Quote from: Blondie on June 03, 2005, 04:23 PM
Hi All,
I am finding this very annoying, I have had the KD book for many years and after all that time my conclusion is that the base sauce needs to be very simple like the KD version with very very mild slightly savoury taste.? It seems to me that the KD base was very near perfect all along, but the method and overspicing of the final dishes let them down.
Blondie

Yes, the base really isn't that bad.
I've posted recipes which are very similar from chefs!
But the the curry secret recipes are rubbish.
None seem to have the pureed garlic in.
None seem to do the chopped garlic bit either.
No mention of pre fried onion.
And loads of garam masala used.
I don't think these recipes are from first hand experience.
All the kitchens I  have been in, use these ice cream (or yoghurt) cartons with puree garlic and chopped garlic which seem to be in just about every  meal.
Curry Secret gives no mention of  chicken stock either.
But the base is ok

Following the converstation I had with a chef, I bought the said Maggi packet chicken soup.
He said any extra chicken flavour came from this soup.
None was in the base though.
Here is a list of ingredients:-

wheat flour
iodised salt
skimmed milk
chicken meat
chicken fat
onions
natural identical chicken flavour (I really like that one!!)
flavour enhancers:- monosodium glutamate,diosodium inosinate & diosodium guanylate
spices:- turmeric,rosemary,bay leaves
traces of celery

This stuff sounds good enough to eat!
And it's surprising how many things we have actually ended up putting in our curry gravy anyhow.
(even celery!)
I won't be using it til next weekend, but will report back

Going back to the tandoor flavour debate
You will clearly get a tandoor flavour in your chicken tikka masala, as the chicken was cooked in the tandoor, but I don't get why it's in even the veg and dhall curries?
I mean, if we don't agree that something from the tandoor goes in the gravy, what else could be in it?
We don't have any other theories knocking about except for the black cardomons idea.
Is this a dead end?

Yes, that does seem possible, something from the tandoor is getting in the base, somehow.
I was looking at some tandoor recipes and, it seems a commonplace thing, for a piece of onion to be stuck on the end of the meat skewers.
This stops the kebabs or tandoori chicken falling off into the bottom of the tandoor.
Maybe this cooked,juice laden onion ends up in the base?

Everything cooked in the restaurants is derived from traditional indian cooking.
That information is all there
I don't think there is a special way to cook black cardomons to bring out a different flavour.
You either fry, boil or both.
We've done that.
Atually, I did try incinerating them last Sunday, too.
The smell has nearly gone

Quote from: DARTHPHALL on June 03, 2005, 08:29 AM
When i fry Onions,Garlic & ginger it bears no resemblance to the smell I'm trying to recreate

I am sure it's from the tandoor
I have been in the kitchens when this smell is being made and it doen't smell so strong there.
It's mainly being vented outside (check the large metal pipes, about 14 inch diameter), all that was going on was curry gravy being warmed up and the tandoor cooking kebabs.
When I came home,I was told that I reeked of an indian restaurant.
And I couldn't tell.
Of one thing I am sure
There are two different aromas
The curry gravy/cooked curry smell
The tandoor smell
We all make the first, but the ellusive one is the second.
Let's face it, when someone lights up a babeque, you can smell it from a hundred yards.
The tandoor is like a very intense spicy barbeque

We have loads of witnessed curries being cooked.
This part is really simple
We seem to agree the base is about right
What we are missing is this strong smell that gets into the curry
I have been re reading the Bruce Edwards Curry House Cookery
His description of the "smokey barbeque flavour"from the Tandoor is what we want, isn't it?
That's why Mark J was told by his chef, cooking at home isn't the same result.
No tandoor.........No aroma
What do you think?
Or do people still think there is a missing ingredient or tecnique.
If Kris Dhillons base had the smell to it, we'd be there, wouldn't we?
Some of us have been plugging away for a very long time.
I don't believe we couldn't have had a happy accident by now.

I went back to a restaurant where they are helpfull.
That wonderful aroma was all in the air
The one we want in our  curries
"what is that incredible smell" I asked and I got a straight answer.
He said it is from the tandoor.
I suggested that it was kebabs but he said it was TANDOORI CHICKEN.
I think the only way to prove anything now is to buy a tandoor.
I have looked on the internet and they seem to be about ?400-?500
That's a lot of money.
With something that smells that strong it really would get into everything around.
I think the curry gravy simply absorbs the smell by being left, without a lid on, and exposed to it for hours.
What do you all reckon?
If I got one then I think I would have to cook in my shed.
I would like my house smelling like that, but my family would object!
Mad aren't they?
I asked a few other questions too.
"Do you add chicken stock to your curry gravy?"
He said no but if any extra chicken flavour is used, it comes from Maggi powdered chicken soup.
"what do you precook your meat and veg in?"
He anwered oil and salt.
He is a really lovely, helpful man and I am certain everthing he said was completely truthful

It's funny how we all knew about this but, when I wrote to the blender manufacturer, they had never heard of the problem!!
Thanks for all the advice

We have all experimented with all the available spices oils and ghees.
We know loads of good recipes for the gravy
We know about the browning garlic ginger (which some places put into the gravy)
We know about chicken stock.
We know about precooked ingredients

I don't believe that their is something we could not have accidentally come across.
The only thing they do that we don't, is use the tandoor.
Everything else we have.
That wonderful smell must come from cooking the chicken or lamb.
Probably the kebabs
I can't see it being anything else.
It's such a strong smell
Has anyone ever tried making Kebabs?
Seekh kebab is in Kris Dhillons book

This search is driving me round the bend.
I went out again trying to get information
I'm afraid I got nothing new.
There was a takeaway that had recently changed management.
As I approached there was the initial curry gravy smell.
It's the same as we all make.
The spicy,oily, boiled onion aroma.
I know we've all got that right.
Then the second smell hit me.
The really nice one.
The one that's in the curry
The one we can't get.
So I went in and spoke to the chap behind the counter.
And, as I did, the manager came out wiping his mouth.

I said "I'm sorry to trouble you, but what is that amazing cooking smell?"
He replied "that's all the food cooking"
So I said that I made curry gravy and tried to cook like a takeaway and I couldn't get the same result.
He then asked what I put in the gravy and he started to rattle off the spices we have all tried:-
Coriander,Cummin,Turmeric,Chilli,Bay leaves,Cinnamon Sticks,Green Cardamon.
He really emphasised Black Cardamon.
He said that I wasn't bringing out the full flavour of the spices.It is to do with timing and temperature.
I said I would like to pay for lessons.
He then clammed up.
"Too busy" he said
I smiled and thanked him anyhow and went home.
So I heated up a small pan of oil really hot.
I then added some crushed black cardamons and cinammon sticks to see if I could duplicate that wonderful aroma.
Instead I stunk out the kitchen something rotten.
Mark J if you are reading this then please see the offered demo of curry gravy, and find out WHAT is making the smell which leads inevitably to the "taste".
Please