Quote from: joshallen2k on August 09, 2009, 08:32 PM

QuoteNice one joshallen2k  If you can find a Restaurant that will make you a Chicken Curry from scratch using all fresh ingredients you might be surprised to find there is Curry life outside of traditional BIR 

Anything's possible! I wish it works out to be true, I really do. I just think that the "taste" that has made the old-school BIRs a British institution since the 70's, is more likely to be down the road Haldi is on, with the reused oil.

I'm sure that using fresh, quality ingredients, and without a base - would yield great tasting results... but would the taste be there?

Maybe there's another "taste" that you get from scratch/fresh cooking, that satisfies the palate in a similar (or better) way, but the only way to test that would be to use the recipes.

Eagerly awaiting the recipes 

Me too joshallen2k ,
                   Not being a hypocrite or anything but when I got home after my day at the Restaurant my Wife asked 'Where's my Curry then ' and if I would have asked before all the hobs were turned off and the Chef cleaned up I could have ordered a Curry for the Wife to take home.But she settled for a Curry from our local T/A and I couldn't resist a Madras either  ;D ;D And no it wasn't a patch on the earlier Curry I had ,it just tasted like a watered down version  oh dear here we go again 

Quote from: joshallen2k on August 09, 2009, 05:31 PM

Quotewe are talking a QUALITY Curry here not your T/A mass produced stuff.

I don't doubt it for a minute. This place sounds top notch. I also don't doubt that they dry roast and grind their own spices, and catch their own baby squid!

But it really depends on what you (and I, and others on the forum) are trying to reproduce.

For me, that's traditional BIR fare. (Madras, CTM, Vindaloo...) And to me that means a base, cheap spices, and likely plenty of corners cut (oil, etc).

Where I live (Toronto), there are dozens of "nouveau" Indian restaurants. The food in most of these is excellent, and probably not dissimilar to the restaurant you got your lesson from. But I'd take a grubby Chicken Madras, pilao and naan from a high street BIR (that produces the taste) anyday!

Nice one joshallen2k  If you can find a Restaurant that will make you a Chicken Curry from scratch using all fresh ingredients you might be surprised to find there is Curry life outside of traditional BIR 

Quote from: George on August 09, 2009, 05:15 PM

Quote from: Cory Ander on August 09, 2009, 02:52 PMIrrespectively, I, for one, would certainly be interested in learning more specifics (e.g. recipes, etc) about how they produce their curries 

I agree. Me too! Emin's place sound slike it produces superior curries. If he can write up any recipes and they're in the same class as Madhur Jaffrey's recipes, then I'd be far more likely to serve those, than many BIR dishes, to be honest, at least for a dinner party.

Thankyou George ,it's all in good fun at the end of the day 
But for meafter spending months over a hot stove  making this base and that base a bit o this and a bit o that and now shown by a 5* Authentic Indian Chef how to produce a fantastic Curry 'on the night' including a fresh made base every time ,Ive got to go with that.I will always follow the forum with interest but I think my Curry path has taken another direction and it doesn't include making any more premade bases 
I am expecting recipes in pdf format George I'll send them to you asap.

Quote from: CurryCrazy on August 09, 2009, 02:54 PM
Hi emin

Did they let you know what was in their spice mix?

I am sure that dry roasing and grinding fresh spices is key to any good curry. This as well as fresh ingredients has got to produce the best results..obvious really.

As per everyone else...surprised by the lack of base! I'm sure even Bruce Edwards says he makes two bases a week at home. I guess there is more than one way to achieve a good result. But what makes a good result great? Could it be a few beers first ;D ;D

Like that one CC  ;D but did stay in control
You probably mean lack of pre made base ? yes I was also surprised and very sceptical at first until the Chef 'created' the base from fresh Onions ,fresh Tomatoes etc etc to make a sort of pulp then added some water and the fresh base was born  he then added Spice mix Chili powder salt then  the precooked Chicken ,fresh Coriander and a squirt of single cream and finished with a really nice CTM.

