once as an experiment I bought four different brands of "tandoori masala" and made four masala sauces. The variation was huge.
That said one of the things that I liked about the Youtube CTM was that the tandoori masala in that one obviously comes from the Patak's in the red masala. SO at least I know I'm getting this one right.
-- Josh
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I made this one last night and it was very nice. As the guy said in the video 'its as good as most and better than some'. I also marinated and grilled some chicken breasts with the Red Masala Paste but I don't think that was as nice as Blades Tikka. This gets me thinking that it could be improved if I concocted a Masala Paste based on Blades Tikka recipe.
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I've never seen a chicken tikka masala cooked in a BIR. CBM states, in his video, that "this is my take" (i.e. interpretation?) on one.
Does anyone who has seen one prepared know if first dry frying (i.e. using no oil) coconut powder and sugar is normal BIR practice for making a chicken tikka masala?
I saw this video a while ago but, like Jerry, I was put off making it by the use of Pataks pastes (I use tandoori masala), though I don't doubt that many BIRs will be using Pataks pastes to make their CTM.
I guess I'm going to have to give this a go....
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Does anyone who has seen one prepared know if first dry frying (i.e. using no oil) coconut powder and sugar is normal BIR practice for making a chicken tikka masala?
CA - one of the CBM videos is a kitchen shoot from a real BIR making a korma. It starts with the coconut and sugar in the pan and follows the exact same method CBM uses in the CTM, with the only change being the addition of the masala paste to make it CTM.
I made this one last night and it was very nice. As the guy said in the video 'its as good as most and better than some'. I also marinated and grilled some chicken breasts with the Red Masala Paste but I don't think that was as nice as Blades Tikka. This gets me thinking that it could be improved if I concocted a Masala Paste based on Blades Tikka recipe.
Currymonster - I'm not sure that the chicken tikka is made with the masala paste. It could be, but like you, I'm sold on the Blades Tikka. The biggest difference between Blade's tikka and other tikka marinades (including the CBM masala in the CTM) is the absence of yogurt. Add yogurt to Blade's marinade, and you will see its somewhat similar to the CBM marinade.
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one of the CBM videos is a kitchen shoot from a real BIR making a korma. It starts with the coconut and sugar in the pan and follows the exact same method CBM uses in the CTM, with the only change being the addition of the masala paste to make it CTM
So coconut and sugar is dried fried (without oil) first?
Can anyone else substantiate this as typical BIR practice for CTM and korma?
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CA - the video is here for the BIR korma. http://www.kitchenstreaming.com/play.php?vid=102 (http://www.kitchenstreaming.com/play.php?vid=102)
CBM follows this exactly (including the rapid boil / reduction phase) for the CTM.
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I made this one last night and it was very nice. As the guy said in the video 'its as good as most and better than some'. I also marinated and grilled some chicken breasts with the Red Masala Paste but I don't think that was as nice as Blades Tikka. This gets me thinking that it could be improved if I concocted a Masala Paste based on Blades Tikka recipe.
Currymonster - I'm not sure that the chicken tikka is made with the masala paste. It could be, but like you, I'm sold on the Blades Tikka. The biggest difference between Blade's tikka and other tikka marinades (including the CBM masala in the CTM) is the absence of yogurt. Add yogurt to Blade's marinade, and you will see its somewhat similar to the CBM marinade.
I agree that the tikka probably isn't made with the Red Masala Paste but the recipe he gives makes so much of the damn stuff I thought I had to try and put it to good use ;)
I was thinking of either adding some yoghurt to Blades recipe and using that in place of the Red Masala or just by using a smaller amount of Blades marinade in the finished dish. I wouldn't be surprised if BIRs use their tikka marinade in the finished dish. Does anybody know if they do?
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CA - the video is here for the BIR korma. http://www.kitchenstreaming.com/play.php?vid=102 (http://www.kitchenstreaming.com/play.php?vid=102)
Thanks Josh,
Great video. Very interesting. Credit to CBM!
