Here are some tips about the hot topic of curry powders etc.  In base mixes it is not really that important which powder or masala you use.  If you have a favorite curry house then find the nearest Asian shop and ask them if the supply the restaurants.  If they answer yes ask them which ones.  Then look on the racks for the large packs of spices (whole and powder), this will give you a clue to what brand(s) and what particular spices are being used.  This equally applies to the jars of pastes and pickles.

When you buy check for two things; the use by date (very important, don't buy if it is out of date within 6 months).  If it is powder, hold the bag sides and rub the powder inside between your fingers, if it feels gritty leave it alone and try other bags.  The quality of spice powders varies tremendously; it may have TRS on the bag but the origins of its content may be from many sources.  You may recall that there was a very big scare over the carcinogenic Red Sudan dye that had been put in some Paprikas and chilli powders to make it look redder, TRS was one of the sufferers of this scam.

Look at the colours of the spices. If say all the cumin powder looks the same colour then chances are it is from the same batch and the shop has a reasonable turnover.  However, as is often the case, you will see variations in colour with cumin and  this is because of age and the origins, if you see one that is paler than the other leave it alone.  This will come with experience.

Check the price labels.  My supplier is notorious for having different prices on the same products (his kids are usually at fault because they think it is a game!).  Prices do go up and down and the Asian grocer is not interested in keeping everything the same.  But price can give you an indication of age sometimes.

Garam Masalas  and Curry Powders.  To me I would rather make my own because they are my signature in some of the more individual dishes we make.  There are thousands of variations of the basic masala, mostly governed by the region of Asia they originate from.  A good general purpose masala I use from time to time is the one you find in Pat Chapman's books, and for that matter his curry powder is quite good too.  I use these with slight a modifications to make my simple Punjabi Gosht (Lamb) which is one of our more popular requests.

Pastes.  Well this can be a very purist subject; some say they would never use a OTS (off the shelf) product and they always make there own.  Quite frankly I use pastes regularly and I have my long time favorite (Ferns) which a lot of restaurants and Asian home cooks use as it is the closest you will get to middle India curries (it is made in Mumbai by Mrs Fernadez).  I always use Simtom Tikka Paste for CTMs and sometimes Jalfrezis as it is pointless making my own as this is simply the best for these dishes.  I do make my own however for Tikkas and Tandoori style, as they are the best in my humble opinion.

Pickles.  Try adding some pickles or chutneys to your dishes as you cook them, maybe instead of a masala.  The BIRs do!  I use some Ferns Chilli Pickle for my Madras dishes as it adds a very subtle hot and slight sweet and sour flavour. 

Vinegars, lime and lemon juices have a special place in Asian cooking. fresh tomatoes have a similar effect.  With the exception of Vinegar in most cases, when these are added to the final stages of the citric acid reacts chemically with the spices and creates that final flavour.

I think that is enough to kick off this topic.  This is a big area to cover so I am sure there will be plenty of posts.

Happy Cooking
C P

I have started this topic as means to keep the subject matter focused rather than buried ad hoc in other topics/recipes.  The idea is that all of us from newbies to pros can provide or obtain information that encompass the Asian cooking processes, so please keep the questions and other postings in this area only.  If it becomes popular then it can be made sticky by the good guys and gals who run this site, and thereby easier to navigate to.

Some examples of content are, techniques for making and using curry powders, pastes and masalas; cooking techniques for each part of the processes; using domestic equipment to get dishes like the BIRs do.  So it is not a place for recipes, but more of a 'How do I ....?, or 'When do I ....'? Please don't confine your posts solely to BIR cooking as you will find the processes used in traditional cooking work very well and sometimes much better for domestic cooking.

Please try and keep the posts short with a clear subject title or respond specifically to another post if you can.  Keep to one question, but feel free to post as many as you like.  Remember that nearly everyone who cracks the 'rajvinci code of BIR cooking' wants to share so don't be shy; go ahead and tell us all about the method you used.

