Quote from: George on February 20, 2012, 10:39 PM

Quote from: noble ox on February 20, 2012, 07:32 PM
I have been reading this thread with some interest and am now wondering if it is a huge "wind up"

My hunch is that it's certainly not an intentional wind up, but the FF5 were like kids in a sweet shop and their infectious enthusiasm has rolled on for over a week now. Good luck to them, but all this % talk is so nominal and meaningless. Darth was claiming 99% c2005 so how come we've dropped back by at least 2%?

It remains to be seen whether this will enter the history books as a very significant moment for the forum in most folks' eyes.

Maybe Darth was cooking his properly?...it's still a bit hit & miss at the moment for me, but putting emphasis on the very 1st sttge of cooking gave me the only bir taste yet

QuoteIt is part of a neglected cooking process already mentioned on this forum, but quickly forgotten

Neglected & but not given much importance , I'm not sure if the process burns the spices slightly or just cooks them properly, I don't have the experience yet. It had been drummed into me about how easily spice burns & usually ended in a bottle job!


EDIT- the more I learn, I see a large % of the traditional bir process,  the mass production of a fairly large menu, with as least fuss as possible...you could always 'singe' the spices into a homestyle curry, instead of adding them with a whole lot of other ingredients as is frequently called for
see the difference?

the real secret ingredient however, has been written on here, trouble is it was typed in white font 

ELW

QuotePS I think 1 to 4 with water may be a little to thin/weak IMHO

I was using 1/4 Salkim tomato paste for testing on Saturday, to concentrate more on the spices in the hot pan.
using the paste to quench the spices, then gravy, got me the best results. A 2 or 3 in 1 would produce a better flavour imo, if the cooking is right.
I caught a whiff of a local bir aroma the other night (not the fenugreek/methi smell) & it's unmistakable once the hooter's trained. 

pan 'roasted' g&g /  hot fused spices & tomato paste  = "the taste"

ELW

Quote from: chriswg on February 20, 2012, 01:08 PM
The Fleet 5 does sound a little bit like an IRA terrorist group. Oh well!

Quote from: Phil (Chaa006) on February 20, 2012, 06:05 PM

Quote from: chriswg on February 20, 2012, 01:08 PM
The Fleet 5 does sound a little bit like an IRA terrorist group.

The Fleet 5 are innocent, OK.

Spray this on every motorway bridge gantry and brick wall that you pass :-)

;D, Should have been Zaal 5 to credit Az, doesn't roll off the tongue & catch the notoriety as well as the Fleet5. I think F5 are on Saturday Kitchen this week

The Fleet5's dabs are all over this one!
ELW

Quote from: curryhell on February 19, 2012, 02:05 PM
Well, here goes guys.  I hope some of it helps

A week today five of us set off for Zaal

Quote from: haldi on February 18, 2012, 08:08 PM
I must have got something wrong
The curries were good, but not exceptionally good
Maybe I disagree with Az
This is Rocket Science
The base smelt great, the spice had an incredible aroma, the chicken was just right,the curries texture were perfect
I just don't get it

In most of the curries I buy, there is an underlying flavour
And it's not in tonight's home cooked curries

Hi Haldi, the flavour of the base, as we know it when tasting, seems to fade into the background somewhat, once the spices are fused, 'layers of flavour' is a great description, the originator of which I don't know. You'll be kicking yourself soon, when you realise how simple it is...I am
Good luck
ELW

Quote from: emin-j on February 19, 2012, 06:10 PM
CH well done for finally reaching your Holy Grail  ;D
A couple of questions mate,do you think using veg ghee had anything to do with achieving 'the taste' and do you think you could repeat this again using veg oil 

