Sorry, you are quite correct of course.

C P

I know it is West of the City but Southall is the dogs whatsits for me.  I got all my stuff there when I lived in Berkshire and still go there from the Island if we need a major stock refurbishment (an of course some damn good Ruby's)

Happy Cooking
C P

We have already said Hi Chris, but I would also add my compliments on your website.  One of my best mates at work bought a house in Middleton in the late 60 early 70s.  His back yard was identical to yours.  I guess they are all similar in the old part.

Happy Cooking
C P

Don't forget the quest to Soap St!

It is OK Cory A, I am not offended, in fact flattered.  I think you are absolutely correct with your observations on the ingredients used by BIRs.  But it is not purist, there is no simple answer, and technique and equipment play a major part in creating 'that taste'.

I am a sort of BIR with a different approach, but I do take-aways, banquets etc as a professional business; I turned professional about 6 years ago.  Our new kitchen was built to support the business, but we made some minor mistakes and one big one - we bought a domestic look-alike range cooker (cheaper) which is almost a complete failure, so we shall replace it with a professional one at some point.

I too have searched for that Holy Grail, and I am happy now with my own selection of bases and the Ultimate of course, as they satisfy the needs of my local market.  My customers no longer go to the other takeaways/restaurants in the local towns and villages as the norm, so we must have got something right.  They like your good self were our driving force desperate for us to produce that curry house taste before they would make the leap.  NO, to be honest we haven't cracked it... yet; we are nearly there and with the new cooker we shall.

We are thinking of opening a full blown Takeaway or maybe even a small restaurant, because we have a lot of backers financial and other wise.  I only mention this because I do understand what you are searching for, and yes I have done a lot of observation and talking in the past, and it is different with each BIR.  I have even been offered membership of the Guild of Bangladesh Restaurateurs, and may take it to see if it opens the secrets door!

If you wish, I will post on the 'Hints and Tips' what I know to be the standard ingredients, but they will be my list and each BIR will be different.  By the way one of the key differentiators, which I have not seen emphasised enough here, is the Gram Masala.  This is usually the Chefs signature and what makes one BIR different from another.

As you know the vast majority of restaurants and takeaways are Bangladeshi, and thus the dishes are almost identical in every one of them, so if you crack one you have got the basics for them all.  They have their own food associations and journals and share the information we seek between them on the QT of course. 

The great variations in dishes arise in the Kashmiri, Nepalese, Indian and Pakistani restaurants, but they sadly are rare, usually very up market or embedded in the appropriate Asian domestic/work communities.  This is my area of speciality as I tend to use their techniques ingredients and flavours; that is what differentiates me for the mob here!  Mind you we only have one or two decent BIRs on the Island (besides mine of course  ;D)

Sorry to be long winded but I thought I should put forward a professional view, and of course I will help in any way I can to find the HG of Birs (if there really is such a thing).

Keep up your excellent work and I am sure you will teach me a few things, I am always learning!!  I am certainly going to try the recipes.  By the way, my quest is for fast cooked dishes with the taste and I would appreciate any recipes methods that focus on them.

Happy questing
C P

Ye Gods Chris you've cracked it, pass the cheese Grommit.  What make, what size, where can I get it, what dishes does it work best in, and what base are you using??  Nah, you are just extracting the essence..................

Happy searching
C P

Is that legal now?  :-[

Interesting subject this.  When trawling through the recipes I noticed some very authentic BIR 'Kormas'.  In my mainstream meat based 'Korma' I use my base, evaporated milk, dessicated coconut, and some tomato paste (and maybe some water).  Very simple and very quick.  So I will not bore you or clutter the boards with yet another version. 

However, as always, a bit of enlightenment.  Korma is an English word - a phonetic spelling.  This dish has an intense flavour but very little or no heat.  I believe, like CTM, it is a BIR invention.  It should be very pale with a nice aroma (Rose water - Rhu Kewra)  The Rhu Kewra is probably the only real link with the original dish.

The 'Korma' dish associated with the name bears no resemblance to the original Punjabi dish which is the Qorma (I have posted my version on the forum - Shahida's). These are dishes that use very few but quite intense spices rendered down in Yoghurt or cream or a mixture of both, until you have a dark brown sauce with meat.  The final finish is usually with Rhu Kewra.

Finally, Kurma.  Kurma is a totally different dish, usually a vegetable dish that is cooked in a very rick brown sauce made from roasted spices, the most common is Sabzi Kurma.  Sabzi means cooked vegetables.  I make this dish for my vegetarian clients using my Bargar onion base and roasted ground spices; but I guess that will not be classified as a BIR curry.

Happy Cooking
C P

If anyone wants Pat's curry powder and GM recipes I will post it.  I am sure he would not mind; even be proud!

