Hi All ,
        I think most of us believe that the Tomato Puree that BIR Chef's use is a watered down version and when I watched my Curry being made at the T/A it was a much thinner consistency than I use ' out of the tube ' , what are the chances of them actually using Tomato Ketchup ? It looks the same and is sweeter than Puree , just a thought  :

Quote from: Admin on November 04, 2009, 12:06 PM
emin-j I am Glad the Admin's Base is working for you.

I moved onto the Ashoka base but perhaps its time to retry this one again.

I think subtle spicing is the key, the issue is that working with spices is an art form and take years to undertand how to release them properly.  There are just so many variables when using spices thats its easy to get things wrong.

How many time have you made the exact same curry and one time its amazing and the next rubbish?  This is down to variables, heat, spicing, the way ingrediants are chopped, how much water you add etc.

Stew

Admin , Yes love the simple ingredients and method of this one and the Madras that followed was fantastic  ;D Going back to the variables in Spicing terms , I cant quite understand how it appears  the Chef's I have watched seem to put a LOT more Spice ( using the Chef's spoon it looks like 3 tsp of each  ) into a single serving than I ever do and more than most of the recipes on the forum ! The sNs recipe I currently use is only 1/2 a tsp of some of the Spices and I have never seen a Chef pick up that amount on his spoon 

Quote from: Secret Santa on November 02, 2009, 08:49 PM

Quote from: emin-j on November 02, 2009, 08:05 PM
try tasting boiled Onions then taste fried Onions - no contest 

True, but no BIR is going to fry their base onions, there's just too many. They boil them.

True Secret Santa , I suppose it's more caramelize than fry , maybe that by caramelizing the Onions first we can get that much closer to the BIR taste which they achieve by boiling in water ( with oil added ) for God knows how long and the base is ' on the heat ' all the hours the T/A is open which would probably be impractical for the home Curry cook.
The Admin's New Base Sauce ( with fried / caramelized Onions ) was taken from a Recipe used at a Indian Restaurant in Bradford.

Quote from: chriswg on November 02, 2009, 05:41 PM
Hi Mikka

Have you tried making a base starting with frying the onions before boiling them? I find this caramelisation gives a much sweeter taste to the base which might be what you are looking for.

This is just how Admins new Base is started ( frying Onions ) , try tasting boiled Onions then taste fried Onions - no contest 

Quote from: JerryM on November 02, 2009, 07:24 AM
emin-j,

i very much agree. if u're making something day in day out u ain't going to be elaborate if it don't need it.

other than base was there anything else that jumped out from watching the web cams. i'm particularly interested in the ingredients. i still keep the pic of maliks spice tray on my wall. it's the "extra" things that seems to be used that i've never been able to fathom.

Didn't notice anything out of the ordinary JerryM but it  was interesting watching the Base Sauce being made at the East Indian T/A , some whole Spices and what looked like Garlic Cloves fried in a little oil then some ground Spices then just topped up with Onions and water and stirred occasionally  this is what re - enforced the thinking behind the ' keep it simple ' idea.
chriswg Right up until this week I would pile in the Spices thinking it would improve the flavour but my last Madras I followed the recipe to the letter with 1/2 tsps of Spice where it said 1/2 tsps  : and it was my best Madras to date . ;D

Hi all ,
I have watched hours of Video footage of Maliks and the East - Indian T/A webcams plus watching my Madras being made at my favourite T/A and have for sometime believed the BIR way is the ' keep it simple ' way , also chriswg's recent posts plus Unclefranks ' cooking from scratch ' posts and Admin's New Base Sauce post https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1894.0  just re enforce the keep it simple is the way to go. I recently made the Admins Base ( very basic ingredients and a simple method ) and made my usual sNs recipe Madras with it and was amazed at the strong flavour from such minimal ingredients  I do believe using a ' flavoured ' oil is a step in the right direction but not to the extent of using oil from KFC's 
Admitidly I don't have the experience of many of the forum members on here but I have made it a bit of a Mission to find Curry perfection ( to my taste  ) for the last couple of years.
All the Base Gravy's I have made have all done the job and some have had allsorts of ingredients but none gave as good a result to the finished Curry as the Admin's Base .

