Curry Recipes Online
British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Main Dishes => BIR Main Dishes Chat => Topic started by: ast on February 03, 2008, 05:28 PM
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I'm sure this is a pretty dumb question, but here goes...
I've never eaten or seen a bhuna except in the pictures on this site, but I have eaten a few real restaurant jalfrezis, so I'm familiar-ish with what they're supposed to be like. Looking at the response to CK's bhuna recipe and subsequently going through the rest of the ones on the site, it looks like the ingredients and cooking methods are nearly interchangeable. Is the only real difference that you should use less base for a bhuna and maybe nix the lemon juice/sour accent?
I've read the "unofficial" histories of both dishes on the Web in a few places, and know that bhuna's really a cooking style and jalfrezi was originally an extremely dry stir-fry used to gussy up leftovers much the same way as the original recipes for gumbo do. However, history doesn't really seem to translate well to the modern BIR, so any insights would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
ast
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I get both fairly regularly. Jalfrezi always has large pieces of Capsicum and onion, wheras the Bhuna is far less chunky. The Jalfrezi is dryer and hotter too. That's just my local, so I may well be wrong.
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Looking at the recipes on here a second time, I guess I was more influenced by the ingredient list of CK's bhuna than the others. Regarding the consistency, I'd have thought that it'd be the other way around based on the jalfrezi's I've eaten. They haven't struck me as particularly dry as I recall.
I'll be back in town more regularly in the next couple of months, so I'll be closer to the real deal. I'll start exploring various places' take on the two and see if it jives with your own experience.
Cheers for the response.
ast
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I wonder if there are regional variations (UK-wise) on what each curry actually is :-\
I live very close to Wakefield, Leeds, Bradford and Dewsbury (all very heavily populated with curry houses ;D ) but Jalfrezis as I know them have to be cooked using peas and beaten egg (the beaten egg seems to be added last and sits like scrambled egg through the curry....might not sound nice to some, but trust me, it's delicious! :P ) I've never ordered a Jalfrezi from any restaurant/takeaway that has not had egg added and believe me over the years that racks up to an awful lot! yet I've never seen a recipe posted anywhere that actually uses them. :-X
It's the same with pathias......a pathia as I know them (and I've never had one that's been any different) has extensive use of mango/mango chutney, again, I've not seen any recipes posted that make them this way, so I have to ask, are all the curry houses I've ever used making curries wrong? I've made pathias using the non-mango recipes and have found them all to be sadly lacking :-\
Is it just a Yorkshire thing? ???
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Pathia does have a very distinctive taste and I've never actually managed to achieve it yet.
I've used lemon juice and white sugar, amchuur powder + sugar, both amchuur powder and lemon juice and sugar and more recently anardana powder, lemon juice and sugar.
Perhaps it's the sugar that's wrong?
Never had a Jalfrezi egg omelette yet, sounds nice.
SnS ;D
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lol try it with a nice mango chutney SnS :P
I found a recipe on Delia.com which uses mango chutney if you're interested...
http://www.deliaonline.com/messageboard/7/24995/thread.html
If you look at the replies and their authors, it may also interest some other members that despite one of the replies come from someone with ten years experience, he doesn't know what a pathia is or where it comes from....or maybe the restaurant he's worked in never sold any ??? ::)
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Hi Domi
I shall try the Mango chuts next time - thanks.
Have you tried that recipe? It looks a very "fussy" ... so many ingredients.
... and as for someone who's supposed to have "10 years experience" and thinks a Pathia is a dish invented for the UK market back in the 60's ! Well .. speaks for itself really doen't it?
I notice that the recipe has coconut in it ... and has no souring ingredient (lemon, tamarind, amchuur, etc) ... unusual for Pathia isn't it (?)
(btw - I forget to include tamarind on previous post, I've also tried that!)
Regards
SnS ;D
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Perhaps it's the sugar that's wrong?
You should try jaggery (jaggery goor). It has a very intense flavour which is quite different to ordinary sugar, and as I suspect that all combinations of the other ingredients you mentioned are used in various BIR recipes you'll need to experiment to get the exact match for you.
You should also try runny honey and lime juice. So in all you've got about 10 different combinations there, you're going to be pathia'd out by the time you get through them!
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Hi Domi,
I've never seen any kind of BIR curry listed with egg in it. That sounds very interesting. I have to say, though, if I got one in my Jalfrezi, I'd be a little disappointed. Still, it wouldn't surprise me about regional differences. I would've thought they'd be less likely in the UK, but certainly in the US, you get all kinds of stuff like that.
