You cook chips in Onion Bhaji oil? Do they taste spicy?

I know it covers Onion Bhajis! I'm in negotiations with my wife to go on one of the courses soon. maybe all 3 of us should book on the same course. I imagine between us we could get answers to all the questions we need to know!

Hi 976bar,

I think it is important to use plenty of oil in the first place, I use about 500ml to which I add the spices and fry for a couple of minutes before adding in all the onions and veg and water. I simmered for an hour then blended. I then simmered for another 2 - 3 hours. I didn't notice very much separation for the first 2 hours, then it came through quite well. I still only probably got 100ml back but this was more than enough to cook with.

I hope this helps.

Well it definitely works for my onion bhajis. I always save the oil and reuse it next time. Its only done 60 - 70 bhajis but it has gone a dark colour and smells lovely. Personally I think the bhajis get most of their flavour from the old oil.

The next time I make up a batch of base I'll use it and see if it makes a difference. it might be that it hasn't been used enough but I would expect to see some change in the taste for better or worse.

Hi Haldi

I'm quite new to this forum and to the BIR at home scene, but I also find this hard to believe. If the end result is 100% BIR then that's fantastic but there must be another reason for it. I don't imagine every Indian restaurant goes around to local takeaways asking for leftover chip oil.

It would be interesting to see what type of oil they were using. Commercial oil although dreadfully bad for you from a saturates point of view, does give food a really good taste. For example, I would say it is impossible to replicate a Chip Shop portion of chips at home even though all they use is chopped up Maris Piper potatoes. Maybe the breakthrough wasn't the fact it was old oil, maybe it was just commercial grade saturated / trans fat. Probably the same stuff most of the BIR's use...

I saw a good program about it a while ago, the clip that is most relevant is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfFEBlSD7LU

It is worth investigating and would tie up an awful lot of loose ends, the biggest of which being why cant BIR chefs replicate a BIR curry at home. the answer could be in the oil.

Well spotted Haldi, it could be a breakthrough for everyone if it proves to be true. It would be brilliant if you could find out the type of oil they use. A picture of the container would be extremely useful.

I only eat fillet steak and I like it medium to well done. I don't enjoy the raw taste or the blood spilling onto my plate that rare or blue produce. My ideal would be charred on the outside and pink in the middle with no blood running.

A couple of great tips I have picked up over the years and swear by...

Firstly (and this goes totally against Jerrys comment) you should cover it in salt and leave on a plate for about 30 mins before cooking. This really tenderizes the meat. After the 30 mins is up wash it thoroughly to get all the salt off otherwise you will get one ruined salty steak.

Once it is well washed, dry it with paper towels and give it a good rub with black pepper. You then need to heat a griddle pan up so it is very hot and place the steak on it. Turn it once (I do mine about 3 mins on each side) than put the whole pan in a preheated oven for 10 - 15 mins at about 160. This last stage really makes the difference and the steak will simply melt in the mouth.

I have just had some interesting chats with 2 Indian head chefs. I work as an IT recruitment consultant so I have access to thousands of CV's and luckily there were a few Indian chefs on there complete with mobile numbers and email addresses.

So first chef said he didn't think it was possible to perfectly replicate the BIR taste at home. This was mainly down to the large quantities they were making not working as well when scaled down to home cooking. He thought the base sauce (Curry King Vindaloo Base and Sauce recipe) sounded very good although he would usually use potato instead of carrot. He thought fresh base sauce was better than old stuff but they would usually use a batch for up to 48 hours.

The second chef was even more helpful and apparently runs cooking classes in Bristol twice a month - www.myristica.co.uk. Although in his current job he is cooking posh indian food rather than BIR style, his previous experience was all BIR based.

He thought with the right ingredients and method it is perfectly possible to get the perfect curry at home, but it takes a lot of practice to get it right. He ran through the main 5 base sauces of traditional Indian cooking. The main one was our standard base in which he said they would use 10kg of onions and 3kg of fresh plum tomatoes along with the usual extras. He also said in India they only use red onions as the white or Spanish onions can taste too sweet. They also have a tomato based base sauce which is basically just tomatoes and onions, then there was a green base which was coriander based, a white base (cant remember what was in that one) and a very dry base. They would use scoops from each to make up the dishes. A Madras for example would 2 scoops of onion base and 1 scoop of tomato base (along with the other spices).

He confirmed that fresh base is better than old base so that myth is comprehensively dispelled now.

He was also nice enough to give me some onion bhaji tips which I'll get working on and post if they are better than my current version.

The final tip he gave was to add a sprinkle of chaat masala on the dishes before serving. This can be on everything from a CTM to a potion of Onion Bhajis. I've never tried the stuff before so I cant comment, but I'll be getting an order in soon.

I have an email address for both of them so I'm sure they would answer any specific questions anyone might have.

