Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Talk About Anything Other Than Curry => Topic started by: mr.mojorisin on April 06, 2013, 09:39 PM
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Anyone else totally FED UP with the constant bickering/baiting...
C'mon everybody...let's ALL pull in the one direction
Let's all come together and try our best to achieve good BIR fare
(just noticed that there are a couple of musical themes in the above....sorry...)
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+1
I don't much care whether the ebook appears or whether it lives up to the hype. What does bug me is the never ending backbiting taking up far too much forum space. Life's too short.
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Anyone else totally FED UP with the constant bickering/baiting...
C'mon everybody...let's ALL pull in the one direction
Let's all come together and try our best to achieve good BIR fare
(just noticed that there are a couple of musical themes in the above....sorry...)
+1
We don't get this over at our Homebrew forum (http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk) (and that has beer & drunk people)
Time people here stopped the willy waving, 'I know better than you' posts and contributed to the forum in a pleasant & sensible manner.
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Could not agree more with all the comments posted. Sick to the back teeth of the e book before I even see it. It's about time members focused on what the forum is about and achieving it instead of the constant bickering. I thought things would improve with the departure of one individual. But it seems as though others are trying to fill the void
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+1 from me too. People take stuff too seriously around here.
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Anyone else totally FED UP with the constant bickering/baiting...
It's something that flares up from time to time on the forum and until pro-active moderation is carried out it will remain so. In some ways it's a microcosm of society. Some people you connect with, others you don't. Some people are balanced, others seem to have an axe to grind. Fortunately most of the time, most of the people on the forum are respectful of others, even when they don't agree. Sometimes it goes beyond that which is a shame.
In the main I manage to not get drawn in though I have had my moments with a couple of individuals! ??? ::) :o
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Hi
Sadly the forum is getting railroaded for personal ends.
Regards
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Just have come home from a superb curry
And this is the best thread of the day
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Fed up? is an understatement! >:(
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Snap!
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In the main I manage to not get drawn in though I have had my moments with a couple of individuals! ??? ::) :o
It ain't just me then that has these moments ::)
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We need better moderation to knock this kind of thing on the head before it starts, Can't see it happening though. ::)
Les
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We need better moderation to knock this kind of thing on the head before it starts, Can't see it happening though. ::)
Les
It's not happened yet Les and for that reason I am inclined to agree with you. CA was probably the most active moderator but he gave it up. George has recently been a moderator (and still is I assume) who has undertaken to deal with the spam. Stew (admin), the owner of the site appoints moderators.
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In the main I manage to not get drawn in though I have had my moments with a couple of individuals! ??? ::) :o
;D ;D Yeah I remember "one difference of opinion" ::) ::)
CA was probably the most active moderator but he gave it up.
I thought it gave him up?? ::)
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In the main I manage to not get drawn in though I have had my moments with a couple of individuals! ??? ::) :o
;D ;D Yeah I remember "one difference of opinion" ::) ::)
Ha ha me too!!! :D
CA was probably the most active moderator but he gave it up.
I thought it gave him up?? ::)
I couldn't possibly comment... ::)
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I thought it gave him up?? ::)
Either way CH we need more mods or give George permission to step into these arguments and stop them before they start. Three warnings and your OUT. To who ever starts the bickering. :o
But I think Admin should step in a bit more than he does as well.
Les
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I completely agree with all of this and I am new here and was shocked to see the amount of bickering and trolling here. It doesn't set a good example to new members who could positively contribute to this forum. However we shouldn't stifle debate but there needs to be a line drawn.
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I thought it gave him up?? ::)
Either way CH we need more mods or give George permission to step into these arguments and stop them before they start.
Les
I wouldn't support that idea.
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I completely agree with all of this and I am new here and was shocked to see the amount of bickering and trolling here. It doesn't set a good example to new members who could positively contribute to this forum. However we shouldn't stifle debate but there needs to be a line drawn.
100% correct there. must be quite a shock for prospective new members viewing the boards and all they see is people arguing about nothing.....
Personally, I am fed up with logging in and seeing all the tosh that has been posted and very few constructive posts regarding curry
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100% correct there. must be quite a shock for prospective new members viewing the boards and all they see is people arguing about nothing.....