 Made this ' New Base ' today and what a result ! The texture was Silky smooth and the Madras which I made after was sooo rich and what a depth of flavour  I use the sNs Madras recipe  and I tend to go a bit heavy on the Spices compared to the Recipe but today I followed the Recipe to the letter and I couldn't believe how rich the Curry was with just minimal Spices . Probably a drop of water either in the base or when I cook the Madras will make it perfect  ;D Well done Admin 

Jimmy2x that looks Quality   

I think this is the original recipe this base sauce came from - 

Sunday, January 07, 2007 
Mumrez Khan?s Lamb and Spinach Karahi curry
Category: Food and Restaurants
This is the recipe for Mumrez Khan's Lamb and Spinach Karahi curry recipe from Rick Stein's "Food Heroes" series. Mumrez is from the Karachi Restaurant in Neal Street, Bradford,  West Yorkshire.

It has been said that "this is the only curry recipe you'll ever need" ...I must say it is the best curry i have ever made at home, so try it yourself! You won't be disappointed.

The Ingredients

- 250g (9oz) Ghee/Clarified Butter
- 65g (2 1/2oz) Garlic
- 1 tablespoon Red Chilli Powder
- 1 tablespoon Ground Cumin
- 1 tablespoon Paprika
- 550g (1 1/4lb) Onions Chopped
- 50g (2oz) Fresh Ginger, peeled and chopped
- 900g (2lb) Boneless leg or shoulder of Lamb (1? in) cubes
- 120ml (4fl oz) water
- 3 tablespoons Fresh Coriander (chopped)
- 1 tablespoon Ground Turmeric
- 350g (12oz) Fresh Spinach washed with large stalks removed
- 4 medium sized Green Chillies with stalks removed
- ? tablespoon Garam Masala
- 1 x 400g (140z)  Can Chopped Toms
- 1 tablespoon Salt
- 1 tablespoon Ground Coriander
- A pinch of ground cumin and freshly ground black pepper to serve


Method

1. Heat the ghee in a large, heavy based pan. Add the onions and cook over a medium heat, stirring now and then, for 20 minutes until they are soft and a light brown

2. Put the tomatoes, water, ginger and garlic into a liquidizer and blend until smooth.  Remove the fried onions with a slotted spoon, add them to the paste and blend briefly until smooth.

3. Return the puree to the ghee left in the pan and add the lamb and salt. Simmer for 30 minutes, by which time the lamb will be half cooked and the sauce will be well reduced.  Stir in the turmeric, chilli powder, cumin, paprika and ground coriander and continue to cook for 30-45 minutes for shoulder or 45-1 hour for leg, until the lamb is tender, adding a little water now and then if the sauce starts to stick.
4. Meanwhile, put 175g (6oz) of the spinach leaves into a large pan and cook until it has wilted down into the bottom of the pan.  Cook for 1 minute, then transfer to the rinsed out liquidizer and blend to a smooth puree.  Set aside.  Rinse out the liquidiser again and add the green chillies and 2-3 tablespoons of water and blend until smooth.  Set aside.

5. When the lamb is cooked, there should be a layer of ghee floating on the top of the curry.  You can either skim it off or leave it there, whichever you prefer (leave it). Then stir in the spinach puree and the remaining spinach leaves and cook for 2 minutes.

6. Now taste the curry and add as much green chilli puree as you wish, according to how hot you like your curries. Simmer for 2 minutes more.

7. Stir in the fresh coriander and Garam Masala. Transfer the curry to a serving dish and sprinkle with a little more ground cumin and some freshly ground black pepper just before you take it to the table.

Serve with your choice of rice, Naan breads, Poppadoms and whatever else you can cram in.

Mikka and JerryM , I think your both having a mid life Curry Crisis 
After my time in the kitchen of my favourite T/A which is 12 miles away  I watched my Madras being made right in front of my eyes  I believe your over complicating your Curry cooking by adding things like Onion Pastes and Spicy blends of this and that and God knows what your gonna come up with next !
This T/A uses a basic Base Sauce and minimally Spice their Madras plus ' thinned ' Tomato Puree and the Curry is deeelicious 
As already said I think the amount of oil is important to give a smooth sauce but also I believe much of the Spice flavour is suspended in the oil my best Curries have been swimming in oil  but you could allways spoon off really excess oil into a container to be reused in your next Curry or Base Sauce even. I believe we need to think BIR to find ' the taste ' we are searching for and I reckon their priorities would be .
1. Quick to produce
2. Cheap to produce
3. Max flavour per ?
JerryM , you are well practiced at Curry making and no doubt you know how to make a cracking Madras with just the usual ingredients found in most of the Madras recipes on here ! My Madras Curries are easily as good and more often better than any of my local T/A's and close enough to my favourite T/A's taste to believe I just need to ' fine tune '
my technique rather than look for a ' Magic Spice ' that I might be missing 
p.s. saying that, I bought some Tandori Masala Spice on the weekend for the first time and that tastes and smells good enough to eat out of the jar !! mmm I wonder ??  ;D