Quote from: JerryM on August 13, 2009, 09:39 AM
emin-j,

i gave this my best shot. for me the principle is the ultimate dream - produce restaurant quality on the spur of the moment. currently i have to think a week ahead and make base to fit in.

i think the "fine" cutting is critical and something i was unable to do well enough.

i measured out the ingredients which gave the following recipe (based on x4):

oil 120ml (i used 4 tbsp for 1st go and 6 tbsp on 2nd go)
3/4 bowl onion 170g (about 12 tbsp)
3/4 bowl tomato 240g (about 12 tbsp)
ginger 4 tbsp/green chilli 3 tbsp (about 20g in total)
garlic 7 tbsp (~60g)
chilli 2 tsp
salt 1 tsp
spice mix 1 tbsp
water 600ml
fresh coriander 1 tbsp

1st i tried to make a 1 off portion using the restaurant method but all at my normal high heat cooking temp. total disaster - burnt. cooked in ~10mins

i then realised that my pan was big enough afterall and decided to cook the 3 off remaining portions in 1 off go. i changed the method slightly. ginger and green chill fried in oil 1st before onion. after onion starting to brown temp turned down low. kept low until spice added and heat up high. i also added 1 tsp of tom puree with the spice.

this 3 off batch was to me more like a 1 off portion (albeit slightly larger than my norm 200ml finished).

this dish was OK - it was eaten up. the ginger was out of balance for me. the onion was cooked fine and had a hint of caramelised and a sort of texture. i think Chillihead has referred to similar in using a collander as opposed to blending when making a base.

i am sure with time u could better perfect this method. clearly the restaurant has already done so. for me i'm not sold on it for the following reasons:

1) i can't get the "fine" chopping which is critical without spending an excessive amount of time
2) my curries using base already taste as good as i need and this method would require a step backward which the family are not happy with
3) i'm still not convinced that the ability to fine tune a base with small amounts of ingredients - say coconut block is realistic and therefore "the 20 min base" can never be as good on the taste front (accurately enough to maintain consistency).
4) i can see how this dish/base can be cooked in under 20 mins. this is too long for my home needs when i have different orders to meet from the family. i currently often make 3 to 4 different dishes on a night each in under 5mins ea. the key point is i can sit with the family and not feel i'm a slave to the stove.

well worth a try - i really enjoyed giving it a go. i am sure this method is crackable. i'm just not in for the journey.

pics
ingredients, burnt 1 st go, 3 off portion (to follow)

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii262/jerrym07/20%20Min%20Base/20minbase002.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii262/jerrym07/20%20Min%20Base/20minbase003.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii262/jerrym07/20%20Min%20Base/20minbase004.jpg

Good effort JerryM
I'm sure you are dead right about the size of the chopped Onions ,I would say that ' minced ' was more like it as there was no sign of any pieces of Onion in the finished Curry.
The Photo of your ingredients look very similar to the Chef's ( except the onion    )I think your list of ingredients look good too.I think it so important to make sure the Onions/Tomato/Garlic/Ginger are worked long enough to become a paste ,this is what gives the Curry the smooth sauce.
Shame it wasn't so successful this time but you were on the right track.
I am hopefully going to give it a go on Saturday so we'll see what happens  still waiting for the recipes tho  :

Quote from: emin-j on August 11, 2009, 08:24 PM

Quote from: JerryM on August 11, 2009, 09:14 AM
emin-j,

this post by Kid Curry should be of interest https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3098.0.

the big problem i had at the time was getting the onions to cook through. nowadays i might be able to do it ok. given u're comment on cooking time the chef must cook on high heat - can u give more details on how he cooked the dish.

the other thing stopping me from this route is the ability to add small quantities of various ingredients (coconut block for example) without them becoming too small to maintain accuracy hence chucking the base out of balance. the base i make most of the time is 7 portions so interestingly not that different in volume terms (assuming they always cook a 4 portion "10 min base" then split).

