Topic: "A refined methodology for the stepwise refinement of BIR technique"

[Peripatetic Phil]

First of all, apologies for, and a word of explanation about, the unbelievably pretentious title : it was, of course, written very much tongue-in-cheek, but is in fact almost a exact copy (modulo the last two words) of the title of the first ever scientific paper I was invited to read, written by a good friend with whom I shared an office (and who had better remain nameless, but he will recognise himself if ever he reads this).

Anyhow, what is this pretentious nonsense all about ?  Well, as those of you who have been following the "Curry made from curry powder" thread, Cory Ander has raised the issue of what exactly we mean by "technique". Is it something that we each have to acquire for ourselves, or is it something that can easily be communicated through the written word, in forums such as this ?  My gut instinct is that it is a little of each -- we can attempt to communicate it, but unless others try it for themselves and the vast majority report that it results in a discernible improvement, then we are probably either mistaken in our beliefs or we are communicating our technique poorly.

So what I want to propose is that we do something in the way of the existing CR Group Tests, but much simplified (which will also have the benefit of making them far less onerous).  My idea is as follows.  Suppose (for example) we want to test the validity of the assertion that warming the base before adding it to the curry makes a discernible improvement in the quality (if it is not discernible, then it is almost certainly not worthwhile).  So for this test, each participant will prepare two portions at the same time : one portion using cold base, one warmed to the point of a gentle simmer.  Ideally, this test will be done where there are two or more people who can assess the results.  All present should try each dish in turn, perhaps alternating between them, until either they are sure they can detect a difference, or they are sure that they cannot -- either outcome is equally satisfactory.  If this can be done "blind" (i.e., without knowing which dish is which), so much the better, but we don't need to go overboard about this : we are talking cookery, not pharmacology, here.  And, also ideally, about half of each portion is put away in the 'fridge, and the test repeated the next night.  Finally the results are sent in, and someone (I will volunteer if the idea is sufficiently popular for it to take off) does a statistical analysis and reports back on the outcome.  And, a few weeks later, we test a different hypothesis in the same manner, making exactly one change between the way the two portions are prepared.

What do you think, chaps : ridiculously pretentious, and a complete waste of time, or something from which we might all learn something useful ?

** Phil.

[curryhell]

In spite of the eloquent title of the thread  , anything that engages other members to explore, test and experiment has to be a move in the right direction.  Anything that gets member to take part, interact and share results on a specific topic (whatever that might be) again can only be positive.  Who knows what may come out of this?  The forum has been awfully quiet of late and needs a new impetus to stir things up again ;D.  Who knows what could happen.  I'd be up for it Phil.

[Ramirez]

Nice post Phil. 

I think, as curryhell says, anything that helps elucidate BIR cooking has to be worth exploring. I suppose my only concern is how much it will really help clarify techniques/myths/beliefs. Say, for example, we are testing hot/cold base, there is a danger that this might not make as big a difference as it should purely because other areas of our technique/method are not correct. If you asked a BIR chef to do the same test, the difference could be far more discernable because their technique/method is sound and every other element of the dish is well executed, if that makes sense (?).

I suppose there is no real way of knowing this until we actually do it. I think it might be worth formulating a list of things that can be tried (hot/cold base, cooking at high/low temps, using much/little oil, etc).

[Peripatetic Phil]

I suppose my only concern is how much it will really help clarify techniques/myths/beliefs. Say, for example, we are testing hot/cold base, there is a danger that this might not make as big a difference as it should purely because other areas of our technique/method are not correct. If you asked a BIR chef to do the same test, the difference could be far more discernible because their technique/method is sound and every other element of the dish is well executed, if that makes sense (?).

Perfect sense -- what it means, in a statistical sense, is that "temperature of base" is not a fully independent variable; it may make no discernible difference if (e.g.,) you normally cook everything at a fairly low temperature (as I do, to avoid splashing, and complaints from SWMBO), and may make a world of difference if you have the luxury of a curry shed and an 8Kw burner.  There will be a lot of variables we /can't/ control (exact cooking temperature being one of them, others including thermal inertia of cooking vessel and so on), but we /may/ learn something from the exercise.  And if after, say, half a dozen tests, not one has proved conclusive, then either we are on completely the wrong track or our "refined methodology" (!) isn't as refined as we thought and the whole thing needs a radical re-think ...