Personally, I am fed up with logging in and seeing all the tosh that has been posted and very few constructive posts regarding curry
It certainly does not paint the forum in a good light, does it. Re. moderation, i think we've already done this one to death as well. Most of those that have commented on the topic in the past are in favour of increased mods, but Admin for reasons known only to himself remains quiet on the subject. It was even sugested when the forum got its revamp, but alas was passed over. I saw nothing wrong with the way it was originally set up, providing the mods remain active members.
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It certainly does not paint the forum in a good light, does it. Re. moderation, i think we've already done this one to death as well. Most of those that have commented on the topic in the past are in favour of increased mods, but Admin for reasons known only to himself remains quiet on the subject. It was even sugested when the forum got its revamp, but alas was passed over. I saw nothing wrong with the way it was originally set up, providing the mods remain active members.
My thoughts exactly. Give it a few days and it will all die down, then sense will prevail for a while till the next argument starts.
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We need better moderation to knock this kind of thing on the head before it starts, Can't see it happening though. ::)
Les
It's not happened yet Les and for that reason I am inclined to agree with you. CA was probably the most active moderator but he gave it up. George has recently been a moderator (and still is I assume) who has undertaken to deal with the spam. Stew (admin), the owner of the site appoints moderators.
I hear what several people are saying as in 'we need better moderation'. On balance, I think I disagree, and here's why, as I've said before:
I agreed initially with Stew that I would only delete pure spam messages. My role was later extended to edit out four letter words and the worst insults.
CA executed the role by deleting whole blocks of posts, and taking a subjective view of what he found acceptable, and who he was most against. This got various peoples' backs up. I think any moderator gets into dangerous territory when they think they know best, on what's acceptable and what's not, so I don't want to adopt anything like that approach.
I therefore suggest that 'better moderation' would actually be far worse. For a start, I'd probably delete this whole thread. How can that be desirable, if people want to enter into a debate about any topic which interests them?
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I hear what several people are saying as in 'we need better moderation'. On balance, I think I disagree, and here's why, as I've said before:
I agreed initially with Stew that I would only delete pure spam messages. My role was later extended to edit out four letter words and the worst insults.
CA executed the role by deleting whole blocks of posts, and taking a subjective view of what he found acceptable, and who he was most against. This got various peoples' backs up. I think any moderator gets into dangerous territory when they think they know best, on what's acceptable and what's not, so I don't want to adopt anything like that approach.
I therefore suggest that 'better moderation' would actually be far worse. For a start, I'd probably delete this whole thread. How can that be desirable, if people want to enter into a debate about any topic which interests them?
George, I don't think we need better moderation, I think we need better self-control. But nor do I think that your closing remark reflects reality (or what should be reality) -- why would you delete this thread, when everyone participating it is being objective and polite ? I would certainly have no objections to your deleting virtually everything after the opening post in 'Can "posts" be relied upon (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11800#top)', since it almost immediately went off-topic and the subsequent contributions had no relevance to "Forum Administration" whatsoever, but this thread is arguably in the correct place and has been conducted with politeness and respect : on what basis do you believe that you would be justified in deleting it ?
As regards the actions of a former moderator, I am not sure why you adduce this as evidence. It is clear that you can see that his moderation left something to be desired, so if you and Stew were to agree that you could adopt a more pro-active role in moderating, could you not also ensure that you avoid the errors of your predecessor ?
** Phil.
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I can see your point George but I've seen posts recently which are designed to deliberately enflame bad feeling and damages the integrity of the forum. We are all adults with a common interest and should be pulling in the same direction for the benefit of everyone involved. Some of the behaviour borders on bullying and harassment, surely this should be stopped?
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Totally Agree CK
Les
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With respect George your comments demonstrate that this forum is indeed, in need of additional moderators that will 'moderate'. We all respect your decision not to undertake this task and appreciate your efforts as to deleting spam and offensive material.
The forum needs additional moderators that will edit/close/delete topics with an unbiased opinion. I would suggest at least 3 in all so that you can all action, support and discuss matters in private, as they become apparent.
The problem this forum has had over the recent years is that it has been left to one person, which is alot for any individual to handle, especially when Stew isn't always around.
But it's been this way ever since i've been here. :-\
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But it's been this way ever since i've been here. :-\
And not about to change anytime soon I fear
OK so back to the bickering then :)
Les
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Would a Poll help
To help the admin listen More mods or not :-\
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With respect George your comments demonstrate that this forum is indeed, in need of additional moderators that will 'moderate'. We all respect your decision not to undertake this task and appreciate your efforts as to deleting spam and offensive material.
