Topic: CA's Curry Base (aka "gravy"/"sauce")

[Clive77]

When you say tomato paste, are we talking concentrate or straight tom paste.

Hi Clive77,

Double (or triple) concentrated tomato paste.

Thanks for the quick answer. As planned I made a batch of this yesterday and tried it out on a Vindaloo...quite honestly it was blinkin' fabulous, the best curry I've EVER made (and I'm not just saying that...). This base is definitely better than the one I've been using. Despite being quite similar in it's constitution, it's the proportions that are just spot on. I'll certainly be using this one as from now on and am really looking forward to trying it out on other curries. Thanks a mill' for this excellent recipe CA.

[Peripatetic Phil]

Here is my curry base that I currently use.  It is the result of many years of me attempting to replicate BIR curries.  I have tried countless other recipes, countless alternative ingredients, countless alternative methods, etc, but, until someone comes up with a major breakthrough (and I feel sure there must be one!), it is the best I can currently accomplish. It makes about 2.3 litres of curry base, which is sufficient for about 9 single portion curries.

Well, I finally got around to trying CA's base this weekend.  Made it exactly to spec., with no variations.  I then used it to make a second goat curry (Madras strength) as per my "Recipe refinement : an alternative approach" thread.  Overall comments :

• The base is oiler than KD's, and this should borne in mind when deciding how much oil to use in the final dish
• I am unconvinced of the merits of adding
  
  
  • 1 heaped tsp curry powder (any decent mild or medium one will do)
  • 3 heaped tsp spice mix
  
  just five minutes before the end of cooking.
  

It is the last point that concerns me most.  When I tasted the cooled and blended base sauce, there was a distinct flavour of raw curry powder which I found disconcerting, but I reassured myself that this would disappear during the preparation of the final dish.  Sadly it did not.  Despite the very long slow cooking of the goat, the final curry had a definite aroma of raw curry powder, and whilst all those to whom I served it at a family barbecue pronounced it "very good indeed" (including Chef Thai, owner/head-chef of a family-owned oriental restaurant in Islington. and himself the creator of an extremely good beef curry : no. 45 on the menu), I was personally unhappy with the smell, which took me back (mentally) to the bad old days of British curries, when the average housewife would simply add raw curry powder to a casserole recipe and then serve it as a curry.

So, I am more than happy to try the base again, but on the next occasion I will be bhooning the spices, either separately or at the very beginning of the process (in the latter case they would then receive a full 60 minutes of cooking plus the bhooning time and not the 5-minutes no-bhooning of CA's original recipe). 

I have five portions of the base remaining, and tonight I will be attempting CA's Chicken Madras which has received such rave reviews.

** Phil.

[Cory Ander]

This Base is awesome!!! ...did a Madra's with the same base and WOW WOW WOW It was perfect

Brilliant krs, glad you enjoyed the curries that you made from it! 

I made a batch of this yesterday and tried it out on a Vindaloo...quite honestly it was blinkin' fabulous, the best curry I've EVER made (and I'm not just saying that...). This base is definitely better than the one I've been using. Despite being quite similar in it's constitution, it's the proportions that are just spot on

Hi Clive, glad that you enjoyed the base and your subsequent curries!  ;D

there was a distinct flavour of raw curry powder....the final curry had a definite aroma of raw curry powder....I was personally unhappy with the smell, which took me back (mentally) to the bad old days of British curries, when the average housewife would simply add raw curry powder to a casserole recipe and then serve it as a curry

Sorry to hear that you were disappointed, Phil, and that your findings were so different from others' (again).

I cannot really explain your findings.  I don't really understand why you found "the distinct flavour (and smell) of raw curry powder".  I've never found this.  I've tried many, many, variations (including frying the spices) and have found this method to be the best (to preserve flavours, freshness, etc).

You are anyway frying the spices (and the curry base) when you subsequently prepare your final curries, aren't you?  Or perhaps you're still adding spices to cold oil..... :-X

Again, perhaps your findings reflect your different experiences, different expectations, different methods and/or different cooking abilities....or something else.

