Blimey, Terry - that was quick!  I got your package this morning!

Thanks very much.  It looks like you've included some all-purpose seasoning as well; looks slightly different to the Rajah version (which I've already got).

Thanks again

Ian
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Hi Terry

Is there any chance you might be able to send me a small sample of Rajah Madras Gold to try when I make your base recipe, please?  I've PM'd my address to you.

Can't find it anywhere locally - the nearest store selling it is in London (as far as I can see).

Ian
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Thanks very much for sharing this, Terry - and thanks also to George for the reformatted layout, and to CC, Curryqueen and Curryking for posting feedback on the result.  I've just run out of my last lot of base so I'll be trying this next.

One thing I've noticed - Terry's version has a teaspoon of concentrated tamarind added with the coconut block,  and I can't see it on George's draft.  Was this added by Terry in an edit after George had posted?

I'm interested in this, because my local's menu has brief descriptions like "Madras - hot curry cooked with cinnamon, lemon juice etc" and "Pathia - fairly hot curry cooked with tamarind".  I've thought for a long time that they're actually selectively describing ingredients in their base sauce and pre-cooked meat methods in doing this, as it's unlikely  that there's this much variation in individual dishes (but it makes it seem so on the menu, without breaking the Trade Descriptions Act ;D  ). Anyway:

Those of you that have made this base up - did you use the tamarind?

Ian
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Thanks for all the feedback and clarification, everyone.

I'm wondering if Bruce has quartered the amounts of ingredients he saw being used in the kitchen. It seems reasonable, as he lists 1/4 each of lemon and bunched coriander, and 8 onions x 4 = 32, which is in line with the amount that MarkJ was told by his friendly chef.  So if Bruce saw a whole tin of tomatoes being used, he might have got home and opened a tin to find 4 or so.

So I'll definitely try just one in the next batch.

Out of interest, here's a summary of the alterations I've made to the BE sauce which resulted in my best effort so far.

One pint of oil instead of 250 mls, for reclaiming - but no ghee

3 & 3/4 pints of water instead of two (and more added at the end, to get required consistency)

Two black cardamoms (removed before pureeing) and 1tsp methi leaves added with the spices in stage 2 - but only 1/2 tsp of ajwain seeds

Two carrots instead of four

One slightly undersized green pepper instead of half each of red and green pepper

One whole tin of tomatoes (whoops - but it worked)

Half a 2oz pack of cut coriander - as many stalks as possible rather than leaves (1/4 of a bunch the size sold by my local Tesco would be equivalent to a whole 2oz pack, at least)

No yoghurt

and I didn't add the Tarka.

Left overnight before pureeing, oil replaced after and the whole base brought back up to a boil then simmered until the oil resurfaced for reclaiming.  Cooled immediately in a sink of cold water.

I think the ajwain does need to be there, but (as everyone agrees) nowhere near the amount Bruce specifies.  The smell I've identified as being 'sort of toffee-ish' in bought curries is, I think, very close to the aroma produced by the combination of cooked green pepper, black cardamom, methi and ajwain seeds.  But they've never been mentioned by any of the chefs you guys have talked to (though thyme has, which does have a  similar aroma).

I'm having issues with the celery - I think it's responsible for a gritty texture in the finished base.  It seems to remain quite fibrous, no matter how long I puree for, and even when I've boiled everything for half an hour longer than the recipe suggests.

If anyone's wondering how I arrived at 3 & 3/4 pints of water, I weighed all the prepared ingredients and then compared that to the combined weights of the ingredients listed in KD's recipe.  KD uses 2 & 1/2 pints of water, but produces much less sauce.  So I scaled the water up pro rata so the proportion to BE's ingredients was the same (if that makes sense).

This produced nearly five litres of sauce - enough for 10 of my curries - once the extra water had also been added at the end.   

Hi Dave

Yes, I can remember curries being very rich, with - say - a Madras being dark brown. These days, if my own curry ends up that colour I dismiss it as a failure!

I've had a few stinkers from takeaways around here - one I had before Christmas just tasted like tough-as-old-boots chicken lumps sitting in watery Oxo gravy with shedloads of chilli powder.  That's no exaggeration!  But I think quality will always out; we've got our takeaway of choice in Basildon and all my friends recommend it to others - unofficial Curry Touts, if you like (or should that be curry louts?!).


I finally got the oil to separate from my BE sauce last night - I heated the base sauce to a simmer in a seperate saucepan before adding it to the dish, which I've not done before as BE says that hot blended sauce deteriorates in taste.  The first half ladle evaporated in the pan in about 10 seconds!  Also, I found that shaking the pan (as opposed to stirring the contents) really encouraged the oil to rise to the surface.

About two and a half chef's spoons of reclaimed oil went in at the beginning, and just under two got spooned off at the end - so that's better.  The amount of golden red oil fringing the curry on the plate looked just about right, compared to our favorite local takeaway.

Can I just ask a couple of questions of people who've tried the BE recipes?

In Pete's scan of the page, it says under the base sauce ingredients list "1 Tomato - tinned".  In Ray's excellent re-typed summary, he says "1 Tinned tomato".  So does that mean just one tomato taken from a tin, or one whole tin of tomatoes?  I've been using a whole tin so far.