The forum needs additional moderators that will edit/close/delete topics with an unbiased opinion. I would suggest at least 3 in all so that you can all action, support and discuss matters in private, as they become apparent.
The problem this forum has had over the recent years is that it has been left to one person, which is alot for any individual to handle, especially when Stew isn't always around.
But it's been this way ever since i've been here.
I'm not saying I'm incapable of more aggressive or 'stricter' moderating. I just see it as non-desirable, whether I do it, or anyone else does. As Phil says, everyone needs more self-control, respect, or whatever. Everyone will have different ideas on what should be moderated. To bring in some kind of sheriff and his deputies to clean up the forum would be a disaster.
Neither is it too much for me to handle because I'm not checking every single word - what a thankless task that would be.
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Of the half dozen or so forums I visit, this is the only one without effective moderation.
I can't think of many who support George's view that it is not needed. The recent spate of inappropriate (IMO) and unnecessary posts surely prove that we do need effective moderation, as the community isn't capable of policing itself.
Has Admin Stew ever commented on the matter? He seemed to become a little more active a few weeks back but can't say I've heard much from him since.
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Personal attacks and baiting need nipping in the bud as soon as they start, if a user wants to argue with another user then they can do it through pm's
I do think that this forum needs to look at its T&C's, re write a few and enforce it when its broken, as it is all we see is petty arguments and edited posts with no real deterent to adhere to a firm but fair policy.
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We've had many such discussions in the past and to be honest nothing ever changes. Everyone can air their views but when it comes down to it, only one person's opinion matters - our enigmatic Mr Admin. This site has survived a long time but it might be interesting to speculate whether that was through efficient administration or simply lack of effective competition. That of course may change in the future.
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Of the half dozen or so forums I visit, this is the only one without effective moderation.
Your view of "effective moderation" is likely to be different to everyone else's, so that's why I'm not in favour.
If you prefer a 'police state' type environment, then perhaps you may see other forums as better. I don't.
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I'm not saying I'm incapable of more aggressive or 'stricter' moderating. I just see it as non-desirable, whether I do it, or anyone else does. As Phil says, everyone needs more self-control, respect, or whatever. Everyone will have different ideas on what should be moderated. To bring in some kind of sheriff and his deputies to clean up the forum would be a disaster.
Neither is it too much for me to handle because I'm not checking every single word - what a thankless task that would be.
I am not suggesting you are incapable George, nor am I trying to slur you in anyway on the contrary, I thank you for the efforts that you make. I also respect your opinion but simply disagree. It would be a happy world if everyone had more self control, respect, or whatever, but it will never be so.
Being a moderator is a thankless task but it is an essential position to keeping order on a forum. We don't need a maverick or a janitor to clean up the forum, just someone that is prepared to help prevent the forum getting messy in the first place.
Of course, there might not be that much to read, if all the bickering is deleted. ::) :P ;)
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Sadly the bickering gets in the way of where we want to be; cooking great BIR style curries. Many threads I have read that are close to solving a particular problem usually get hijacked by individuals with personal vendettas therefore pi$$ing everyone off to the extent that the thread dies a death.
The mods really need to get a grip on this.
Cheers,
Ken
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Of the half dozen or so forums I visit, this is the only one without effective moderation.
Your view of "effective moderation" is likely to be different to everyone else's, so that's why I'm not in favour.
If you prefer a 'police state' type environment, then perhaps you may see other forums as better. I don't.
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George, it not about a 'poiice state' and i'm all for freedom of speach but if the behaviour is damaging to the overall aims and reputation of the site and upsetting people, then there needs a be a firm hand.
I am an administrator and moderator for a forum and it is absolutely essential to keep on top of internet bullies and yes it is up to admin discression but should be written in stone in the T&C's so that everyone knows what to expect. Unfortunately I have had to ban some people after a number of warnings. Some people deliberately go out of their way to manipulate other peoples feelings and they get a kick out of it and if they're consistantly disruptive then they should go. Is this not a social forum? if so what is being done about anti-social behaviour? With the greatest respect, you're philosophy seems to be just to let it go. You can't have a civil society without certain rules and regulations in order to maintain and uphold civil behaviour for the benefit of the majority and unfortunately some people are not behaving in a civil way. Its not a police state to do this, its just common sense
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Could not agree more with all the comments posted. Sick to the back teeth of the e book before I even see it. It's about time members focused on what the forum is about and achieving it instead of the constant bickering. I thought things would improve with the departure of one individual. But it seems as though others are trying to fill the void
Which individual CH?