Personally I am happy to share anything I have as long as I feel that my knowledge and expertise is not being exploited for the purpose of someone's book  , and I am sure that also goes for a lot of other Forum members.  As I have said before am not a Guru; yes I have turned professional and I do make a many different types of 'curries' but most of the knowledge is in the head.  I only type out a few of my own recipes, but have many others that I have been given or picked up from various sources, that I keep in my document library.  On this subject area, you may or not be aware that there are no copyright laws covering recipes, however plagiarism can be challenged in court if it is done for profit, or cheating (in exams).  If I post a recipe I will mark it as from another source if possible but I may not be able to identify the source itself.

Hi George, I have embedded my responses in colour below

Quote from: George on September 29, 2006, 08:41 AM
CP

Yes, what a great post! Before I try the sauce, could you please clarify the following points:

>...good fortune to work in one of our local high class Indian restaurants

Was that a high class BIR or more the 'authentic' style closer to 'proper' Indian cooking, like offered by 'The Red Fort' and 'Tamarind'in London, for example? I suspect they use base sauces of some description, too.

Red Fort: http://www.london-eating.co.uk/78.htm

Tamarind: http://www.london-eating.co.uk/152.htm

Sorry but we are talking Isle of Wight here not London    Anyway I do know the restaurants you refer to, but they are not your average High Street jobbies and their whole approach and methods are quite different. 

>There are no specific measurements as such, so experimentation
>is recommended

Understood, but a few more pointers would be great, namely what is the approx. weight of ginger root, please? In most base recipes, the weight and volume of ginger and garlic are about the same. Does that apply here?

I use about 4 to 5 ounces of unpeeled coarsely chopped Ginger, but you could use equal weights to the Garlic.  What you must aim for is what initially appears to be a fairly bland sauce, albeit very smelly; Too much Ginger at this stage could be overpowering.

>it is not viable or economic to make a smaller batch

I will try! Even though you may be right. I hope it will be viable and certainly more economic than investing in so many onions and other ingredients. These days, I always make a 2 onion variant of the MarkJ 35 onion base sauce, with everything simply pro-rata'd down. It tastes so damn good, that I can't be losing much by not sticking with 35 onions.

What I do is freeze in 1kg boxes for the business and in small 1/4 litre pots for home use.  This small amount will make a couple of good portions.

>Garlic   Four to five whole heads, core removed and unpeeled
>Ginger   One large root unpeeled, washed, and coarsely chopped

This must work, or you wouldn't have written it, presumably. But I have never seen any other recipe where garlic, ginger and onion(?) 'skins' go through to a final dish, albeit in puree form.  Carrots can be scrubbed, I guess, to get rid of most dirt.

The onions have to be peeled (sorry) because you have to check they are not rotten.  I use large Columbian Onions for labour saving, they are sweet and not too fiery.  However the BIRs prefer English or Polish because they are more fiery. The rest can be left whole with skins on (wash the leeks well though).  I put all my result through a Magimix and sometimes also my smoothie blender!

Thanks again
Regards
George

You are very welcome

Happy cooking
C P

Quote from: currychris on September 30, 2006, 05:53 PM
Small World!......I will ask next time I am in This and That. Just as a matter of interest, when did This and That first open?

Hi Chris, It is a small world, but curry unites us!  I came back from the Middle East (after 2 years) in Jan 83 and it had been opened for nearly a year then.  As soon as I returned I was dragged off to it by my mates/colleagues at work.  Oh heaven, I still dream about those wonderful curries.  Have you tried the sheep's trotters?  Nah! don't bother its awful, but do they still do the Shab Deg on Fridays?  I just remembered another couple of dishes they did; Channa (Chickpea) with a secret recipe Tamarind sauce, and simple vegetable fried and steamed in Panch Phoran mix.  Sometimes that was all I would it with some of the crispy Rotis.

Ah well happy days.  If I ever get back to Manchester that is will be where I heading.  I thought they had knocked all that down after the IRA bombing.

Cheers
C P

Absolutely right CC!  I like your point about the 'flavour of the day' because, as with any market, it is all about creating something new, and in a lot of cases its not new just a variation on an old theme.  When I first started out professionally some of customers complained that my meals were not the same each time; near but not exact.  I explained to them that is they were always exactly the same, I would not enjoy the cooking and they would get bored and drift elsewhere,  I still retain those customers!!!  I just posted a review about a new restaurant in Salisbury that everyone is raving about as nouveau contemporary  Asian cuisine.  With no offence to their excellent restaurant, it is not really new as this was a very popular style in a lot of Manchester and London restaurants back in the 60s and early 70s, i.e. real Indian influenced by Gujarati style.