(Sorry if that's a stupid question - nobody else seems to have asked it, so I suppose it might be!)

Also:  Do any of you de-seed the 4 green chillies before adding them to the base?  I have so far, for fear of making the base too hot (my girlfriend doesn't have the asbestos tastebuds that I do).

Thanks in advance

Ian
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Thanks, Admin.  I'm working my way through all the variations of recipes on this site - I like to have three or four shots at each one before moving on to the next.

I cooked up a new pot of BE sauce last night, and I've left it overnight before pureeing.  If I can only get the oil to seperate, it'll be very close to what I'm after.

But then all of the recipes I've tried from this site are very close.

Hi everyone.  Sorry, long time no post.

Right - I've been at this home-curry making business for about six years now, and a definite pattern is starting to emerge.  Here's what generally happens:

1.  I find a recipe.

2.  I follow the recipe to the absolute letter, using medicinal measuring spoons for the spices and a stopwatch for the timing.

3.  I eat the finished curry.

4. I sit and re-read the recipe for about two hours, scrutinising every line in dismay, trying to work out where I could possibly have gone wrong ...

Then:

5. Full of optimism, I decide to try to adapt an existing recipe -  leaving some ingredients out, adding others, changing cooking times and so on.

6. I eat the curry.

7. I go to bed but am unable to sleep, kept awake as I am by the ghosts of BIR chefs chuckling and blowing raspberries in my ear.

:

Actually it's not all that bad - though sometimes it feels as if it is.  The latest casualty of my technique (or lack of it) seems to be the Bruce Edwards recipes.  The first time I tried them, the curries seemed to be (to my palette) over-flavoured.  The base sauce does seem very rich, made up as is.  But like everyone else, I'm aware we're probably all chasing different things, based on our local favourite takeaways.  Perhaps some curry houses do serve food as rich and powerfully flavoured as the Bruce Edwards recipes.

On the other hand it's entirely possible that I just can't cook. :-[

Anyway, I've made a couple of batches of the base sauce since then, and halved the amount of some ingredients like carrot and peppers.  I've added a bit more water in the initial stage as well.  My other half now thinks the resulting curries are the best I've made, which is some relief (I think!).

I'm adding a pint of oil at the beginning too, and ladling it off for cooking the individual dishes afterwards.  But a problem I'm having is getting the oil in the finished dishes to separate.  If I use a KD-based curry gravy, I can put five tablespoons of oil in a pan for the finished dish and at the end, more or less spoon four tablespoons off before serving.  But my tweaked BE gravy seems to hold on to the oil - I'm lucky to even get a teaspoon off at the end.

Has anyone else had this problem?  I'd like to avoid it as it makes the curry taste 'over-emulsified', and will do my ever-expanding waistline no favours at all.

I've tried simmering for longer (meat ends up as tough as old boots), adding the base half a ladle at a time and evaporating off between (works initially, then gives up after the third ladle) and boiling the curry for five minutes initially as per KD (sauce ends up the consistency of Polyfilla).

I've just bought a new hand blender, and it's very good - perhaps it's too good, and I'm pureeing the base too finely?  Not enough water left in the onion particles or something?

Any ideas gratefully received.

Hi Pete.

That KD Base sauce  - just when I think I've finally dismissed it it always jumps back up and bites me!

Can I ask how you adapted the base sauce to get enough oil floating on the top to re-use for the dish?  Did you add more oil when frying the tomatoes/turmeric/paprika puree, or add more oil once the two stages were combined and before simmering? Did you stick to the same quantities of everything else from the book's recipe?

Thanks in advance Pete
Ian
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It was me!:

https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=252.0

If it's the same stuff, it's also called pimenton.  It's oak-smoked paprika.  It just ruined the base.

Part of the problem I think (and certainly it's a trap that I fall into) is that - for instance - in trying to describe the X factor in BIRs I'll come up with descriptions like 'smokey' or 'toffee-ish'. And then I'll take it too literally, so I'll add something smokey to the dish - pimenton, barbequed onions, whatever.  But in reality, it's not the actual taste or smell of smoke or toffee at all.  Just something along those lines.

I'm starting to think now that it's not one special, secret 'hidden' ingredient.  It's so unlikely that one of us wouldn't have stumbled across it by now, with all the collective wading through spices and ingredients and recipes we've all done over the years.

It might be a combination of things, mixing together to create 'that smell/taste'.  Like the way you mix two colours to get a third.  It might be sheer technique.  But I am puzzled as to why all the demos and first hand info from chefs haven't yielded consistent, powerfully 'right' results.

And let's face it - it's so much more tempting to think there is a single, missing ingredient - 'cos then all we'd have to do is find it!

I've tried asafoetida in the base sauce, but found it tends to get swallowed up (if you'll pardon the pun!).  I've had greater success using it in the final dish early on - about 1/4 -1/2 teaspoon.

I think it adds something along the right lines.  I don't personally find the smell repulsive, and I find it mellows quite a lot when cooked. For me, it's the smell of poppadoms.  I often wonder if it's used in the making of them.