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With the greatest respect, you're philosophy seems to be just to let it go. You can't have a civil society without certain rules and regulations in order to maintain and uphold civil behaviour for the benefit of the majority and unfortunately some people are not behaving in a civil way. Its not a police state to do this, its just common sense
It's not within my present mandate to moderate anything beyond spam, swear words and the very worst insults. You get into a very subjective area once you try and decide who and what to censor beyond that. I see such moderation as worse than letting it go. I hate forums which are over-moderated.
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Geo...your thoughts please on why exactly you would delete this whole thread....utterly bemusing.
Is this "head in the sand" syndrome.
as far as I am aware most decent members are FED UP with the constant bickering/posting tosh/baiting (delete as appropriate) hence the title of said thread.
If your idea of moderation is deleting a thread whereby most members would agree on its content ...then the game is up for us all, sadly.....
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It's not within my present mandate to moderate anything beyond spam, swear words and the very worst insults. You get into a very subjective area once you try and decide who and what to censor beyond that. I see such moderation as worse than letting it go. I hate forums which are over-moderated.
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If its not within your present mandate and you're not willing to stick your neck out to prevent such anti social behaviour, then whose job is it as verbal and mental abuse goes beyond swear words and the very worst insults.
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You get into a very subjective area once you try and decide who and what to censor beyond that. I see such moderation as worse than letting it go. I hate forums which are over-moderated.
I couldn't agree more George but you're fighting a losing battle (if it's a fight at all). Let's hope Stew keeps the forum as open as it has been since the start - it's one of its main strengths.
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Geo...your thoughts please on why exactly you would delete this whole thread....utterly bemusing.
I fear you may be reading too much into my comment about deleting this entire thread.
My main point is that I don't want to delete anything beyond the three specific areas I mentioned before. I just used this thread as an example, and it goes to show that we'd never all agree, which is why it's a very bad idea, in my opinion.
I like the idea in principle of 'nipping issues in the bud' as mentioned by someone earlier. But it's probably easier said than done on this forum. So, for anyone who'd like much stricter moderation, please give specific examples of recent threads where you'd have stepped in to 'nip' some aspect in the bud. Trouble must start somewhere. Which specific post would you have modified or deleted, and why? Let's see how many of us agree.
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Personally I think we all need to take a deep breath, count to ten (or one hundred) and remember or maybe adopt the attitude that we are all guests on Stew (the owner's) forum. He has given us and allowed us to use this fantastic site to discuss and share experiences regarding BIR cooking and that being a guest and participating in the forum (if you wish to) is a privilege that he has allowed us and therefore we should show him, his forum and other users respect and behave accordingly.
Friendly ribbing and a bit of banter is good, and I'm all for intelligent debate as it helps members feel part of a community pulling together towards the same goal. I also feel in, my opinion, the key to effective forum moderation is the laissez-faire approach and editing posts or accounts should be used as a last resort.
However, some are under the misapprehension or they have the erroneous belief that they're entitled to unbridled free speech and this often leads to inappropriate behaviour, arguments (not intelligent debates) and can subject other forum users to personal attacks and this needs to be addressed!!! It is disruptive to the other users and distracts from what the main objective is, it's on-line bullying and it's disrespectful to Stew and other users!
We all need to show each other some common courtesy and take other people's feelings into consideration before posting comments that might be hurtful, derogatory, disrespectful, or just blatantly argumentative.
I'm not going to get involved in stating posts as examples as I am not a moderator and might start another heated discussion or be considered antagonistic, but these are some examples what I think qualifies as personal attacks (some might disagree).
Insulting another member
Belittling another member
Ridiculing another member
Derogatory comments to another member
Vulgar, obscene, or otherwise objectionable comments to another member
Questioning in an insincere manner
Deliberately annoying or irritating another member
Just my tuppence worth and the end of it for me. :'(
Regards
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Personally I think we all need to take a deep breath, count to ten (or one hundred) and remember or maybe adopt the attitude that we are all guests on Stew (the owner's) forum. He has given us and allowed us to use this fantastic site to discuss and share experiences regarding BIR cooking and that being a guest and participating in the forum (if you wish to) is a privilege that he has allowed us and therefore we should show him, his forum and other users respect and behave accordingly.
