I've had time to make up a scaled down version, of the curry gravy recipe, I was recently given

https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2093.0.html

I made it with
seven slightly small supermarket onions
400ml cheap supermarket veg oil
1 desertspoon salt
one desertspoon bassaar spice mix
one desertspoon turmeric
two cloves garlic
2 canned tomatoes
a quarter can of chick peas
and water up to the level of the onions

I boiled for about three hours, as instructed
The result was very dissapointing
I had frozen some of the takeaway's curry gravy and compared it to mine
I got the colour and texture, but it missed that extra "yummy" flavour

So what could it be?

Wrong type of onions and oil?

So I bought a 5kg bag of onions from an Asian shop and some KTC oil too.
(The onions were only one pound 20p. Bargain!!!)
I made the recipe again
This time the result was closer, but way too sweet
I mean really sweet, as if I had put in half a cup of sugar.

I ran out of cooking time, so I will have to experiment another weekend
But surely there can be only a couple of variations, in a recipe as simple as this.
How long to boil the onions
Or (dare I say it) the quantity you cook in

Anyhow, I made a really nice ctm with some of the gravy

I heated some skimmed curry gravy oil for a minute
Added a spoon of tomato puree and a splash of curry gravy
Stirred a moment
Added a desertsoon of spice mix
Stirred a minute then added another splash of curry gravy
Added two desertspoon coconut flour, one desertspoon ground almonds, one teaspoon of sugar,1 desertspoon pataks tandoori paste, and a quarter teaspoon red food colour
Stirred for a minute
Then added some thawed out some "home pre made" chicken tikka, and a splash of curry gravy
I cooked for five minutes than added a drop of milk (I'd run out of cream)
Two minutes later and it was ready
The best I have recently made

So, back to the onion theory
At what stage should we blend them
When they have just wilted?
That would bring the cooking time right down
For a six/eight onion base it would be ready in half an hour
Any thoughts?

Hi Secret Santa
               A briliant post
Very similar to things I have seen as well
I've never come across precooked mushrooms though (there's always something new)
I'm glad you got the spice mix breakdown
Although I've been told before, I somehow doubted it.
The stones you mentioned for the tandoor, get superheated.
I think they can be used on gas powered barbeques too
Nobody seems to use charcoal tandoors anymore
Thanks for the post!

Quote from: Jeera on October 27, 2007, 12:17 PM
Haldi, have you scaled down to a 10 or 15 onion version of this base ? Could you ?

Hi Jeera
         I've run out of spare cooking time at the moment, so I may not get a chance to try a scaled down recipe for a couple of weeks.
But I believe that ten onions are about a third of a 10 kg bag of onions
So simply divide the recipe by three
This is what I think it should be

Recipe moved to the recipe section here:  https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2093.0

Guys, please post recipes in the recipes section and not half way through another thread.  This is so other people can actually find them!  Thankyou.

Thanks for posting this,Parker 21
It's fantastic getting behind the scenes, isn't it?
It feels somehow magical and secret
It leaves you wishing to go back again
All the chefs I've met are really friendly people
When they have met you a few times, they don't mind telling you things

Quote from: curryqueen on October 25, 2007, 07:30 PM
Hi Haldi,

My other half is a gas technician and says that if the restaurants flames on the gas ring were yellow it means that the gas ring would need cleaning and was blocked, hence its burning neat gas and there is no air mixture.  CQ

Thank you CQ
I believe you use a large cooker, is that gas?

Quote from: Cory Ander on October 25, 2007, 10:02 AM
So was this a vindaloo strength curry base then Haldi?  Because, if I understand you correctly, he made it into extra vindaloo sauce by adding nothing other than tomato paste and reclaimed oil?
I do agree that the curry base is critical to a good BIR curry.

Yes, you are right
Vindaloo round here, is a medium curry, not hot
So the base is suitable for that or things such as a korma
For the sauce he added no extra spice
But for the curry he added hot spice mix (bassar) and just a pinch of cummin and coriander

Hi Stu
      Yes, I will make the base, but I'm going to try to scale it down.
I don't know how, but my freezer is always piled high with frozen curries, curry gravies, rice & tandoori chicken.
When I come home from shopping I can't fit anything in it!!
It drives my wife mad.
So if I made fifteen litres of curry gravy, I think we might fall out

Quote from: Cory Ander on October 25, 2007, 04:25 AM
Yellow flames indicate that there is too much gas and too little air for efficient combustion   There should be a "mixture" screw somewhere that you can play with?  Yellow flames are cooler than blue flames (where complete combustion is occurring).
(check the gold control rings:  https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1851.msg16037#msg16037).