Thanks everyone for your posts. This argument has obviously been raging for several years but it is a shame there is still no definitive answer to the perfect method.

It would be great if a few people could quiz their local chefs with the questions CA suggests. I'm sure the answers are within our collective grasp. I'll see what answers I can get from my local TA next time I pop in.

My vindaloo yesterday was extremely good. I opted for a CK recipe and it was simple yet really nice. I made a few changes to the base recipe. Mainly I heated 300 ml of oil in the pan and added the spices to it when it was hot. I figured this would release more flavour from the spices as well as flavouring the oil for later reclaim. I also used a combination of fresh peeled tomatoes and a tin of chopped tomatoes. For my personal preference I think it needed at least 15 fresh tomatoes, not the 6 I had.

The other thing made the base better than my previous attempts was using a hand blender in the pot and not over blending. In the past I have always read it should go in a blender for at least 5 mins to get a totally smooth sauce. I thought having a bit of texture to the sauce really made it taste more authentic. I also simmered it for a good 4 - 5 hours in total then skimmed off the oil.

As previously suggested I have tried it today, and yes, it definitely tastes even better. It was a bit bland yesterday but the flavours are really starting to come through now. I think that should be an essential point to all recipes, at least a 24 hour rest period after making it before use.

The final curry wasn't hot enough for me despite adding 6 - 7 tsps of hot chilli powder. It would have been mild for a Madras, so I definitely have some learning to do with the final part but for me, I don't think I'll have any need for a better base.

Hi CK

I made both the base and the Vindaloo yesterday and overall I was impressed.

The base was simply awesome. I used 6 fresh peeled tomatoes and a tinned of chopped tomatoes plus I added 300ml of the oil first which I heated up and added the spices to. once they had been sizzling in the oil for a minute I added the onions and vegetables and stirred until they were all covered in the spicy oil. I kept the heat on high for about 5 minutes stirring continuously, then I added the water and simmered for about 2 hours. I then blended with a hand blender left to cool while I went to the park with my kids for an hour, then I simmered again for another 2 - 3 hours until the oil split and I reclaimed for use in the curry stage.

The actual curry itself was a bit bland and I found it hard to get spicy enough. I think my hot chilli powder might be out of date as  I had to keep banging it on the worktop to get it to come out. In all I must have put 6 or 9 teaspoons in but it still wasn't very hot. When I precooked the chicken I fried 4 hot chillis in some oil, added cumin and turmeric and the chicken pieces. I fried them for a minute to cover then added boiling water for 5 minutes. I then added chicken and chillis to the sauce, but it still wasn't very hot - not even Madras hot (unless my tastebuds are just ruined). In hind site I should have thrown in a Dorset Naga chilli, that would have sorted it out! Have you ever had a similar problem before?

Anyway, thanks for a great recipe, I have plenty of base left over for future attempts. It definitely tastes even better this morning then it did yesterday.

I have just been reading through a lot of the old base sauce and vindaloo recipe archives and there is a recurring theme that has been touched on a number of times but never really explored in any great detail. With all the member here trying and experimenting with different permutations of ingredients and cooking methods you would think by now someone would have hit on the perfect recipe, but it hasn't happened. Everyone here is constantly changing their ideas trying to get the authentic BIR taste and smell.

What I have noticed from personal experience and from a number of other reports is that the Indian chefs themselves can't recreate the BIR taste at home. If they cant do it, what hope have we got? Obviously the taste is achievable in their restaurant kitchens so maybe what we should be looking for isn't a magic ingredient (that we all deep down know doesn't exist otherwise someone would have uncovered it by now), but rather something that they have there that we don't have at home.

Some have suggested burners with enough power to get super high heat, but surely the spices, garlic, ginger etc would burn too quickly? Maybe its down to the fact the base sauce keeps simmering for about 10 hours a day and is presumably kept for a couple of days at a time? I have certainly sometimes had runny bland curry's from my favourite BIR one day and then a thick really tasty one from the same place a few days later. I put it down to getting a dodgy sous-chef that day, but maybe it was down to the batch of base sauce being fresh that day. Certainly when I have had a bad Vindaloo, my wifes CTM has also been poor but when mine is excellent, hers has too.

Maybe there is another element we are failing to see? Maybe the taste is only achievable when cooking the base vast quantities. A carvery roast beef is always much nicer than a small joint cooked at home.

I honestly believe is we can crack the cooking method then the ingredients are much less important (as with the onion bhajis IMO).

Jerry and CA, as usual it would be great to hear your conflicting thoughts on this subject. It would also be great to hear if anyone has simmered their completed base sauce for 6 - 8 hours after blending to see if that makes any difference.

I'm going for a Rajver base and Vindaloo this evening so I am contemplating making the base at lunch and simmering it all day. I also have a very powerful wok burner on my range cooker so I'll have no problem achieving the high heats that the BIR's get.