Friendly ribbing and a bit of banter is good, and I'm all for intelligent debate as it helps members feel part of a community pulling together towards the same goal. I also feel in, my opinion, the key to effective forum moderation is the laissez-faire approach and editing posts or accounts should be used as a last resort.
However, some are under the misapprehension or they have the erroneous belief that they're entitled to unbridled free speech and this often leads to inappropriate behaviour, arguments (not intelligent debates) and can subject other forum users to personal attacks and this needs to be addressed!!! It is disruptive to the other users and distracts from what the main objective is, it's on-line bullying and it's disrespectful to Stew and other users!
We all need to show each other some common courtesy and take other people's feelings into consideration before posting comments that might be hurtful, derogatory, disrespectful, or just blatantly argumentative.
I'm not going to get involved in stating posts as examples as I am not a moderator and might start another heated discussion or be considered antagonistic, but these are some examples what I think qualifies as personal attacks (some might disagree).
Insulting another member
Belittling another member
Ridiculing another member
Derogatory comments to another member
Vulgar, obscene, or otherwise objectionable comments to another member
Questioning in an insincere manner
Deliberately annoying or irritating another member
Just my tuppence worth and the end of it for me. :'(
Regards
Rallim, I can't see many members disagreeing with your comments and observations. I think you've summed it up quite succinctly.
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However, some are under the misapprehension or they have the erroneous belief that they're entitled to unbridled free speech and this often leads to inappropriate behaviour, arguments (not intelligent debates) and can subject other forum users to personal attacks and this needs to be addressed!!! It is disruptive to the other users and distracts from what the main objective is, it's on-line bullying and it's disrespectful to Stew and other users!
To put the other side of the argument I'll repost what I wrote in another thread:
"There's a whole cadre of people on this forum who want to shut down any negativity, even the constructive kind. They want to turn the forum into a big curry group-hug. It sickens me frankly and goes against any notion of free speech. There are plenty of other forums that will pander to their liberal-lefty stance so why don't they avail themselves of those forums and leave this one with its major strength, i.e. that of minimal moderation."
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This forum really is a mystery to me: There's a mod but he doesn't want to be mod (IMHO) because he feels that would be "policing" users and/or inhibit "free speech". Then there's an owner who set up (too lenient) forum guidelines but doesn't enforce them. Nor does the Mod enforce those for whatever reason. Then there are users who behave worse than at a footbal match with their rivals and there are people with egos as big as a skyscraper. But nothing is being done to make all these individuals work together instead of against each other.
Sorry, George, but this exactly is the role of a moderator (he "moderates") - at least in every other community I visit... (and I don't feel "policed" in either of them). You (as a Mod) do not need to "police" users but instead step in and give a quick "back on topic, gentlemen" or "I've deleted some replies that were off-topic and not constructive to finding the secrets of BIR - feel free to creare an extra thread in a different sub-section to discuss these matters". I'd rather have one of my own off-topic replies deleted instead of seeing bickering in every single thread I open lately. It is VERY tiring and it even goes as far as making people who signed up long ago but never posted before join in on this discussion (or just leave the forum).
All this should show you one thing: This forum is an excellent place for curry lovers and we love this place but the people that make up the community are not happy with the way things are going at all! None of them are! And: most want moderation but it isn't happening. So, please reconsider your own stance on this topic, or - alternatively - consider stepping down as Moderator and let someone do it who is not worried about "free speech" as much.
Please don't take this personally, George, but in your role as "mod". I fully understand your personal reasoning. IN MY OPINION, however, this is not the way to handle a community. I would like you to reflect for yourself whether your (non-)actions are really for the benefit of this community after all.
To close this monologue: Personally, I'm fairly glad that true "free speech" only exists in designated areas of our world (say, "Speaker's Corner"). I'm glad no Neonazi is allowed to rummage my home streets shouting old Nazi-Songs, denying any concentration camps, insulting non-blonde girls and all that other crap all in the name of "free speech". Rules were created to prevent this sort of thing while still allowing one to say one's mind about other things (in **moderation**). I like these rules, am I against "freedom" now ?
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I like these rules, am I against "freedom" now ?
Yes you are. And you're just the sort of down-at-heel lapdog that dictators drool over.