Thanks for trying it, and reporting your findings, anyway! 

[SteveAUS]

Thats interesting Phil. I made this on Saturday to the letter but didnt notice a raw curry flavour. It was delicious (admittedly it was my first base that ive made). Even my mother-in-law who nearly faints at even the mention of anything to do with spice had a whiff after id blended it and said it smelt very nice. Ended up with only 2 litres as my 2 year old had one spoon full and then wouldnt give up so I gave him a little bowl full! Unfortunately by the time I was ready to make CAs vindaloo I was three sheets to the wind and was in no way fit to make it  :
Cheers
Steve

[Peripatetic Phil]

there was a distinct flavour of raw curry powder....the final curry had a definite aroma of raw curry powder....I was personally unhappy with the smell, which took me back (mentally) to the bad old days of British curries, when the average housewife would simply add raw curry powder to a casserole recipe and then serve it as a curry

Sorry to hear that you were disappointed, Phil, and that your findings were so different from others' (again).

I cannot really explain your findings.  I don't really understand why you found "the distinct flavour (and smell) of raw curry powder".  I've never found this.  I've tried many, many, variations (including frying the spices) and have found this method to be the best (to preserve flavours, freshness, etc).

Yes, I'm sure that you didn't publish the recipe lightly, and that you carried out many experiments before putting (e)-pen to (e-)paper, but I am still unclear what exactly was your thinking behind (1) the inclusion of, and (2) the timing of the inclusion of (a) curry masala, and (b) curry powder in your base.  Coming from a KD1 background, it may well be that my expectations are different to yours, but it is not at all clear to me why one would include curry masala and curry powder in a base and, if one is going to do so, why they are neither bhooned nor cooked for any appreciable time.  Your comments and thoughts would be much appreciated.

You are anyway frying the spices (and the curry base) when you subsequently prepare your final curries, aren't you?  Or perhaps you're still adding spices to cold oil..... :-X

No, I am frying the spices (yes, in initially cold oil of course, so as to avoid any risk of burning them) but I am not "frying" the base, nor do I see how one can "fry" a base.  It is (gently) heated, and then added to the pre-fried chicken, garlic, ginger, chilli, oil, etc., but is it really possible to "fry" a substance (base) that is primarily an aqueous liquid with suspended vegetable matter and spices ?  I can see that if you heat it for sufficiently long that all the water is driven off then you could fry what remains, but if you did that you would end up with a dish with no discernible sauce ... 

In reality what you are doing is braising the spices (and the other suspended ingredients, and the meat); in a KD-style curry, that is indeed what you do (the spices are never fried at all), but the main difference as far as I  can see is that KD eschews curry powder and you include it.  Is there any reason to think that perhaps curry powder (which is, after all, only a blend of spices) is less amenable to braising than the basic spices that KD uses ?  What /is/ (or what /are/) the ingredient(s) of curry powder that gives it that unmistakeable "curry powder" smell/aroma ?  Incidentally, having just gone out to the kitchen to check, I notice that Bolst's Hot curry powder smells completely different from Rajah Madras Curry Powder (Hot), but this may not be conclusive as the latter has been open for some months while the former is only a couple of weeks old.

Thanks for trying it, and reporting your findings, anyway! 

You are very welcome : I really hope we can get to the bottom of my "why"s, (and my "what"s), because there are  clearly many things I am failing to understand.

** Phil.

[Aussie Mick]

I have cooked the following bases all from this site

- CA
- Chewytikka
- Zaal
- Litle India
- Taz

After careful consideration and the feedback from people that have tried the finished curries, (I use curry2go mixed powder in the final dish....again, after trying a good few, I find it the best), but I cannot distinguish between CA's and Chewy's bases...they are my favourites.

I did like the Taz base, but was concerned with the amount of oil in there....too much for my personal liking.