I've never seen eggs in curry here in Ireland either.
Very interesting indeed.... :-\
Cheers,
ast
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You should try jaggery (jaggery goor). It has a very intense flavour which is quite different to ordinary sugar, and as I suspect that all combinations of the other ingredients you mentioned are used in various BIR recipes you'll need to experiment to get the exact match for you.
Hi SS
I've seen Jaggery mentioned in many Pathia recipes, but never managed to get hold of any.
Have you actually tried it?
Where did you get it from?
What form is it in (solid block or prepared)
Most books say that dark brown sugar is the closest substitute.
Comments welcome please?
I'm not sure about using the honey option SS :-\ Although I do love honey, but it's normally on toast!
SnS ;D
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I get mine in a block from Tesco but all the local asian shops sell it as well. If you can't get it you can substitute palm sugar which is used in Thai recipes and is available from chinese shops and most supermarkets. Definitely worth a try as it adds a toffee-ish flavour that ordinary sugar doesn't give.
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Hi ast ;)
I'm not making it up lol :D Have you really never tried curried eggs? It does put the old wind-factor up a notch though(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/xx_dominatrix_xx/surrender.gif)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/xx_dominatrix_xx/lastscan.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/xx_dominatrix_xx/lastscan1.jpg)
BTW SnS you can get jaggery from spicesofindia if you can't find it locally ;) although I'd suggest the mango chutney every time lol :P
Apologies for hijacking the thread too :-[
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BTW SnS you can get jaggery from spicesofindia if you can't find it locally ;) although I'd suggest the mango chutney every time lol :P
Domi, I think I'd prefer your Mango's (option) to Secret Santa's honey pot - every time. ::)
ps: I did look at spice of india site the other day, but couldn't find it.
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Aaaahhhh, thanks for the visual, Domi. Now I get it.
To answer your question, no, I've never had curried eggs, but I've had curry over egg fried rice a few times by accident. I also like to make egg fried rice with other veg and pork and/or chicken if I'm really feeling adventurous.
The thing I noticed from your menu is that it's a "Balti Jalfrezi" rather than just a Jalfrezi. I would therefore think they're two different animals. I've never had a Balti at all, but I understand it's a rice dish, right? Therefore, it might make sense to have egg in it. Doesn't Nasi Goreng (sp?) come with egg too? That's a dish I enjoy, so I'm sure I'd like a "Balti Jalfrezi" too, but if I got one when I thought I was getting a vanilla, garden-variety Jalfrezi, I'd be *very* surprised! :o
Thanks for clearing up the mystery (at least for me, anyway! ;D)
Cheers,
ast
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I've never had a Balti at all, but I understand it's a rice dish, right?
No AST, it's distinctly a dish served WITHOUT rice (usually served only with naans): http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1764.0.html
Maybe you're confusing Balti with Biriani?
I remember a takeaway owner coming to me (this is in Cambridge Domi), all concerned, because his new chef was stirring an egg into his Kormas (towards the end of cooking). He wanted to know if I liked it (which I did). I got the impression it was a point of conflict between him and his new chef. I sometimes add an egg to my kormas now.
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Balti is a style of Indian cooking usually using Cast Iron woks called Baltis (or Karahi in Urdu). There is a lot of myth about the word Balti with the most common being that it means "Bucket" this is what the Hindi word Balti translates as but has been pretty much debunked as Balti cooking was brought to the UK by Kashmiri/Pakistani chefs/familes and there is no relation to the Hindi language - just a coincidence and misconception. Baltistan is an area of Kashmir which borders with China and that is where the Cast Iron wok type cooking was picked up.
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You should try jaggery (jaggery goor). It has a very intense flavour which is quite different to ordinary sugar, and as I suspect that all combinations of the other ingredients you mentioned are used in various BIR recipes you'll need to experiment to get the exact match for you.
Hi SS
I've seen Jaggery mentioned in many Pathia recipes, but never managed to get hold of any.
Have you actually tried it?
Where did you get it from?
What form is it in (solid block or prepared)
Most books say that dark brown sugar is the closest substitute.
Comments welcome please?
I'm not sure about using the honey option SS :-\ Although I do love honey, but it's normally on toast!
SnS ;D
Here ya go'
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2espicesofindia%2eco%2euk%2f&WD=jaggery&SHOP=%20&PN=Indian%2dFood%2dTRS%2dGoor%2dJaggery%2ehtml%23aGRO021#aGRO021 (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2espicesofindia%2eco%2euk%2f&WD=jaggery&SHOP=%20&PN=Indian%2dFood%2dTRS%2dGoor%2dJaggery%2ehtml%23aGRO021#aGRO021)
;D
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Thanks Jethro.