Quote from: Cory Ander on August 09, 2009, 02:52 PM

Quote from: emin-j on August 09, 2009, 02:32 PM
what we had was not what you would normally get from your usual ( although still very tasty ) Restaurant or T/A..all this put their Curry way above any Restaurant / T/A i have visited and that's a fair few...when I make one at home It will be a proper Curry.

Steady on Emin!    I'm sure this place produces exquisite curries, using more traditional Indian cooking methods.  Nevertheless, I think it's incorrect to say that these curries are any more "proper" than typical BIR curries cooked using typical BIR cooking methods. 

If these curries, cooked using these methods, floats your boat, great, stick with it.

However, many members here wish to replicate typical BIR curries using typical BIR cooking methods.

"Quality" is very much in the eye of the beholder.  You might determine "quality" to be curries provided by this restaurant, at their prices, and cooked by more traditional means, whereas others (me included) might determine "quality" to be curries, provided by typical BIRs, using typical BIR cooking methods, at half the price.  Neither is more correct, but both constitute "quality" (in the eye of the beholder)...i.e. the right product at the right price! 

Irrespectively, I, for one, would certainly be interested in learning more specifics (e.g. recipes, etc) about how they produce their curries 

Quite right CA,perhaps Authentic is a better word  ;D I will be receiving recipes from Amit the owner and I will find out the Ingredients of their Spice mix and their Garam Masala , they don't use Curry Powder by the way 
Your comments regarding prices I agree with on a commercial scale but as a home Curry Maker I cant see it breaking the Bank using fresh ingredients over Pastes and Puree.

Quote from: George on August 09, 2009, 12:21 PM

Quote from: emin-j on August 09, 2009, 11:41 AMWhat we were shown IS the proper way to make a Curry

I know what you mean but I suggest there's no single 'proper' way to make a curry and what you were shown is almost certainly not the BIR approach, which is what this forum is mostly about.

>they shake their heads when I talk about Curry Base

I know people associated with top notch Indian restaurants, both in this country and in India - not your typical BIRs. My understanding is that they use base sauces much of the time. Perhaps your chap stands out and, if his curries are even better for it, then great, i.e. if his restaurant really does cook from scratch and he has the time to do it, before customers get tired of waiting.

>they use all their own ground Spices

They would say that, wouldn't they!

>Curry Base is for speed and convenience NOT quality

I partly agree with you. My best curries, in absolute terms, are still those made from scratch, using recipes from Madhur Jaffrey et al. But they are not BIR curries. That's the difference. BIR curries may not be as good but I still like them, hence my interest in this forum.

>They would say that, wouldn't they!< Yes George they actuelly do  They showed us the still warm seeds ready to grind also gave us the name and address of the place of where they buy their seeds ,Amit the owner is very passionate about the food his Restaurant produces and he gets a buz from helping people with any questions on cooking, he is a very genuine guy.

> My best curries, in absolute terms, are still those made from scratch, using recipes from Madhur Jaffrey et al. But they are not BIR curries. <

Yes George ,Your 'best' Curries are the ones you made from scratch , and what we had was not what you would normaly get from your usual ( although still very tastey ) Restaurant or T/A, They used fresh Garlic not paste fresh Ginger not paste ,fresh Tomatoes not Puree their own fresh ground Spices , all this put their Curry way above any Restaurant / T/A i have visited and thats a fair few  ;D
Hope you continue to enjoy your BIR Curries George and so will I  ;D but when I make one at home It will be a proper Curry.

Quote from: Cory Ander on August 09, 2009, 12:34 PM
You've only got to look at their menu (e.g. Baby Squid, Rabbit Varuval, Organic Black Cod, Achari Venison, Sea Bass Fillet, etc, etc, and NO Madras, Phal, Jalfrezi, Dhansak, Patia, Dopiaza, Kashmiri, Ceylon, Korma, Passanda, etc) to realise that this is a very upmarket Indian restaurant and not typical of you run-of-the-mill BIR.

It probably isn't too surprising that they don't use traditional BIR cooking methods...for better or for worse...depending on your personal preference, of course....

I think their prices probably reflect this too (being perhaps twice what you might pay for a run-of-the-mill BIR dish).

