We probably have the answers on the Forum josh we just need to get them all together in the right order .

Cancel that , just read SS post 

Great job your doing here CA 
My point of going into detail ie type of frying pan , base etc is just  my way of thinking,
if we find say 7 members believe they produce ' the taste ' and 3 members don't and we then find the 7 members use Aluminum pans and the other 3 don't the Aluminium pans could be a ' Top Tip ' ? I think the ' Top Tips ' are coming on nicely 
If we dissect all this info I think we should find some solid answers.

Quote from: Bobby Bhuna on December 17, 2009, 09:43 PM
Hey guys. To name a few in no order:

• Minimal spicing - this is the most important thing I've learned (thanks CK). Less is more!
• Very few spices, namely turmeric, coriander, cumin, paprika, methi, chili and perhaps a little green cardamom in main dishes (have I neglected to mention any?). Most of us will have far more in our cupboard than most BIRs have in their kitchen. (from everything I have heard from first hand encounters on the site, and my own experiences at watching chefs cook curry from a distance / results obtained personally)
• Consistency procedure - start off with the first two small ladles of base being evaporated right off, then obtain the desired consistency with subsequent ladles. I don't think it's anything to do with caramelisation but more about imparting the full flavour of the spices into the dish
• Diluted tomato paste - you can't get it right otherwise, the tomato paste clumps up and makes it too easy to burn the spices. Diluted tomato paste goes in, get stirred and evaporated a little, off the heat, spices added, back on the heat and 30 seconds of high heat and stirring.
• Enough oil - you need IMHO a good 4 tbsp otherwise it's too dry to fry the spices properly
• Correct volume of salt - this depends on the base. Keep tasting regularly and you'll get it right

Cheers

BB

That's interesting BB , I have never seen base added before Spices ( I could be misreading   ) I have personally watched two BIR Chef's cook my Madras plus a good friend of the family who is Indian and a very keen cook all put Garlic / Ginger / Tom / Spices first ,and have said Spices must be fried in the hot oil , not added after ,  interesting post BB 
Which Base and Curry Recipe do you use BB to be able  use minimal Spicing .

Quote from: Cory Ander on December 17, 2009, 01:34 PM

Quote from: adriandavidb on December 17, 2009, 09:45 AM
Having stated the above I still find that sometimes the results are amazing and sometimes only 'good' - Obviously the subtle variables make it seem like a bit of a 'dark art'.

Why do you think that might be ADB?

Excellent answer there CA we need to get down to the Nitty Gritty 
Perhaps we could start by listing what type of frying pan you use then what base recipe followed by which Curry recipe then which order you cook your Spices and at what temperature ? ........... Perhaps it might show up some interesting similarities.

For myself it's....
1. Aluminium frying pan sourced at Asian Supermarket
2. sNs base minus the Potatoes but some Coconut block added ( experimenting )
3. sNs Madras recipe plus a pinch of dried Fenugreek
4. Start on low - med heat ( gas hob )
5. Add 1/2 tbs of Butter Ghee to pan plus veg oil to just cover base of pan
6. Start with the pinch of Fenugreek leaves ( as per my bir kitchen visit )
7. Add 1tsp minced Garlic ( from jar ) add 1/2 tsp of minced Ginger ( from jar )
fry on medium heat prob 30 - 45 seconds until it starts to change colour , add 1 tbs Tomato Puree from tube ( bought at Tesco's ) stir in , Tomato Puree does not mix in well with the oil ,
after about 30-45 seconds add 1/2 tsp of each of ground Coriander / Cumin /Turmeric / plus 1 -2 tsp of Chili powder , still with heat on medium stir in Spices in quick motion or they will burn !
after approx 30 seconds we have the ' Toffee ' smell , then add first ladle of preheated base and this will sizzle violently , raise heat slightly to keep mixture bubbling , add pre cooked Chicken previously marinated in Garlic / Ginger / Tom Puree / Turmeric / Veg Oil , add 2 more ladles of base gradually increasing heat to keep the mix bubbling , add a good pinch of chopped Coriander stalks , add a good pinch of Garam Masala a squirt of Lemon dressing and about 1 tsp of Salt stir in and taste , add more Salt if necessary ,fry mixture for a couple of Min's more adjust thickness of Curry with pre boiled water if needed , serve and garnish with Coriander leaf.   