This why I you and the other 'old pros' I note often reply in a similar vein to newbie requests.  This is an exciting adventure, never boring and the end results are wonderful when you get it right.  I would say it is impossible to replicate the cuisine of your local restaurant because the averge domestic cook doesn't have the base recipe , the cooking facilities, and means to work in large volumes.

As to Ashes' reply on the origins of wine Wickpedia is probably right; it's my humour I guess as a fan of 'Goodness Gracious Me' everything was inventend or made by Indians if you get my drift.

Anyway, as always it is good to have these exchanges as it clarifies to all that this is not a precise art.

Happy Cooking
C P

I often Nuke my papads CC, but not the poppadums as they tend to burn very easy (the original mix is too dry)

Happy Cooking
C P

Quote from: currychris on September 30, 2006, 11:22 AM

Quote from: oscar on September 11, 2006, 03:45 AM
i used to use an Indian cafe type place on bury new road in manchester. i remember most of the meats in the Curries were on the bone. far tastier

Have you tried any of the Pakistani cafes in the Shudehill area of Manchester?. 'This and That' is a great place on Soap Street (but finding it is like looking for a needle in a haystack). It looks a dump from the outside, it's been there years (I've been going for 15), and the curries are absolutely fantastic. I always have 'rice and three' which is a big portion of rice and three curries of your choice.... for about ?3.50. I am getting hungry just thinking about it. Al Faizal is also a good cafe in the same area. Anyone familiar with them?

I good Coincidence Chris, because these were the main ones I was referring to.  I used to go to the 'This and That' on Soap St, from when it first opened and I became very good friends with its original owner/founder who was called Din Feroz who hailed from the Punjab (got moved to Pakistan when the split came).  He was in a bad way after his wife dies suddenly, so his family persuaded him to have a go in the cafe biz.  He had never cooked before so he had to learn everything about traditional home cooking from his female relatives.  His signature dishes were Shab Degh and Bhindi Gosht (more on them later), and before sold up to his relatives to set up a new restaurant in Chester he have me his treasured secret recipe for Shab degh.  I moved South at the same time and we lost touch.  So if he is back there perhaps you can give him my regards.  I used to work in the Arndale office block for ICL, so he knows me as computer Jon.

Now Bhindi Gosht is lamb with Okra cooked over night, but I don't have his recipe.  Shab Degh is one of the most prized Northen Indian dishes originally made for the Mogul Kings.  The name literally means cooked overnight.  It is cooked in a stone pot that is buried in hot coals under the ground over night.  It comprises small white turnips (yes turnips!) lamb kofta balls and very thin lamb chops (called breakfast chops) all cooked in a rich but thin gravy.  The final touch in the last few minutes of cooking which gives the dish its unique flavour is a special dry masala which is stirred in.  Din gave me a bottle of this masala but didn't know the recipe as he got it from his Dad who was spice merchant in Karachi.  If you still go to this Cafe Chris perhaps you could ask them if they now have the recipe.  I f you are successful I will post the Shab Degh recipe on this forum.  I think the masala was made from the following whole spices that are coarsely ground:- White Cumin, Ajwain, Fennel, Green Cardamom.  The colour of the masala when ground is a pale green, and it is very pungent. 

Anyway, I must go back to the slave kitchen to make another batch of 50 or so curries (CTM (Original recipe) and Jalfrezi (my recipe). 

As always I try to lob in a bit of trivia; the literal interpretation of Jalfrezi is basically what we call Bubble & Squeak, i.e. a fry up of leftovers.  Balti means bucket, and my wife had her meals served from one when she taught in Pakistan!

Happy Cooking
C P

This is something I put together many many years ago and has been my stalwart in our kitchen.  It goes into most of the dishes we make, and it is what makes our foods distinctive, e.g. our signature.  Technically it is a base and you can playaround with variations without really doing a lot of damage.  The base comprises the spice mix, finely onions, and coarsely chopped garlic, finely chopped Ginger.

