OI! I'm not old ya cheeky sod! I'm in me prime ;D I only remember Dot Sleightholme because she had a really loud swallow, other than that I don't recall her.....honest! I'm sure I've got a copy of a farmhouse kitchen cookbook somewhere...

QuoteBut of course, it goes without saying that I've always got time for Fanny

I think it's for the good of the board that I ignore that one! Just be glad I'm not American or I could read that entirely the wrong way SS

I remember the galloping gourmet.....they started showing his US show on ITV back when I was legging school....There was him and Martin Yan ("Yan can cook") who always had his chopper in his hand....typical bloke : 

BTW, Rusty Lee was in my home town signing her new book, I've not seen her in many a long year either

Quote from: Secret Santa on March 27, 2008, 06:53 AM
She is well coming off my pin-up wall!

She'll be heartbroken to hear that SS! Spurned before she even got a chance to know ya, how cruel! Who are you going to replace her with? Fanny Craddock or Dorothy Sleightholme?

Originally by Pappa Dom

QuotePersonally, I think it would be helpful if people could not only elaborate a little more on the ballparks temperatures and times (and their reasoning) but also on the other ways (visible, olfactory, etc) of telling when the ground spices are actually cooked properly.  I think Apprentice touched on this and suggested a more detailed explanation may also help her.

Hi Pappa Don't be scared I've got me muzzle on ;D

The trouble is, there is no hard and fast rule. Having an exact time or temperature makes little difference for the factors I have posted above. I have never read in any cookbook any guide which tells you what temperature exactly a "low heat" is, or any other heat for that matter. Deep fat fryers and ovens have temperature gauges, gas rings/electrical hobs don't usually, but they do have markings showing low, medium and high. I'm afraid I and most cookery books assume that everyone would know or have some approximation of what "a low heat" means, and I'd suggest you start there and either turn the heat up if needed or down if such be the case.

All recipes tell you an approximate cooking time or what to look out for (in this case, the toffee-like aroma which I and others have described, once you smell it, you'll know it forever and there are different ways to achieve this, you must try the different ways and settle on a technique which suits you or in your opinion gives the best results.

If you read up on roasting spices, the general consensus is to roast over a low heat until the spices give out their aromas, no doubt if there were a hard and fast rule they would state warm your pan to X degrees before adding the spices, but the cookbooks tell you to rely on your other senses (smell in this case). Obviously if you have no sense of smell, this is going to be a bit of a bugger lol
You have to learn to trust your nose, but the more you use the spices, the better you'll be able to tell.

No doubt Heston Blumenthal would know the best temperature for each individual spice to release their aromas, (perhaps Rai could e-mail him since the issue seems of such importance) but we're not all that anal about it are we? I mean I like chicken tikka but I'll be buggered if I'm gonna dig a pit in my back garden like Heston did, I'll stick to Blade's chicken tikka recipe and method thank you very much ;D

Don't forget, we use spice mixes so individual spice times are irrelevant, the best way to tell is with your nose and I'm afraid that comes with experience. Smell your raw spice mix, then keep smelling it as you heat it, (same for roasting spices pre-curry making or in the actual curry-making process itself) if there is little or no change in aroma, turn the heat up slightly (continuing with only slight increases if enough heat is not generated), you should be able to tell when it's burning by the aroma...but when you get that toffee-like hit, you have to move fast as it is not far off the burning stage (as I believe parker21 stated in an earlier post).

BTW if you haven't tried Blade's tikka recipe, you really must, it's delicious! ;D

Aye what smokenspices said

Boiling an egg is a good example, we know that water boils at 100 degrees celcius, but does knowing that fact alone allow for a perfectly cooked egg? The answer is no....there are many other factors which come into the equation, size of egg, temperature of the egg - has it been kept in the fridge or at room temperature - number of eggs being used etc etc, it all has to be taken into account or you could end up with a hard-boiled rather than a soft-boiled finish (or raw in some cases) so how do we learn to boil an egg? by doing it and learning from our mistakes (if any are made, that is).