Hi CA ,
      Yes a very upmarket Restaurant ,Vindaloo is listed under ' old favourites '   on their menu and they will cook anything the customer asks for but yes ,they do 'specialise '.The BIG thing for me was the not using a pre made base sauce and the flavour of the finished Curry like I have never tasted from any other Restaurant or T/A ,to produce a 'fresh' Curry base from 'fresh' ingredients for each individual Curry has got to be a winner and the proof of the pudding was definitely in the eating 
This method would also enable them to make a individual base sauce to suit the individual meal and not 1 spoon Chili powder = Madras , 2 = Vindaloo ,3 = Phal etc like you no doubt would find in a T/A.I am definitely sold on the quality of individually made base sauce over 3ltrs of 'kept in the freezer' sauce ,it was ok until I tried the 'real deal '

Quote from: JerryM on August 09, 2009, 09:51 AM
emin-j,

well pleased u all had a real good day.

surprised they had black salt (more pink than black). i'd put my recent purchase in the bottom draw but will now get it back out as i've not tried it yet.

it matters not to me but the "no base" does not sit well at all - just on the practical front. i'm not saying the make from scratch won't produce a top notch result -i know that's not the case as i've made from scratch before myself. i just don't see how it would work in a busy restaurant unless there are a lot of staff. for example if 4 people order different dishes do they make a 4 portion base and then split it.

anyhow as i say it matters little to me as i have no intention of not using base. it's the beauty of it for me - in simple terms - make big base pot/lot's of effort then make each dish/little effort.

main reason for the post was did u spot anything else that was not as u'd have expected.
[/quote
Hi JerryM
        Yes the Restaurant have four Chef's permanently cooking and can produce meals very quickly.I to was a little disappointed not to see a big pot of base on the side of the hob but after watching the cooking of the CTM my Curry cooking practices have been taken up a level .The ingredients used to ' create ' what eventually becomes the sauce are basically the same as you would use making a Base Sauce, BUT, this sauce is created using all FRESH ingredients no pastes here ! Green Chillies/Ginger/Garlic all their Spices are what they grind themselves,how,by using all these fresh ingredients not produce the best possible tasting Curry ? Curry Base is for Speed and Convenience NOT quality . Just think about when you make your Curry from a freshly made base - always better than the ones that follow I'v found.

Quote from: George on August 09, 2009, 09:42 AM

Quote from: joshallen2k on August 09, 2009, 12:47 AM
On the curry side of things, it seems to me that he gave a "home version" of the lesson. I would have thought that a base sauce would be a must, whether they are a takeaway, or a sit-down, whatever.

I agree. I'm sorry to say I fear the lessons were dumbed-down an completely modified for the purpose of showing the visitors anything except the real thing. That's why I suggested in another thread that before agreeing to pay much money for a lesson, it seems almost essential to draw up a contract or sound understanding of some sort.

Take the CTM - I guess if it tasted great (as good or better than the normal restaurant output), then who cares whether a different recipe/approach was used. Did these dishes taste the same as the normal restaurant output?

Hi George ,
          What we were shown IS the proper way to make a Curry ,we have a family friend who is Indian and he and his family are well into their cooking and are well pleased to see how passionate I have become about Indian food ,but they shake their heads when I talk about Curry Base ( as in making a potfull for future use )now I understand what they meant.
We made the Curry Base from fresh ingredients at the start of the Curry gradually building on it to produce a fantastic tasting Curry ,this is a superior quality Indian Restaurant and they use all their own ground Spices and fresh Ginger/Chilies/Garlic .The owner Amit is so passionate about the food they produce he will answer any questions and is so pleased to see people showing interest ,a really nice genuine guy.
Curry Base is for speed and convenience NOT quality.

Quote from: Cory Ander on August 09, 2009, 07:53 AM
Hi Emin, glad to hear you enjoyed it 

Please would you confirm the naan recipe and how they made and inserted the Peshwari filling?

Thanks,

Hi CA,
     I will be receiving all the recipes soon but regarding the Naan - The Chef made a small Orange sized ball of dough using plain flour then rolled the ball in Coconut then made a hole in the middle of the ball and poured in some ground nuts then rolled the dough into a plate sized piece then threw it about a bit  ad placed it in the Tandoor.