Hi JerryM
               I really do believe every main course that is ordered is made from scratch, each Curry having it's own base ,mind you I suppose if the Chef had orders for 4 CTM he would make them together  the CTM he cooked for us was about a 3 - 4 portion Curry purely because along with the other two main courses he cooked these meals were to be shared between the 10 of us in the cooking class.
Yes they would need to cook on high heat for speed to keep up with demand the owner did say he was cooking real slooow for our benefit ( you would have loved the flames on the second main course he cooked 
This is how the CTM cooking went. ( ** this made about 3-4 portions ** )
The Chef put 2 large Chef's spoons of fresh vegetable oil in a aluminium frying pan ( his spoon is bigger than mine  .
He then placed about 3/4 of a cereal bowl of very fine chopped Onions in the pan
these were fried until caramelised and just started to brown.
He then placed about the same amount of fine chopped fresh Tomatoes ( not peeled or deseeded )in the pan and continued to fry until this was breaking down into a pulp this needed plenty of action with the spoon squashing it all about.
He then put in a heaped Chef's spoon of fresh mixed Green Chillies and fresh Ginger ( chopped fine inc seeds )sorry I don't know the ratio off Chillies to Ginger it was made up in a small icecream tub hopefully when I get the recipes I can be more helpful.
Then a heaped Chef's spoon of fresh finely chopped Garlic.
He continued to fry for about 3-4 mins ( guess ).
He then placed his spoon in the frying pan and placed in the spoon - about 2 teaspoons Chili Powder ,teaspoon ? of Salt ,about a tablespoon of spice mix or their own make Garam Masala ( sorry for being a bit vague but I expected to be given the recipes at the end of the cooking class and not have to wait for them or I would have taken notes  :-[ )
He then stirred the contents of the spoon into the Curry for 1-2 mins then added about 1/2 - 3/4 of a pint of water ,this now had become the sauce ( base )he then took the cooked Chicken from the Tandoor broke the Chicken into smaller pieces and placed in the Curry ,stirred for a short time then added a good squirt of single cream and about a tablespoon of fresh Coriander leaves , stir in and ready to serve.
Sorry for not being more accurate at the moment,I think the important bit is the Fresh Onion/Tomatoe/Ginger/Chili/Garlic part which is quite accurate you could probably add you usual Spices to that to complete your Curry ,I hope the recipes turn up soon 

Quote from: George on August 12, 2009, 11:57 PM

QuoteThis is how the CTM cooking went. ( ** this made about 3-4 portions ** )

I must say your outline recipe reminds me of my very early attempts at cooking some kind of very basic curry, before I'd even got as far as finding The Curry Secret book or the first Pat Chapman publications. Unless you've missed out some key ingredients like cream, coconut and/or one or two other things usually found in CTM, it doesn't strike me as like any CTM I've ever tasted or made.

Well spotted George ,The Chef added a good squirt  of single cream when he added the Chicken .oops !

Quote from: JerryM on August 12, 2009, 10:18 AM

Quote from: emin-j on August 11, 2009, 08:24 PM
you would have loved the flames on the second main course he cooked 

u know me too well. just out of interest what was the 2nd main.

thanks for the excellent instructions. i have some time today and will give it a go - i'll make my std madras as i know the taste best.

i bet they have a machine for chopping the onions fine.

Hi JerryM
                2nd main was Prawn Chettinad . Good luck with the Curry , like you I haven't had much luck with Onions but after seeing how small they were chopped and there was no ' bits ' of Onion in the finished Curry I know I have some work to do  :

Quote from: chriswg on August 12, 2009, 08:33 AM
Hi Emin

Sounds like you had an amazing time. Have you tried replicating this recipe since you got home? Did it work?

I've got a lesson with a local BIR tomorrow so it will be interesting to see the differences between an upmarket restaurant and a local TA.

Hi chriswg
                It was a great day ,the owner Amit was the perfect host ,I'm sure you will have a good day too .Take a pad and pen with you , you wont remember half of what goes on  : Saturday is my Curry day 

Quote from: matt3333 on August 11, 2009, 12:18 PM
Hi emin-j
Sorry to ask for more info but did you notice whether the tomatoes were skinned and deseeded, and had the chillies been deseeded as I guess they could add some unwanted heat.
Thanks

Hi matt3333 ,
            Tomatoes not skinned or deseeded Chillies not deseeded but all was very finely chopped.

Quote from: JerryM on August 11, 2009, 09:14 AM
emin-j,

this post by Kid Curry should be of interest https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3098.0.

the big problem i had at the time was getting the onions to cook through. nowadays i might be able to do it ok. given u're comment on cooking time the chef must cook on high heat - can u give more details on how he cooked the dish.

the other thing stopping me from this route is the ability to add small quantities of various ingredients (coconut block for example) without them becoming too small to maintain accuracy hence chucking the base out of balance. the base i make most of the time is 7 portions so interestingly not that different in volume terms (assuming they always cook a 4 portion "10 min base" then split).