So this korma is simply dry fried (no oil) coconut powder and sugar plus base plus butter ghee plus cream.
Just goes to show how important the base is (there is very little "technique" involved).
Is this Fatima restaurant on the Isle of White? Anyone tried it?
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CA's question is very important to me.
i haven't seen CTM cooked in BIR so can only go on what i've experience in cooking myself.
since joining the site i've used 1 method to cook all the curries whatever they are. this being 3 stages in simple terms of: oil, spice, base.
for a while now i've progressively started to reduce the spice cooking stage for CTM and have almost got to the point of throwing everything in at the start.
hence my interest in CA's question. is there say 2 methods of cooking that BIR's use.
one for the low spice/high cream dishes. i use cream as i can't think of anything else. i include the likes of korma and butter chicken.
one for the rest where the dish relies much more on the spice for it's flavour.
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is there say 2 methods of cooking that BIR's use.
The Fatima suggests that there are different methods. Not sure if this is a widespread BIR practice, but the CTM from the video is pretty good...
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Hi Josh, and any others with ctm experience ! other than this recipe, what is the other best ctm to try for a ctm novice? i like it quite sweet and creamy, to contrast the normal hot spicy dishes i have been making lately. if there are any new ideas anyone wants me to test, let me know. as i plan on doing lots of ctm for the next month. its a great dish, which i have neglected so far, as i worked on the madras type curries. I need a break from the heat ! so does my arse ! ;D cheers DD
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Hey DD, if I were to select 3 (quite different) CTM's to muck about with to find the best for you, I'd suggest:
1) YouTube/CBM CTM - this is apparently the best CTM to come out of my kitchen (so say the 4 CTM nuts who insist on it every weekend). Don't forget the rapid boil period at the end. Makes a big difference. Uses yogurt, which brings a unique taste (didn't think I'd like it)
2) Curry Kings CTM - this was my standard since I joined CR0. Simple Madras-like method (though still sweet and creamy) with predictable results.
3) CA's CTM - this one is really sweet and really rich. CA breaks it out into 'required' and 'optional' ingredients. Its a very busy dish, but somewhere in that mix of optional ingredients may be the ultimate CTM.
Hope this helps.
-- Josh
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Thanks alot Josh. thats just the ticket ! The ultimate CTM hey ! I like the sound of that.
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i put the 2 method cooking to the test last night.
i made a 976bar kashmiri as my "CTM". i left out the onion but used fine chopped garlic. i chucked everything in at the start and just let it cook.
it tasted almost as good as it normally does but i am pretty much sure it would be short if compared side by side with my norm 3 stage cooking approach. the garlic was slightly undercooked and more like the garlic bread taste which i don't like in a curry. i also hardly got any smoke which for me is no good. the all in method would not work if onion is being added (unless pre cooked). i guess the onion and garlic / paste are the reasons for the 2 methods.
i concluded in CTM and related dishes the "all in" approach works just as good.
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Jerry, what ctm recipe and extra tweaks do you endorse. i am sure the info from you and josh , would be more than enough to satisfy my cravings ! i will post my results in a month. might try to get some info from my chef also
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DD,
i've only made CK's - it hit the spot with the family and we've stuck with it. Secret Santa got me into using coconut flour. i now make 2 version's one with the block for my lad (u have to cut into small chunks, i think i'm even going to try grating - to speed up the melting) and the other for me and the good lady. the coconut flour is authentic BIR whilst the block isn't but it does taste good all the same.
i think i've posted how i use CK's in CK's post but add here for convenience (1 portion): oil 2 tbsp, 1 tbsp fine garlic (2 cloves), tom puree 1 tbsp (in water), LB spice mix 1 tsp, Leena Tandoori Masala powder 1.5 tbsp, base 300ml, carnation 2 tbsp, cream coconut 50g (or 3 to 4 tbsp flour), chopped coriander 1 tbsp, tikka marinade (CA's) 2 tbsp. i don't use onion paste for this recipe. if i use the flour i add 100 ml of water. i also use the ashoka garlic/ginger paste when i have it in place of the chopped garlic (i still can't decide which i like best)
i quite often make a 3 or 4 potion in my wok. i just pro rata up the ingredients.