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Aha, because I am of a different opinion than you? And how come the restricted "free speech" implemented in Germany is based on propositions made by Brits? And how come there's a speaker's corner if "free speech" is implemented everywhere in the UK? The UK does not have "free speech" per se - why should this forum do?
I think you live in an ideological dream world.
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Please see :
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11811 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11811)
and vote (discussion also welcomed).
** Phil.
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Aha, because I am of a different opinion than you? And how come the restricted "free speech" implemented in Germany is based on propositions made by Brits? And how come there's a speaker's corner if "free speech" is implemented everywhere in the UK? The UK does not have "free speech" per se - why should this forum do?
I think you live in an ideological dream world.
What you fail to appreciate is that in your new, prissy, Utopianly-moderated forum, the above response wouldn't see the light of day. Well, it would, for the few minutes it would take for a mod to spot it and delete it.
Be careful of what you wish for, you may just get it!
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Aha, because I am of a different opinion than you? And how come the restricted "free speech" implemented in Germany is based on propositions made by Brits? And how come there's a speaker's corner if "free speech" is implemented everywhere in the UK? The UK does not have "free speech" per se - why should this forum do?
I think you live in an ideological dream world.
What you fail to appreciate is that in your new, prissy, Utopianly-moderated forum, the above response wouldn't see the light of day. Well, it would, for the few minutes it would take for a mod to spot it and delete it.
Be careful of what you wish for, you may just get it!
I fear you only see Black & White - no nuances of grey inbetween. I don't want a totalitarian forum, I want a moderated one. One, where personal attacks get deleted but where constructive criticism remains. Yes, there's a fine line to draw and it's hard to do. I'll admit that. There's no need for you to get personal, btw.
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There's no need for you to get personal, btw.
I'm not getting personal. That's you putting your own slant on what I'm saying and is a clear illustration of why you (wrongly) appear to believe moderation is a necessity.
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I like these rules, am I against "freedom" now ?
Yes you are. And you're just the sort of down-at-heel lapdog that dictators drool over.
Q.E.D.
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Insulting another member
Belittling another member
Ridiculing another member
Derogatory comments to another member
Vulgar, obscene, or otherwise objectionable comments to another member
Questioning in an insincere manner
Deliberately annoying or irritating another member
Just my tuppence worth and the end of it for me. :'(
Rallim, I can't see many members disagreeing with your comments and observations. I think you've summed it up quite succinctly.
Yes, few people would disagree with the sentiments behind that list but drafting a list is only the start of the beginning in terms of moderation. Implementation and how it's executed in practice is a hundred times more difficult and likely to upset a lot of people, like happened before. If you'd been 'persecuted' like SS and me, a couple of years ago, then perhaps you'd understand.
EXAMPLE
Someone comes along and mentions a product they hope to launch.
One group of members express great hope and say they're almost certain to buy it.
It's all positive so far.
Then one or more 'wise owls' come along and express doubt.
Should those posts be deleted to 'nip problems in the bud? Yes, they could be seen as negative comments but they may well be right. Only time will tell. As long as vulgar words are avoided, I see it all as acceptable free speech and don't want to delete anything.
It would be a minefield to moderate, as if the moderator knows best (which he doesn't) and it's where previous moderators have gone wrong, and why certain other forums are such awful places.
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Very reasonable response, George. But what about those incidents where UK law demands action? Please read the 'free speech' article on Wikipedia and the restrictions for the UK in particular to see what I mean.
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I like these rules, am I against "freedom" now ?
Yes you are. And you're just the sort of down-at-heel lapdog that dictators drool over.
Q.E.D.
So you take the view that an attack on your views is a direct attack on you? That's unfortunate (for you).
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SS - "Yes you are. And you're just the sort of down-at-heel lapdog that dictators drool over."
That sounds pretty insulting to me!
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SS - "Yes you are. And you're just the sort of down-at-heel lapdog that dictators drool over."
That sounds pretty insulting to me!
Read the post that that was in response to. It was just a statement of fact.
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I like these rules, am I against "freedom" now ?
Yes you are. And you're just the sort of down-at-heel lapdog that dictators drool over.
Q.E.D.
So you take the view that an attack on your views is a direct attack on you? That's unfortunate (for you).