Happy Cooking
C P

I have put this modification in because in the spirit of this Forum I seem to have posted an authentic curry recipe.  The recipe was created by me in an attempt replicate the curries made by the Everest Restaurant on Portland St Manchester city centre.   If anyone has eaten there you will recognise, I hope, the similarity.  I accept it is one of those difficult areas of definition, but if you are not a purist and you do not include the methi leaves and coriander you can treat this as a base.  I keep small pots of this frozen base for when I am doing this recipe for my customer takeaways.  My apologies to one and all

Well here it is good people.  The reason I use PC's curry powder is because it has already got all the flavours and ingredients I would normally use for this dish anyway;  it is almost Nepalese in flavour  I suppose you could use other powders or even make your own.  The important thing is to get a blend that represents Punjabi regional cooking from the far North.  A Kashmiri or Gurkha (Nepalese) powder/recipe would work well I think.  Anyway the strength and subtlety is down to the roasting of the spices. 

CP?s Punjabi Lamb

This recipe uses a curry powder and Garam Masala from Pat Chapman?s restaurant curry books.  They are recipes given to him by his Mum I believe.

You will need the following

I leg of Lamb boned, fat and sinew removed, and cut into 2 inch pieces.  I butcher my own meats and strip out the muscular meat so that it cooks properly.  This is too complex to explain here, but you should always cut meat at an angle across the grain. 

You can use boned shoulder but remember that it cooks quicker and breaks up if you are not careful. 

If you want to go ethnic then ask your butcher to simply remove the fat and band-saw whichever joint you use in to slices including the bones, and then cut into smaller pieces as described; a helal butcher will know exactly what to do.  This will of course extend the cooking time and flavour.  You could use a slow cooker for the final cooking time.

2 cups of Chilli Prawn?s Barga Onion base (a cup is 250ml)
1 560gm tin of chopped plum tomatoes (or the equivalent amount of Passata).
1 Dsp Tomato paste (concentrate)
I cup of Pat Chapman?s curry powder (you can use more if you wish)
1 Tblspn of aromatic Garam Masala (Pat Chapman?s is good)
1 Dsp of Methi seeds (Whole)
1 Dsp of Methi leaves (Kasuri dry or fresh)
1 Dsp medium chilli powder
1 Dsp salt
? tsp black pepper
1 or 2 cups of natural live yoghurt.
Handful of chopped fresh coriander (stalks and leaves **)
2 cups of Ghee or Groundnut oil

Method

Heat the oil in a heavy pan
Add the Methi seeds fry for 3-4 seconds
Add Onion Barga base and Tomato paste
Bring back to high heat and add the curry powder
Reduce to low heat and stir constantly to avoid sticking and burning for 2 minutes, add more oil if needed
Add Methi leaves, fresh Coriander, chilli powder, half the salt, and black pepper.
Turn heat to medium and stir for a further 2 minutes until oil rises and separates.  If this does not happen add more oil.
Add yoghurt a little at a time (wait for oil to rise before you add more)
Add lamb pieces and turn the heat up high, stir fry until lamb has started to turn grey (sealed), but do not brown.
Add tinned tomatoes
Cover the pan and cook on the lowest hob heat or in an oven at 90 degrees C.
Check occasionally to make sure it does not?t dry up. Add only milk if needed, please don?t add stock or water. ****
Cooking time will vary according to the quality of lamb and the nuances of your pan/hob/oven, so cook until the lamb is how you like it.  Be careful because if you overcook lamb it will break up.

Add remaining salt to taste and then add Garam Masala.

Cook for about 5 minutes (until aroma of masala rises)

And serve.

Notes/Tips

?   Onion base is simply fried whole spices (Green Cardamom, Cinnamon or Cassia, Cloves, Bay leaves) fried with finely chopped onion and garlic.
?   Water can explode spices and release the flavour too quickly, so milk is the safest and gives a better taste.
?   Coriander stalks are bitter and should never be used in a dish garnish or finisher

?   Remember to roast spices separately from eachother as each has a different time to reach its critical roast/flavour point.

I am sure you will have many questions and I will answer as best as I can.  FYI I usuall cook about 3-4 large legs of lamb in one batch.  It does freeze well.  As always the quantities are not critical but the ratios of spice and other ingredients are; for this is what distinguishes one curry from the rest.... Yes?

Happy Cooking as always
C P

Just a point on powdered Ginger and Powdered Garlic.  You might frown on their use, but they have been staple ingredients for Asian cooking on the Indian Continent forever!  They are very important ingredients for Madras regional dishes and some Kashmiri dishes.  One of my Indian chef friends swore that the only way to make a decent BIR Madras or Vindaloo was to use powdered garlic and ginger (with his base of course), sometime uses a bland flavoured paprika powder to give it more bulk and colour.

So are we chasing what in fact Indian restaurants use, what is used in traditional/ethnic curries, or what we need to use in our homes to recreate those flavours and aromas?

Perplexed for a bit

Happy Adventuring
C P