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Yes -- good point Jerry - I too have moved from Coco block to Coco powder - for purely BIR authenticity reasons.
Jerry - I think a tbsp of Garlic is too much, in a CTM anyway. I'd also think 1.5 tbsp of tandoori masala is too much. For me the miss on CTM isnt in the spicing, more in the sweet/creamy department.
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I think it is reasonably clear (from reports from actual BIRs) that the basics of a typical BIR Chicken Tikka Masala are:
- A decent, mildly spiced, curry base*
- Tandoori pastes and/or masala
- Tomato paste (perhaps)
- Precooked chicken tikka
- Coconut powder (lots of)
- Some almond powder (perhaps)
- Sugar (lots of)
- Single cream (lots of)
*I think SnS's would be a good base for a CTM, because of the tomatoes, or the Ashoka, because of the coconut and margarine (i.e. it's inherent creaminess)
For me the miss on CTM isnt in the spicing, more in the sweet/creamy department
I agree Josh, hence the multitude of "options" (e.g. evaporated milk, condensed milk, creamed coconut block, tomato sauce, etc) that I've included in my CTM recipe. However, I reckon most BIRs are unlikely to use much more than the above as main ingredients.
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Hi all, from a quick demo at my local last night, they use lots of watered down tomato puree , (1 chef spoon, or more ), lots of almond, lots of cocnut powder. it was hard to see if he added spice mix, (i think so) . the rest was a blur as it was so dam quick. i will try to demo this again next visit. i think the base was half the amount used for madras. about 2 ladels approx 150 ml, i guess. of course it also had the missing 5 percent taste , and was dreamy.
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For the watered down tomato puree, check out KTC Tomato Paste (double concentrated). I'm pretty sure that is what the BIR's use. I found a big tin of it in Bookers cash and carry today.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8ZixU3Nbf9c/Sqj-aMqf1iI/AAAAAAAAAZk/Nl0j0N3SD7A/s144/2009-09-10%2014.08.10.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LhpnMJ0p_9L_hsKvLHYw0g?authkey=Gv1sRgCMzHr-q7y5XQPA&feat=embedwebsite)
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I think it is reasonably clear (from reports from actual BIRs) that the basics of a typical BIR Chicken Tikka Masala are:
A decent, mildly spiced, curry base*
Tandoori pastes and/or masala
Tomato paste (perhaps)
Precooked chicken tikka
Coconut powder (lots of)
Some almond powder (perhaps)
Sugar (lots of)
Single cream (lots of)
*I think SnS's would be a good base for a CTM, because of the tomatoes, or the Ashoka, because of the coconut and margarine (i.e. it's inherent creaminess)
Quote from: josh
For me the miss on CTM isnt in the spicing, more in the sweet/creamy department
I agree Josh, hence the multitude of "options" (e.g. evaporated milk, condensed milk, creamed coconut block, tomato sauce, etc) that I've included in my CTM recipe. However, I reckon most BIRs are unlikely to use much more than the above as main ingredients.
One ingredient you missed there, which has become my ingredient of focus to figure this CTM thing out -- yogurt (unless you included it in the list as masala)
The CBM video CTM uses a LOT of it. I've always had trouble justifying a sour ingredient like yogurt in a sweet dish. But it seems to work to a degree.
Maybe there's some science in "what becomes of the yogurt" after the rapid boil. Not sure...
-- Josh
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One ingredient you missed there, which has become my ingredient of focus to figure this CTM thing out -- yogurt
Yes, I noticed all that yoghurt in CBM's video. I have my doubts about it and seldom use it (for the reasons you give). That's why I didn't include it (I haven't seen it mentioned in many other reports)
However, I have yet to try CBM's recipe, but I intend to soon.