The other 2 are great too, but personally, CA and CT bases do it for me, and CA's is easy as there is no need to re-heat and wait for the oil seperation, so for me it's a time saver, and a hands down winner. I usually add a bit of cabbage too, as it suits my taste.

[Cory Ander]

I am still unclear what exactly was your thinking behind (1) the inclusion of, and (2) the timing of the inclusion of (a) curry masala, and (b) curry powder in your base.....it is not at all clear to me why one would include curry masala and curry powder in a base and, if one is going to do so, why they are neither bhooned nor cooked for any appreciable time

1.  Inclusion:

a)  As we have previously discussed (elsewhere), "curry masala" (or simply "masala"), "spice mix", "curry powder", "mixed powder", etc, are synonyms.  They are all a mixture of spices.  To my mind "curry powder" (as referred to on this forum and in BIR cooking) is most often used as a generic term for a  commercially bought mixtures of powdered spices (e.g. Rajah Mild Madras). 

b)  All (?) BIR curry bases include a mixture of spices, in whatever form (i.e. whole and/or powdered).  Invariably, spices are included in the forum of a mixture of dry, powdered, spices (i.e. what this forum commonly refers to as "spice mix" or "mixed powder").

c)  Many (most?) BIR "spice mix" or "mixed powder" contains commercially bought "curry powder". 

d)  My "curry masala" does not include commercially bought "curry powder".  So, much like you choose to add individual spices separately, I do the same with my curry base (i.e. I add my "curry masala" and commercially bought "curry powder" separately). 

This is otherwise consistent with what BIRs generally do.

2.  Timing:

a)  Through empirical research (which I know you are particularly fond of  ), I have found that adding the spices, towards the end of cooking the base, gives the best results.

b)  I have found that adding the spices at the beginning results in a less flavoursome and fresh-tasting curry base

c)  I have found that frying the spices, before adding them, adds little to the quality of the resultant curry base (if it adds anything positive at all)

d)  I figure that adding the spices to the hot base, simmering for 5 minutes, and allowing to cool, is sufficient for the essential oils (flavours) in the spices to be extracted into the curry base (via the oil contained in the curry base)

This is otherwise consistent with what BIRs generally do (though I accept that many will fry the spices before adding them towards the end of the curry base preparation process).

On a similar note, I have found that simmering the curry base, after blending, adds nothing to the flavour or aroma of the curry base.

]but I am not "frying" the base, nor do I see how one can "fry" a base.  It is (gently) heated, and then added to the pre-fried chicken, garlic, ginger, chilli, oil, etc., but is it really possible to "fry" a substance (base) that is primarily an aqueous liquid with suspended vegetable matter and spices ?

My understanding of "frying" is to cook in hot oil or fat.  So the curry base (and the spices within it) is being (or should be) "fried" in hot oil (in my opinion).  The same can be said of the tomato paste, I believe, it is "fried" (in hot oil).

This is why, in my recipes, I invariably state to add the curry base, a little at a time, so as to "fry" it and reduce it. 

In reality what you are doing is braising the spices (and the other suspended ingredients, and the meat); in a KD-style curry, that is indeed what you do (the spices are never fried at all)

That might be true if you were to add too much liquid (e.g. curry base) at a time, and/or have insufficient oil, and/or have insufficient heat to fry it.

but the main difference as far as I  can see is that KD eschews curry powder and you include it

Which is one possible reason why KD curries (and methods) do not much resemble typical BIR curries and never did (in my opinion).

[Helgatron]

Hi
Silly question but by capiscum do you mean a normal 'bell' pepper or a chilli.
Cheers, Helg

[PaulP]

Hi Helgatron,

The capsicum is a normal bell pepper, not a chilli.

Paul

[Cory Ander]

No comments on my previous post on this thread, Phil (or anybody else, for that matter), in reply to your previous questions?

Or, perhaps you're more interested in discussing fine cigars, fine wines and ladies' bra sizes, than you are in discussing cooking BIR curries?