The fact is , not everyone can boil an egg : I doubt Delia would have bothered making it a subject in her "how to cook" book/series....there are many ways to boil an egg, 4 minute, 5 minute etc we choose which way suits us best...there are foolproof ways to boil an egg, however we can all be sure that a fool will cock it up somewhere along the line :

Originally posted by Rai...

QuoteIt comes down to an approximate time at an approximate temperature domi

Thank you for finally accepting that, recipes are guidelines, knowing when things are cooked is most important, which comes with experience and is exactly what I and others have stated in this thread....

QuoteNow youre arguing against yourself domi.  Or dont you use a timer?  Just sniff the air huh

No Rai....A timer is useless if your cooker temperature gauge is wrong. Since it's commonly known that not all cooker gauges are set exactly, an exact cooking time really helps no-one, you have to cook a cake (or spices) until they're cooked, knowing when they're cooked comes with experience. A cake may look cooked, but when you take it out of the oven the drop in temperature will make the cake sink, so testing by smell and touch is important, no matter how you scoff. Since this thread is in the beginner's section, it's important to point that out as we all use different equipment, you have to know your own equipment and ingredients and how to get the best out of them, just the difference in cooking pans can make a huge difference, i.e. hot spots, heat retention, even the size of a pan can have some positive/negative effect on a dish....it's not as easy as getting an exact temperature.

I don't think anyone has an aversion to testing temperatures, but you really do have to be careful when stating exact times and temperatures as you could quite easily burn or undercook something by not taking into account the factors above (unless you're going to measure the pan temperature constantly, and you just don't have time for that (nor would I have the inclination lol). Again, you have to know when something is cooked properly....if a new cook were to cook Blade's chicken tikka, the recipe states to cook for 4 minutes either side then rest for 4 minutes, but depending on someone's grill it may take twice as long per side, and I'd hate for anyone to go down with salmonella by following an exact time :-X Knowing how to tell when your chicken is cooked is the all important thing, not necessarily just the time and temperature.

Strictly following times and temperatures can be dangerous, as any new cook needs to know, surely it's fundamental?

Or am I wrong again, Rai?

Thanks for giving it a go Jerry

I'd be careful about getting the oil too hot though before you add the tomato/chilli/g&g/onion paste, I only add around a tablespoon of oil directly to a red hot pan and throw the paste in on top of the oil then stir fry and keep it moving around the hotter edges of the pan (less chance of burning that way too) then I add the spices after a minute or so (when the toffee-like smell is, as you say more of a puff, the full aroma comes after the spices are added, then quickly add the chicken (only adding base/fried onion to lower the temp in the pan if needed). I never pre-cook the chicken either, unless it's a CT dish of course

BTW a scant quarter tsp of La chinata smoked paprika adds to the toffee-smell if you add it to the tomato/onion etc paste . Just my personal preference, some like it, others don't but it's always good to experiment I say.

One more thing I do is to add 2 good chef's pinches of kasuri methi, crushed between my fingers (follows on from Haldi's finger-sniffing post earlier lol) into my curry spice mix, I believe it really does add to the taste and smell....again, my opinion only, I don't know what kind of taste you're actually looking for and bear in mind I do like a more strongly flavoured curry (it's a northern thing, I think lol).

If nothing else, it certainly clears your sinuses ;D but parker21 did warn you

I think that's because they break the tops to put the filling in luv, still same thing though sometimes they come filled or with the filling as a side....one of my mates always gets them with a lentil dish for a starter.

Quote from: haldi on March 25, 2008, 08:26 AM
I needed to assert some self control to stop sniffing my fingers
Finger sniffing is not a habit I want to get in to!

oh come on, Haldi, live a little! LOL ;D There are worse things you could be sniffing you know...believe me - I've tried! hehehe Mind you, I also have to say that as a woman, when I sniff things people tend to think I'm sensual....but when a bloke does it, he's a pervert! Double standards I know, but hey! it works in my favour so who am I to argue? ;D

Have to admit I'm partial to a larger dose of methi in my curries too although I haven't tried adding it to the base

These are pooris/puris UB


They get served with a variety of dishes