By "masala", I meant a blend of tandoori/tikka spices in either a powdered or paste form.
"Red masala" often crops up (and is often observed), which seems to be a mixture of these spices with the coconut powder, cream, (maybe yoghurt?), etc.
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Hi ca, i intend on doing a comparison this weekend between cbm ctm , and your CA ctm. when i have finished making love to the 9 - 5 job, the battle will commence !
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hi folks,
been a while since ive posted here,but have been following the developments avidly!!...anyway,found this on the web,looks v promising.
CTM of the Year 2002 as voted in the Best in Britain Awards (BIBA)
Chef Manzoor Ahmed of Tabaq Restaurant South Clapham, London
Ingredients :
1lb large diced boneles chicken breast
1 oz garlic
1 oz ginger
4 tbs fresh natural yoghurt
2 small fresh green chillies
1 tsp salt
1 tbs lemon juice
1 tsp coriander powder
1 tsp cumin powder
1 tbs red paprika
4-5 fresh green coriander
Method :
Grind fresh green chilies, fresh coriander, garlic and ginger with 2-3 tbs water until a thick paste is formed. Marinate the chicken in the paste then add the salt and yoghurt. Next add the lemon juice, cumin, coriander powder and red paprika and mix thoroughly. Leave chicken to marinate in the paste overnight.
Sauce :
4 oz chopped onions
3 oz ghee
1 oz ground garlic
1 oz ground ginger
3 oz yoghurt
1/2 tsp cumin powder
2 tbs desicated coconut
4 oz fresh single cream
2 medium tomatoes (liquidised)
1.2 tsp salt
1/2 tsp chilli powder
1/2 tsp coriander powder
pinch dried methi
Method :
Take marinated chicken and cook on skewers in tandoor or 10-12 minutes under a grill on a moderate high heat.
Fry onions in the ghee
Add tomatoes and yoghurt and mix on low/moderate heat. Add cumin powder, chilli powder, coriander powder, salt, desicated coconut, dried methi and fresh single cream and mix thoroughly. Water may be added if more liquid is required. Add cooked pieces or chicken to the sauce and mix well. Leave to simmer on low heat. Transfer to serving dish garnish with a little single cream and sprinkle liberally with fresh coriander and garam masala.
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Hi lagathy - as one in the pursuit of BIR CTM, I can say that I tried this about 18 months or more ago.
My conclusion was that it was yet another good "made for home" CTM... but nowhere a good BIR CTM.
Note it contains no sweetener. That in itself rules itself out for me.
-- Josh
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I finally got around to trying CBM's chicken tikka masala last night.
It certainly made for an enjoyable curry and I'm sure that many people would be very happy with it. However, for me, I didn't much like the tartness imparted by the yoghurt and Patak pastes (which was much as I anticipated before trying it).
For me, a decent BIR CTM is far more savoury, rich and creamy than this.
When I've made a masala paste, I've generally used single cream instead of yoghurt and tandoori masala instead of Patak pastes. I'd certainly cut back on (or remove) the yoghurt and Patak pastes if I made this again.
Excellent videos by CBM though! 8)
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Hi CA,
Yes, If there was one criticism I could make, it was the tartness of the yoghurt (I dont' personally think the Pataks was as much to blame).
Would you suggest simply replacing the yogurt with single cream? If so, how much of the 150ml of added cream (per CBM spec) would you eliminate?
Thx,
Josh
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Hi Josh,
I think you're right about the tartness coming primarily from the yoghurt
Too much of the Patak stuff can certainly cause tartness, too, I find. There are about 2 tsp of Patak pastes in this CTM (to my reckoning) which isn't a huge amount. However, I am generally reluctant to use any more than about 1 tsp (usually less) of any Patak (or any other brand) pastes in any curry. I generally don't use any, but adding a little can pick up the flavour a bit, I find.
I'd just replace all of the yoghurt with single cream and still add the 150ml of cream at the end (or add enough to get the desired consistency).