In the "Groceries" section ... of course, should've guessed.
Bit late for me now though as I've only just received an order from them and I'm bu**ered if I'm forking out 5 squid delivery charge for a bag of sugar.
I'll try Tesco's during the week.
Regards
SnS ;D
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Sorry ast, that was the only menu I could find, but all jalfrezis are made that way that I know of, it's not particular to just that takeaway, I've never been served a jalfrezi without egg ??? Whether it's in a back-street takeaway or big restaurants with award-winning chefs ???
Domi, I think I'd prefer your Mango's (option) to Secret Santa's honey pot - every time. ::)
pmsl....Secret Satan's honey pot...reminds me of a less than reputable adult site I came across the other day (or should I say stumbled across). :-[ :P
I remember a takeaway owner coming to me (this is in Cambridge Domi), all concerned, because his new chef was stirring an egg into his Kormas (towards the end of cooking). He wanted to know if I liked it (which I did). I got the impression it was a point of conflict between him and his new chef. I sometimes add an egg to my kormas now.
Maybe his new chef was from "oop north" CA? ;D
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No AST, it's distinctly a dish served WITHOUT rice (usually served only with naans): http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1764.0.html
Maybe you're confusing Balti with Biriani?
Interesting. Maybe I was. I have had a Biriani on a few occasions, but not for a while.
Ok, well. Thanks for the clarifications everyone. So much for that theory! ;D
Still, after all this, I'd like to try it. Who knows, I might even *like* it. :)
Cheers,
ast
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Jalfrezis as I know them have to be cooked using peas and beaten egg
Holy ****!
Is nothing sacred?
Why not just bung a couple of bangers and some fried bread into it as well and call it the "all day curry".
Seriously, whatever that monstrosity is, it ain't no jalfrezi.
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lol It is if you're in Yorkshire :P
Which leads me back to a point I've brought up before (I think it was in the North/South curry divide debate) which is that we're all looking for different versions of a certain named curry. A pathia needs mango chutney, jalfrezi needs egg etc etc to be what I'd term as authentic BIR since that's how jalfrezis and pathias are made in BIRs here. You could walk a whole street in Bradford and order the same curry from each and no two curries will look or taste exactly the same. :-\
I look for curries which suit my tastes and that of those around me. I noticed in another thread that curry meets are in the pipeline, I hope they take off because it would be interesting for a whole group to turn up and try the same menu cooked by the same chefs - I think it would set up some lively debates and give a more balanced view for the restaurant reviews sections.
Like I've said before SS, you can't knock it 'til you've tried it luv 8) ;)
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Like I've said before SS, you can't knock it 'til you've tried it luv 8) ;)
I was only joking, I've got nothing against eggs in curry. I was deadly serious about eggs not being in a jalfrezi though. Can't you ask them to rename it to a jalfreggsi or something so as not to offend us purists?
I bet you just "must" have pineapple chunks in your Dhansak too, eh?
Mango chutney in pathia, no problem with that at all. Me I use white wine vinegar, sugar and pineapple juice, but as far as I'm concerned any sweet and sour igredient combination is "authentic" BIR.
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hehe I don't like lentils so I've always given dhansaks the swerve :P
but I have had madras with spring onions and what looked like swede in it :-X rather I should say I once was served madras with spring onions and what looked like swede in it.....I never got past a taste of the sauce :-\ go figure! :P
I guess we'll have to all get fired up about what makes a perfect curry, whatever the name :o If I had sleeves I'd be rolling 'em up and getting set for a long drawn out war lol ;D
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Why not just bung a couple of bangers and some fried bread into it as well and call it the "all day curry".
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PMSL :)
now thats a curry i want to try! :D
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Don't laugh UB! You'll only encourage him :'( ;D
Didn't some daft bloke actually make bacon and egg korma amongst other full-English based dishes on Come Dine With Me? (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/xx_dominatrix_xx/stupid_2.gif)
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If you can't get it you can substitute palm sugar
Jaggery is palm sugar isn't it?
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If you can't get it you can substitute palm sugar
Jaggery is palm sugar isn't it?
Can be cane or palm sugar apparently:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaggery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaggery)
News to me too, I thought it was just palm sugar :)
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Either way the two have different flavours but are close enough to be interchangable.