Topic: What? More oil??

[Derek Dansak]

There is no turning back now Jerry !    ;D

[JerryM]

agreed  ;D

[JerryM]

There is no turning back now

just taking this in a bit more it amazes me how far we must have all travelled since joining the site. the collective knowledge and help makes such a difference.

i bought the KD book when it 1st came out (i guess 1990 ish). it's only in the last year since joining that i've really started to travel in style. simply brill!

[Cory Ander]

I asked to buy oil, or anything they could offer, to get that taste, and they said there is nothing to sell to help with that. they said its all about preperation, technique, and a life time of erradicating certain flavors in a curry and improving the good flavors bit by bit over many years. i believe this. i have seen their oil, and it is just veg oil. i have purchased there base, and it is a very plain greenish veg stock with virtually no spice.

Derek,

So you have plain (unseasoned?) vegetable oil.  The base is like a "very plain...vegetable stock".  And the "secret" is supposedly in the "preparation, technique and a lifetime of......"??

Well, as far as I can see, cooking curries (i.e. "the technique") is a question of:

- sequence (i.e. of adding the ingredients)
- time (how long you cook things for)
- temperature (what temperature you cook them at)

And, for the life of me, I cannot see how any of this (from observing practices in restaurants and restaurant videos, etc) creates the "taste" or the "smell" of a good BIR curry!!! 

Furthermore, I have seen NOTHING that requires umpteen years of training in order to produce it!!  :

So what do you (and CK) think are the the important issues regarding the so called "techiques"  Nobody has, yet, seemed able to define it!??

From what I can tell, "technique" generally involves frying some garlic, ginger, tomato paste, some basic spices, curry base and pre-cooked meat, in some defined sequence (for some time and at some temperature) and, "hey presto!", I have the "taste" and "smell"!

I would be REALLY interested in hearing more about about these so-called "techniques"

[JerryM]

i'm getting inconsistency at the moment. gut feeling being that it must be down to technique.

so i too feel discussion on sequence, time and temperature would help us all (having much to learn and improve on).

this is what i do and why (hoping it will draw out further thoughts and clarification on what's best practise):

1) sequence "steps/stages" :

a) oil, garlic/ginger, onion, pepper
b) spices, tom puree in water, some base
c) base, pre cooked meat, coriander

there seems to be 3 discrete stages. the 1st being general frying to take the rawness out. the 2nd being what i call emulsification (for me the crucial stage) where the spices are cooked. the 3rd being fast simmer to stop the emulsification abruptly, heat any additional ingredients and evap off excess water to intensify the taste of the collective ingredients.

2) time

a) very short time (a matter of secs) when the rawness smell has gone
b) medium time (a minute or so) - the end point is the crux and difficult to detect for me
c) long time (a few minutes) - when a good consistency is reached

the 1st and 3rd i feel are easy to detect as the technique's are used in general cooking and nothing new to most people. the 2nd is much more difficult to detect - too long and the spices burn. the "toffee" smell or when a smell from the spices is 1st detected was what i initially relied on. now i try to look for "craters" ie when escaping steam leaves a circular hole behind. trouble is i'm not sure if theses craters have to be across the full surface of the pan or not (or even if they are the best method of detecting the end point ie when the bulk of the base goes in).

3) temp

a) hot (i guess above 100C)
b) medium (around 100C)
c) medium

for me i keep the burner at the same setting throughout. i think it can be turned down for the 3rd stage ie the simmer when the base is being evaporated off (to reduce spittings of oil).

i feel there is probably a 4th variable ie the spoon. so:
4) spoon

a) frequent movement
b) no movement
c) now and again

i think i must change 1 or a few of these parts without realising. yet i always aim to follow the same "technique" for every dish i make - the ingredients being the only variable.

by improving our understanding of these contributors at least we would have a better chance of improving our dishes. i'm not convinced it's the be all as i'm sure we also have further to learn on spices.

[Cory Ander]

Hi Jerry,

Nearly three years ago, I asked which "techniques" are used to create the BIR taste? http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1283.msg11277#msg11277

Unfortunately, the thread had very few replies, which I find very strange, considering the number of members who seem to stress the importance of "techniques" over the importance of the curry base, spiced oil, or other explanations.

I'm pleased to see that you're at least having a go at defining what "techniques" actually means! 

[bighairybloke]

I agree with those 3 stages.  and i belive major factors are; not too much of any one spice; use lots of oil; A curry should fry, not boil...if you can hear bubling...your boiling, if you can hear sizzling, your frying!  Dont fry the onins until they brown, fry them till they're transparent. I dont precook meats other than lamb, i generaly add them after the spices have been added and cooked, just before adding the base.  Has any one done a youtube vid on curry making?  I fancy having a go sometime!

Steve

[haldi]

I see curries cooked every month at a takeaway, and have done for about two years now.
Sometimes I'm there for a couple of hours.
Honestly, there are no clever techniques.
Anybody could do it, with a takeaway's circumstances
The "skill" is in the base and the reclaimed oil.
I've had decent curries where only frozen food has been added
So ,for flavour, precooking isn't that important either
With the base there are only two rules that must be kept
Firstly never let the base burn, so stir occasionally right to the bottom of the pan.
Secondly, blend the base really well. This ensures that when it is reheated nothing "catches" this time either.
The making of the curries are really simple and nothing burns because they are cooked in this reclaimed oil
You can cook tomato puree or garlic ginger, for five minutes and it only slightly darkens.
Nothing burns.
There is tremendous room for various cooking times to get an identical result.
Quite often the chef will start a curry then go and sit down for a chat with his colleagues.
There is no split second cooking timing


I don't know if all takeaways do this, but certainly I know three that do.
And all these places produce curries that are fantastic
I accept that people have seen curry cooking with fresh oil, but believe that the hidden magic is in their base.
That will have been made with old oil.
Because that's where the "taste" lies

[JerryM]

Haldi,

i've posted in CA's original thread being more relevant. i hope u will add your thoughts their as they are clearly going to help us focus in on what's important.

[Curry Barking Mad]

I see curries cooked every month at a takeaway, and have done for about two years now.
Sometimes I'm there for a couple of hours.
Honestly, there are no clever techniques.
Anybody could do it, with a takeaway's circumstances
The "skill" is in the base and the reclaimed oil.
I've had decent curries where only frozen food has been added
So ,for flavour, precooking isn't that important either
With the base there are only two rules that must be kept
Firstly never let the base burn, so stir occasionally right to the bottom of the pan.
Secondly, blend the base really well. This ensures that when it is reheated nothing "catches" this time either.
The making of the curries are really simple and nothing burns because they are cooked in this reclaimed oil
You can cook tomato puree or garlic ginger, for five minutes and it only slightly darkens.
Nothing burns.
There is tremendous room for various cooking times to get an identical result.
Quite often the chef will start a curry then go and sit down for a chat with his colleagues.
There is no split second cooking timing


I don't know if all takeaways do this, but certainly I know three that do.
And all these places produce curries that are fantastic
I accept that people have seen curry cooking with fresh oil, but believe that the hidden magic is in their base.
That will have been made with old oil.
Because that's where the "taste" lies

Hi haldi,
I too am aware of the use of old oil in the gravy, I saw this a few days ago on the Maliks webcam, my only question would be :: 1/ is it oil that the poppadoms were cooked in? or 2/ is it oil from the fryers that the bhajis etc were fried in ?

Bob