Quote from: Cory Ander on December 17, 2009, 05:39 AM
Hi all,

We all talk (or hear talk) of the "taste" and "smell" of a typical BIR curry, irrespective of what that may mean to each of us (and I am sure that it varies with each individual's experience and perspective).

I would like to ask what SPECIFIC tips members have for achieving that BIR curry "taste" and "smell"? 

If, for example, you feel that "technique" is important, what SPECIFIC technique is important?

As EminJ stated in another post, it would be interesting and helpful to capture the DO's and the DONT's of creating that BIR curry "taste" and "smell"

Any offers?

Nice follow up post CA , be nice to have a sticky with ' definitives '

Now were getting somewhere  ;D

Quote from: JerryM on December 16, 2009, 10:11 PM

Quote from: emin-j on December 15, 2009, 07:39 PM
My post came about by following links in a couple of threads and then realizing the links were going back to 2005 ! And the info then was still current info now 

emin-j,

i've found these early posts tantalising too - as u say still current now. where are the people now or more important how are their curries - MarkJ for example he seems to have got very close. Pete seemed to know quite a lot too.

for me the biggest pleasure is the smell in my garage which lasts for about 3 days after cooking. simply brill on a monday morning at 7.00 am.

Hi Jerry , Yes at times it seemed from those early posts they had the answer to ' the taste ' but 5-6 years on we seem not much closer if any  OH ! and that smell Jerry , lasts for three days , in the living room , bedroom , wardrobe , best shirts  ;D ;D

Quote from: chriswg on December 16, 2009, 05:09 PM
I'm 99.9% sure our bases are as good as the average BIR. Lots of people here have tasted a restaurant base and reported it to be very similar to ours. Essentially no matter how many videos you watch or recipes you read they are almost all based around boiling up onions with a bit of extra veg and adding spices. The result is usually a thin lightly spiced onion soup. The key is in the cooking. If it was easy everyone would do it. The truth is most of the head chefs have been cooking curries for 20 - 30 years and will have been learning about spices since the age of about 3. They all cook by eye and instinctively know when to add which spice or garlic without burning it all. When I add garlic to hot oil it is usually black in about 30 seconds and needs to be binned and I start again. I'm not convinced there will ever be a Eurika moment when everthing suddenly comes together. I think practice makes perfect and most of us need about another 15 years practice.

chriswg , I think you would need to find what you consider your favourite T/A then use their Base and Curry recipe exactly to stand any chance of replicating it , I do believe you can not mix different Base's with different Curry Recipes for the best results.

Quote from: Derek Dansak on December 16, 2009, 12:50 PM
I used to worry (how sad  ;D ) that we would not get the real bir taste. however recently i tried about 10 different madras from all the ta,s in my area to work out how varied real bir madras can be. i concluded that many are well within our reach. I also concluded that many bir produce almost the same product(madras) , with the same flavour, and hard to tell apart. its just a matter of time until we stumble upon the right recipe to get that subtle tomato tangy taste which seems to be present in real bir madras. the average bir madras is nothing extrordinary. many i tried were little more than a standard tomatoey onion , pepper style base (the old KD base)  with light coriander spicing, and a hint of garlic. i think the safron base may have an inbuilt issue, which is that it is not good, at producing a nice underlying tomato flavour in a curry. i believe the original KD base from her older book is much better for a nice tomato bir madras flavor. over xmas i will test this theory, that the kd base is indeed better at tomatoey style madras. the safron base is very good at all other curries, but not madras i believe. I am sure in the next 1 to 3 years we will be much nearer to our goal. I know i am not that far off now, producing curry which is often fresher and more tasty than real TA's. but not identical i must admit.

Nice one DD , unless you have a side by side Curry tasting session I don't think there's any reliable way of comparing home cooked Curries to T/A Curries.

Hi JerryM ,
My post came about by following links in a couple of threads and then realizing the links were going back to 2005 ! And the info then was still current info now  It just got me thinking in the last five years have any real steps been made towards ' the taste ' , but as CA rightly pointed out , many individuals Curries have improved greatly in that time .