Thanks, I will take a closer look

Continuing the chat I had with the chef:-

He proceeded to make a veg vindaloo with extra sauce
The following recipe demonstrates why it's do important to have a perfect curry gravy
Some recipes are little more than heated curry gravy

Chef took a can of spiced oil from the fridge
The oil becomes thick when cold and looks most "un oil" like
He took two desertspoons of this and heated it in a pan for about two minutes
The gas flames were running up the side of the pan
He then added three desertspoons of tomato puree and stirred this round the pan for a minute
The tomato puree is straight from a can
Not diluted and made by "white tower"
Chef then put in two ladles of curry gravy and boiled it for about three minutes
All the time, little spits of oil were igniting at the side of the pan
This was giving an amazing BIR aroma
You would recognise it
Chef turned down the flame and added a teaspoon more of tomato puree and maybe half a ladle of curry gravy
He cooked on this lower heat for a couple of minutes then the sauce was finished
He put half of this into a foil container with a cardboard lid
This was the finished extra vindaloo sauce

So with half the sauce still left in the pan, he added half a teaspoon of salt
Some "thawed out" frozen mixed veg
Two small pieces of pre cooked potato (pre cooked in water,turmeric and salt)
A desertspoon of canned mushrooms from a fridge
Chef stirred this all round for a minute then added another ladle of curry gravy and half a desertspoon of hot spice mix
He cooked on for five minutes then added a tiny pinch of ground coriander and a tiny pinch of ground cummin
Chef scraped this delicious vindaloo into a plastic carton and carefully snapped the lid on.
It was brilliant that he took so much time and effort to help me with my curry cooking hobby.
Just because I know how to do it won't stop me buying from him
You can't always be bothered to spend hours cooking, can you?
And there is no way I would want to do this as a business

But seriously, having watched this very closely, I think you need big flames and heat to get the BIR flavour
This new cooker of mine will get me what I have strived, for twenty odd years, to achieve
I compared some of his vindaloo sauce with some made with my new cooker.
Apart from a very slight "dried fenugreek taste" it was the same
That brings me to another point
If you cook your curries, then you don't enjoy them as much
I had tried my sauce after I first made it
I thought it was really un satisfactory, when it was really ok

Quote from: brum_57 on October 24, 2007, 06:39 PM
p/s - anyone tried once of these (7kw) - http://www.eurocosm.com/Application/Products/Cooking-products/hot-wok-GB.asp

I think there was some sort of debate over the heat power with these
I got the impression they weren't hot enough for BIR cooking

I talked at length with the chef about cooking the curries and his base sauce
This place make superb curries so I really wanted to know anything he would tell.
His curry base is totally vegetarian
I see absolutely no reason to not reproduce his base at home using a domestic cooker

The ratio of oil to onions is a little alarming
I was shown the oil skimmed off the curry base before it is blended
To four parts of base there was one part of oil in volume
This spiced oil is then kept in the fridge until it is required for cooking the curries
The blended curry base is fridged too
The base is thick and needs watering by it's own volume again for curry cooking

Ingredients to make (what I estimate at about) 15 lires of thick undiluted gravy
one large sack of onions (10 kg I think)
one and half litres ktc veg oil
two chef spoons salt
two and a half chef spoon hot spice mix
one chef spoon turmeric
one 400 gramme can of tomatoes
one 400 gramme can of chick peas
two bulbs of garlic
enough water to come close to the top of the pan

Simply boil the lot for three hours
Cool a little and scoop off the oil
Blend the rest
Fridge both when cold enough

Dilute the thick curry gravy with the same proportion of water
This will also need a boil to bring back the flavour

I was so surprised at the relatively little tomatoes in the mix
No coriander leaves or tomato puree either
And there is proportionately little spice in it
The base can't be hot (it's used for mild curries too)

That's not to say that other places don't use them, but this place doesn't bother
And I really love their cooking
The chef (who I am really gratefull to) said some places make their base using the boiled chicken water
It gives more flavour, but we've already discussed that one, and a lot of people got upset.
He never does this, because many people are vegetarian
He also said that some chefs make the curry gravy without water
They just use oil
That has got to be very very greasy
I don't like thinking about that one

I am sure a scaled down version of his curry gravy could be made
There is no extra requirement for heat
But I am sure the cooking of the final curry needs more heat
How much more I don't know, but he cooks with the flames licking the frying pan handle
That's how tasty his curries are

Thanks everyone for all the advice
The cooker cost ?140
But then I had to get it converted to propane

I am on holiday at the moment and managed to get into the kitchens of one of my takeaway friends.

His cooker had identical gas rings, but I think I may have a problem
His flames rise maybe 6 inches up from his gas rings and are yellow
Although I am getting very strong heat, my flames are only about two inches high and blue
I can't turn the heat up anymore
Anyone understand this?

I watched the chef prepare a vindaloo (I've got other info that I will post later)

There has been debate over this flaming of the curry
Does it effects the flavour?
Well definitely yes
Although this curry demo didn't have the whole pan on fire, it did contantly have little spits of oil at the side of the pan, rising/ignighting/then falling back into the pan.
It gives a very BIR aroma
Important to note, is that the curry is effectively cooked from beneath and the sides of the pan.

I've just bought another pan from an Asian supermarket
It's only 8 inches wide and made of aluminium (I think)
It looks very like the pans I have seen used
It will also help with getting flames up the side of the pan

All the chefs pans are smashed on the rim where they strike with the spoon
That must be a soft metal to do that
Aluminium is soft isn't it?

Will post some more later

It's a totally new ball game
Everything in the pan evaporates really quickly
The spices,tomato puree and the base
It's very hard to know when to stop adding the base
I usually add it when the curry is drying up
The curry easily ends up with far too strong a flavour
I think the base needs to be very underspiced for it to work
I am taking a sample of my base and a vindaloo sauce to a chef today.
I hope he can put me straight
I don't think my old recipes will work