No, Santa, because the message did /not/ attack anyone's views. It attacked the addressee personally : " You are just the sort of down-at-heel lapdog that dictators drool over". That is an attack on a person, not an attack on any views that he or she might hold. It is no different to (say) "You are just the sort of pervert that would drool over images of naked children" or any similar statement. If you want to attack the views, then you need to separate them from the individual, as in (for example) "In my opinion, anyone holding such views is just the sort of down-at-heel lapdog over whom dictators drool" -- that clarifies that it is the /views/ that are at the root of your position, not the individual who might (or might not) hold such views.
** Phil.
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I just love these threads. They could go on indefinitely with all the people who are claiming this is the sort of thing that should be curtailed actively joining in. You couldn't make it up! ;D
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If I was a suspicious person, I'd be convinced that 'some' of the 'posters' on this site are the same person trying to up the hit rate for the site.
Anyway its a good place to while away my coffee break since I'm a big fan of surreal comedy.
There are some good recipes too, once in a while someone even cooks something.
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SS, unfortunately I'm not sufficiently proficient in English enough to give this statement of yours the reply it truly deserves, but when your reply to me explicitly includes the word "you" then it is directed at me directly indeed and I take that personal.
If that reply is then also, completely unnecessarily, worded in such a way as to provoke someone I take it even more personal. I will go so far as to claim that people whose mother-tongue is English would take it the same way. I'm confident enough about my secondary language skills for that matter. But correct me if you please.
At the risk of getting personal myself I will still say this:
I now understand that there was some trouble with mods over control/power in this forum way before I joined (I had to go digging deep in the archives for that). I also see how people who were involved 'back then' could get enraged about anything that appears to follow a similar pattern from then on, too. However, at the same time it appears that you are now somewhat bitter inside and are what I will call 'overly-protective' and critical for lack of knowing better english words. That may be why your replies are sometimes extremely blunt and negative - especially lately. However, reactions sich as yours and some other members are a problem. Let me explain.
Scenario:
Imagine a newbie (1 Post) coming on the forum claiming 'I FOUND THE SECRET' (totally made-up example, haha) and you find out there's really nothing new and/or there are even some truly odd ingredients involved, even. You will immediately claim 'bullshit' - we've seen it all before. And, in a way, probably most rightly so! But then again - this is a new member to this community who, possibly, could become a great contributor later on. Even if not, the point of a community is to exchange ideas and grow collectively. It is possible to welcome such a member, thank for the recipe and then point out the similarities and invite the newbie to dig deeper as we provide much more info on this forum and don't see the secret he claims to have found. But that's not the way it works here.
Instead, HE got burned the way I understand you got burned before?! Now, is he willing to risk to be ridiculed again by posting something else (heaven forbid - REVISED instructions) after seeing those words as one of his first replies to a recipe he/she posted?! Likely not. He will likely try and find a 'friendlier' place instead (and no, I don't like RCR).
What about other (hypothetical) people who happened to read the same recipe posted by Newbie and noticed there was an error because they spied on their local TA doing something? Will that person post the correction? I would think a good percentage of individuals would fear to be ridiculed, too. Now what if that tiny detail actually turned out the be the famed "missing 5%"? What if that person held the key to your quest of the perfect Old-School BIR curries in a seemingly minute detail and is now too 'scared' to say anything? That would be unfortunate, I guess?!
By now most members here probably realize that you don't like Patak's pastes (or any pastes for that matter), h4ppy-chris' attitude, or any 'modern' techniques for that matter as you are on your own little special 70's/80's BIR quest. What I don't understand is why you don't simply stay out of these discussions if they make you so mad yet don't contribute to your quest. You appear to be keen to 'help' others understand where they are going 'wrong' and likely truly believe you prevent them from making the big mistake to fall for the 'secrets' lie of yet another author. But do these people really appreciate your help? Especially if they are new to the game? And in which ways do you (and others) point out these mistakes to the Unknowing?
This is the point where forum etiquette comes into the equation. Simple forum etiquette says to be civil as a start. Lately there have been some heated debates but that doesn't mean it's OK to personally insult people (btw - none of this is directed specifically at you anymore) and a whole lot of other things that rallim summed up nicely. And forum etiquette does not automatically prohibit free speech. However, if people are unable the attain proper etiquette then a mod needs to step in and fix things.
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(snipped)
Well said, StoneCut : I completely agree.
** Phil.
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They could go on indefinitely with all the people who are claiming this is the sort of thing that should be curtailed actively joining in. You couldn't make it up!
I agree. It is a rather amusing irony.