Hi JerryM
               I really do believe every main course that is ordered is made from scratch, each Curry having it's own base ,mind you I suppose if the Chef had orders for 4 CTM he would make them together  the CTM he cooked for us was about a 3 - 4 portion Curry purely because along with the other two main courses he cooked these meals were to be shared between the 10 of us in the cooking class.
Yes they would need to cook on high heat for speed to keep up with demand the owner did say he was cooking real slooow for our benefit ( you would have loved the flames on the second main course he cooked 
This is how the CTM cooking went. ( ** this made about 3-4 portions ** )
The Chef put 2 large Chef's spoons of fresh vegetable oil in a aluminium frying pan ( his spoon is bigger than mine  .
He then placed about 3/4 of a cereal bowl of very fine chopped Onions in the pan
these were fried until caramelised and just started to brown.
He then placed about the same amount of fine chopped fresh Tomatoes ( not peeled or deseeded )in the pan and continued to fry until this was breaking down into a pulp this needed plenty of action with the spoon squashing it all about.
He then put in a heaped Chef's spoon of fresh mixed Green Chillies and fresh Ginger ( chopped fine inc seeds )sorry I don't know the ratio off Chillies to Ginger it was made up in a small icecream tub hopefully when I get the recipes I can be more helpful.
Then a heaped Chef's spoon of fresh finely chopped Garlic.
He continued to fry for about 3-4 mins ( guess ).
He then placed his spoon in the frying pan and placed in the spoon - about 2 teaspoons Chili Powder ,teaspoon ? of Salt ,about a tablespoon of spice mix or their own make Garam Masala ( sorry for being a bit vague but I expected to be given the recipes at the end of the cooking class and not have to wait for them or I would have taken notes  :-[ )
He then stirred the contents of the spoon into the Curry for 1-2 mins then added about 1/2 - 3/4 of a pint of water ,this now had become the sauce ( base )he then took the cooked Chicken from the Tandoor broke the Chicken into smaller pieces and placed in the Curry ,stirred for a short time then added about a tablespoon of fresh Coriander leaves , stir in and ready to serve.
Sorry for not being more accurate at the moment,I think the important bit is the Fresh Onion/Tomatoe/Ginger/Chili/Garlic part which is quite accurate you could probably add you usual Spices to that to complete your Curry ,I hope the recipes turn up soon 

Quote from: joshallen2k on August 09, 2009, 08:32 PM

QuoteNice one joshallen2k  If you can find a Restaurant that will make you a Chicken Curry from scratch using all fresh ingredients you might be surprised to find there is Curry life outside of traditional BIR 

Anything's possible! I wish it works out to be true, I really do. I just think that the "taste" that has made the old-school BIRs a British institution since the 70's, is more likely to be down the road Haldi is on, with the reused oil.

I'm sure that using fresh, quality ingredients, and without a base - would yield great tasting results... but would the taste be there?

Maybe there's another "taste" that you get from scratch/fresh cooking, that satisfies the palate in a similar (or better) way, but the only way to test that would be to use the recipes.

Eagerly awaiting the recipes 

Hi joshallen2k
                    < I'm sure that using fresh, quality ingredients, and without a base >

That was the beauty of making the base from scratch and gradually building on the base to a completed CTM .By using all fresh chopped ingredients and creating a 'pulp'by slowly mashing it all together using the back of his Chef's spoon can you imagine all the natural flavours from the juices released in that base  other than the spices he added about half a pint of water and there was the base ,he then went on to add the precooked Chicken ,single Cream ,and fresh Coriander.

Quote from: qprbob on August 09, 2009, 11:53 PM
Glad you had a good day Emin. I too think some of the best curries I have eaten are the traditional type. Having said that, I do hanker after a BIR curry , like that of the late seventies - eighties. I will always still make traditional Indian food as well. Looking forward to the recipes.

Hi qprbob,funny you should mention the quality Curries in the 70s and 80s I was only thinking of that myself at work today and have seen it mentioned many times on the forum.
Could it be possible that back then Curries were cooked from 'scratch' and as Indian cooking grew in popularity T/A realised that if they were going to keep up with demand they would have to prepare for the rush in advance and the ' Curry Base ' was born , I dunno.
The CTM we had on Saturday was cooked from scratch the base being made up of chopped Onions,chopped fresh Tomatoes,chopped fresh Ginger,chopped fresh Garlic and Green Chillies ,can you imagine the flavours in that base from all the natural liquids that came from those ingredients  the finished Curry tasted so fresh and you could taste all the flavours with a balance that was just right

Quote from: JerryM on August 10, 2009, 08:44 AM
emin-j,

clearly a real big and interesting topic.

just so i can get my head round it. if 4 different mains orders come in do they make 4 dishes from scratch or does the "10 min base" reach a point when they split it into 4 portions and then cook/finish the different dishes.

Hi JerryM,
         I can only guess really as I didn't ask that particular question ,but there are four full time Chef's plus a team who prepare for the Chef's , I did ask about turnaround for meals and Amit the owner said most customers have a starter which is quick to prepare and by the time they have finished their starter their main course will be ready,Amit also said with a smile that the speed the Chef cooked the CTM in our cooking lesson was very slow compared to a busy night in the restaurant and was only for our benefit.