I suppose there is no real way of knowing this until we actually do it. I think it might be worth formulating a list of things that can be tried (hot/cold base, cooking at high/low temps, using much/little oil, etc).

Agreed.  And I also have in mind the idea that we might do something for ingredients as well as technique, changing just one at a time.
** Phil.

[parker21]

hi phil i understand where you are coming from mate, but if you are trying to emulate what a bir does then they warm their base as we all know (only because of the necessity of speed). so when in rome.....! a bir chef uses his senses of smell and then later sight lol. the smell of the garlic, garlic/ginger paste/puree... then with the addition of spices ( mixed powder and chilli powder and or methi leaves( regional) ) and tomato puree cook until the aromas of the spices also foaming of the spices and tom puree a visual sign that they are cooking the rawness out ( a toffee like smell- from the mouth of bir chef) then addition of warm base then addition of lemon juice/ vinegar if the recipe calls for it madras/ vindaloo/ pathia then and  additional ingredients such as coconut/tomatoes/ green peppers/onion/ fresh chillies/garam masala, potatoes, coriander stalks/leaves, butter ghee, more base cook to consistency and colour is acheived and garnished with coriander. you may have noticed that i have not put in a main ingredient this is flexiblie imo as i have seen chefs add at different stages 1 before the base went in and 1 after base sauce went in. this is my method and the method which i have witnessed in bir kitchens i have been in.


i have been known to use my base straight from the fridge with no discernible difference it just takes a liitle longer to cook the curry. please bear in mind that i cook a curry 6 times a week for myself and have been for a number of years now.

kind regards
gary

ps pls do not take this the wrong way LOL! 

[PaulP]

Assuming that most of us fry garlic/ginger as the first step, how many people fry until it goes brown?

I normally chicken out before it goes brown! 

Cheers,

Paul

[Stephen Lindsay]

Phil as ever your posts are thought provoking and positive. I'd be up for giving this a go too.

[chewytikka]

Hi **Phil
I'd go for the complete waste of time option.
BIR/TAs don't cook with cold base. end of.

Also thinking of all the hard work some members must have put into the CTM group test with a conclusion still pending after all this time.

On technique. its Bhun from the word Bhunao which leads to the menu and Bhuna Dishes,
which people might know are semi dry with a thickened sauce clinging to the meat or whatever the main event is.

Just like your favourite "Madras" is not Bhunned, as it is a saucy curry
A different technique, where tarka and high heat play their role.
Both technique's are shown in the video recipes I've had much fun making and posting on cr0.
cheers Chewy

[Peripatetic Phil]

I'd go for the complete waste of time option.  BIR/TAs don't cook with cold base. end of.

Thank you, CT : it is always helpful to have an alternative perspective.

On technique. its Bhun from the word Bhunao which leads to the menu and Bhuna Dishes...

I'm not quite sure what point you are making here : is this a comment on my spelling "Bhoon", or on whether the technique described as "bhooning"/"bhuning"/<whatever> is the correct term to use when describing the gentle frying of ingredients such as spices?  If it is the transliteration, then I don't think that there is only one way to "correctly" transcribe Urdu words, and both "bhooning" and in "bhuning" are in common usage  -- I simply chose "bhooning" as being better indicative of the sound.  As to the technique, there are many descriptions to be found of "bhooning the spices" (or "bhuning the spices", if you prefer) for a wide variety of dishes, by no means confined to those ultimately called "bhuna" or "bhoona", so it may just be that over this point we will have to differ.

** Phil.

[Les]

Way back in the 60's/70s where fresh Garlic and fresh Ginger easy to get hold of?
For myself, I can't really say that I seen much of it about, (that doesn't mean to say it wasn't) as I lived out in the sticks ;D

HS
PS
Or did they use Ginger powder