Bargar is the term used for describing the frying of spices to bring out their intense flavours (as an alternative to roasting), it is also safer than roasting because you can stop the process almost instantly so the spices will not burn.  Roasting takes a lot of practice, and often goes wrong even for me!!! The English term for Bargar (Barghar) is Tempering.

Anyway what we are doing here is making a very concentrated base, in a manner similar to to the really up market BIRs.  You can make it in large batches or just enough for one dish.

In its basic form it comrises five types of whole spices but you can add more types or remove spice if you wish. 

The principal group & quantity of spices for a small batch are, Green Cardamoms (5), Cassia bark or Cinnamon stick 3 inch, Cloves (5), whole Black Pepper (5), Bay leaves (2). You will also need 1 large Onion, 5 cloves of Garlic, and about one ounce of unpeeled Ginger, 5 coarsely chopped green chillis.

You can also add whole fenugreek seeds, White or Black Cumin (Zeera/Jeera) but not both, Black Mustard Seeds, Asafoetida (Hing).  Measure are about 1 teaspoon of any spice except Hing which is about a quarter of a teaspoon.

Never add the whole lot mentioned as this will be a disaster.  I keep to a simple rule and that is only use a maximum of five types, and of course you must be confident that you know what spices will go together!  Like roasting a mixture of spices you never start off with the whole lot because each spice has different roasting/release time.

Chop onions and Garlic but keep them separate.  Heat some butter Ghee in a Wok or small pan (enough to cover the spices) until it smokes.  Why use butter Ghee? It has a higher cooking temperature.  Add all the spices except the Bay leaves. NOTE:  Take extreme care as the cloves and cardamoms will explode so have a lid ready to cover.  Wait for the Cardamoms to turn a pale grey colour and put in the Bay leaves.  When they turn light brown add the chopped Garlic, stir fry for about a few seconds (don't let the garlic brown) and then add the finely chopped onions, Ginger, and Chillis.  Stir fry until the onions just start to catch (turn brown at the edges), then reduce the heat to low and sweat the whole mixture until it becomes translucent, but don't let it burn so keep stirring occasionally.

The whole process should only take about 15 minutes for a small batch.  As soon as it is cooked remove from the heat.  It will keep for about five days in the fridge.  You can freeze it but be aware that Garlic changes its chemical constitution when frozen and releases a bitter acid when defrosted.

When I am making up a dish (or many) I just add a dollop or more depending on how intense I want the flavours or chilli heat.  Remember that you may need to adjust other amounts spices, Onions etc., if you use them in the dish you are making.  I use this in my Madras style dishes.

I hope this makes sense.  If you have any queries you know ho to reach me.

Happy Cooking
C P

CC is mostly correct. No Asian chef as far as I am aware uses a Flambe technique as a standard process, they do occasionally flash off Pasanda, which should have a red wine content (did you know that wine is said to have originated in India?).  However, CC is also correct in a sense that flaming a dish to incinerate it is also not done, but all Asian chefs (Chinese & Thai also) do allow the fat/steam mixture to catch fire because it is difficult to stop it and also it does impart that special flavour.  The food itself does not catch fire but the superheated oil/gas mixture above it does and then atomises over the Kharai/pan/Wok and some of it falls back in to the pan again to impart that fast food flavour.  Whilst on the subject, a lot of BIRs use cast iron or rolled steel (like wok steel) frying pans for cooking the individual portions.  I have a great rolled steel one (from India) that is about 12 inches diameter with a very long steel handle.  I always use this for individual portion fast cooking.

Happy Cooking
C P

I think Richard has put this subject difficulty very well.  My advice is don't bother,  unless you have a good well trained friend who knows how to make them; a large smooth rock; and 10 Kilowatt sun lamp, lots of patience, and of course sufficient funds to cover the electricity bill.  Sorry just my humour.  I do have contacts/friends in the biz, and they all say the same.  Chapatis are difficult enough and it takes a lot of training and skill to get it right.

Fry Poppadums and grill Papads

Happy Cooking
C P