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I too have tried this several times now,
I find the brand of yoghurt makes a large difference to the tartness you speak about, I use Sainsburys basic yoghurt (which I'm assuming you won't have), its fairly mild,
I find some of the greek style yoghurts can be too sharp,
Regards,
Bob ;)
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Hi Josh,
I think you're right about the tartness coming primarily from the yoghurt
Too much of the Patak stuff can certainly cause tartness, too, I find. There are about 2 tsp of Patak pastes in this CTM (to my reckoning) which isn't a huge amount. However, I am generally reluctant to use any more than about 1 tsp (usually less) of any Patak (or any other brand) pastes in any curry. I generally don't use any, but adding a little can pick up the flavour a bit, I find.
I'd just replace all of the yoghurt with single cream and still add the 150ml of cream at the end (or add enough to get the desired consistency).
I find the Tesco Greek Yogurt to be quite mild and certainly nowhere near as tart as their plain yogurt.
Try adding some natural palm sugar instead of the granulated stuff you buy in a packet, it makes all the difference to the sweetness of a dish.
If you want to keep it relatively healthy, and I am sure CTM is not at the top of the list here, why not use half yogurt and half cream?
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Thanks for the suggestions.
I often use Greek yoghurt (in tikka marinade for instance) precisely because I find it is less tart and more creamy than most other yoghurts. I used run-of-the-mill full fat yoghurt when I made this CTM (as suggested by CBM).
However, no matter which I use in a main dish I have always found it adds a tartness I do not like. So, for me anyway, I refrain from using it in CTM preferring, instead, to use cream.
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Interesting discussion. Here, believe it or not, there only seems to be one brand of plain yoghurt that is commonly available. It just says "Mediterranean Style", which I'm guessing is Greek. Even in the Indian grocery.
The family unanimously voted the CBM CTM as the best I've made (and like JerryM, they hate it when I change things up with my recipes). The tartness of the yoghurt bothered me about the result personally.
I will try CA's suggestion and swap out the yoghurt for cream and try the result.
-- Josh
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The family unanimously voted the CBM CTM as the best I've made (and like JerryM, they hate it when I change things up with my recipes).
-- Josh
I'm under orders to stick to my trusted carnation and CK's recipe for the mo.
one thing that i forgot to mention when i tried the CBM "all in" method of cooking the kasmiri dish was the very good words of BE. he said chilli is only a problem in the morning if it's not fried in the curry the night before. i did not doubt his words but can now say i have gained valuable experience in such matters.
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The family unanimously voted the CBM CTM as the best I've made (and like JerryM, they hate it when I change things up with my recipes).
-- Josh
I'm under orders to stick to my trusted carnation and CK's recipe for the mo.
one thing that i forgot to mention when i tried the CBM "all in" method of cooking the kasmiri dish was the very good words of BE. he said chilli is only a problem in the morning if it's not fried in the curry the night before. i did not doubt his words but can now say i have gained valuable experience in such matters.
Hi Jerry,
Stick with what suits you best. And I have to agree on the chilli point, it does need to be cooked properly if you are to avoid those problems in the morning.... :)
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However, no matter which I use in a main dish I have always found it adds a tartness I do not like. So, for me anyway, I refrain from using it in CTM preferring, instead, to use cream.
Ohhhh give me strength CA! In your own recipe for CTM you add bloody lemon juice! Why complain (correctly) about the unwanted tartness of yoghurt if you're going to bung the dreaded lemon juice in?
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In your own recipe for CTM you add bloody lemon juice!
Yes, you're right SS, I did say I like to add the lemon juice to give it a "slight tartness"......but I'm not sure that adding 1.5 tsp of lemon juice can be reasonably compared to adding about 4 tbsp of yoghurt in a single serving.
I guess it's all about balance (with what are, otherwise, completely different CTM recipes).
I have no hang ups with someone leaving out the lemon juice (in my CTM) if they prefer it without. I certainly don't find it too tarty, by any means, with it in.