Hi emin-j, I'm sure using veg ghee would more closely replicate the bir from around these parts, but its definately not critical. I used Flora sunflower oil yesterday, as I had no veg oil left. The cooking of those spices are looking to me to be more like the 95% not the 5%. Someone posted about an unwanted flavour in their curries a while back. It was blamed on all sorts.    The unwanted flavour in my curries, was undercooked spices. The taste & smell of mix powder was in them,almost if I had been eating it from the jars. I posted on here when I joined, about a burned taste from one of my t/a's, when trying to establish what the unusual taste was. I know now thats exactly what it was.
I think a confident, steam in approach with the heat / pan & spoon, spreading all the ingredients out evenly across the pan,( no clumps etc. )really does help, especially at the initial stage. No limp prodding & stirring. I've only been doing it a day, but you will get a feel for it....as has been said, no timers or science lab coats are required for this.  ;D
I'm no expert emin-j,  ;D but I reckon I could use a soup in place of a curry base & still cook those spices in, it really is that important. The spices can take more heat than has been ingrained into us, without turning bitter! I'm still at early days & consider myself now a complete beginner, armed with the basics

For testing I use:
Base
Oil
Tomato paste
G&G paste - the ratio's aren't crucial to fusing the spices, but the flavour it imparts on the curry definately is...I used both yesterday
Salt
mix powder / Zaal at the moment

If its not there, bin it & start again
I'm sure you'll have this down after a few more go's..good luck 
ELW

Edit - I wouldn't recommend using sunflower oil if it's going on full heat-veg /groundnut/ghee can be heated more without it smoking & turning to carcinogens

Quote from: natterjak on February 19, 2012, 06:17 AM

Quote from: ELW on February 19, 2012, 03:01 AM

QuoteHi CT, yes absolutely I agree, both you and other posters have mentioned this technique and to be clear I'm not claiming it as a new discovery, simply that I hadn't understood what was meant by "burn the spices" until I saw it happen in front of me and (perhaps most importantly) smelled it... I think there will be a number of forum members who, despite it having been mentioned in the past, will not have picked up on the importance of this point nor perhaps understood how to put it into practice. Maybe this is what will prove to be the most useful function served by this thread and the associated videos

Nicely put into a few sentences, a corner has been turned natterjack, now I can correct the disservice I've done on nearly every bir recipe I've attempted & do them properly  :. Only now will the talent of a skilled chef become apparent, now we have the basics down.The possibilities are endless. I've a tough task ahead trying to recreate the top bir in my city, but the sky's the limit

Hi ELW, burning the midnight oil? (as well as the spice mix?)

Actually I feel the same way, i think many of the curry recipes which have left me underwhelmed in the past year should be given a second chance now I have this new variable to play with. I've tended to go from one base to another to yet another hoping to correct deficiencies in the taste of my curries by somehow chancing on a "magic" base but now I'm quite sure the larger part of the answer lies in what happens in the pan before the base is added. I even cooked my last batch of base for hours hoping to be able to rid myself of the undercooked undertones I could taste in my finished dishes, undertones which have disappeared since I've started singeing the spices & tomato puree.

When Chriswg proposed lessons with Az I was eager to sign up to them and happy to pay the asking price but never expected to get quite so much from the day. I'm especially delighted that it's not just those of us who were in the kitchen and who experienced that distinctive throat-grabbing smell who have been able to turn it to their advantage at home but other guys like yourself are also onboard and understanding this key point now.

Yes NJ, up late last night, I reckon CA's ceylon, could be good shout. Not something I've ever ordered, but it tasted great even though I never hit the bir version.

@emin-j, yes the the spices in the hot pan with the garlic got me the best results by far....then fried in the tomato...all done very quickly!!. There's more risk in doing this, but it's not difficult. In the pan with the tomato at the same time still does it. This may be down to the heat of my pan compared to Az, but even on lower heat it could still be done, just not 'in a flash'. I would suggest not making too much of a paste with the spices & tomato, too quickly, if you think you may have heat issues. The spices definately benefited from hitting the pan on their own
Once I was running out of base, I stepped up a finished basic curry by putting it back into the pan & adding Ashoka Onion paste, the results of this were fantastic, wiping the bowl clean fantastic if you know what I mean.

I also cooked the Moroccan spice blend ras el hanout the same way later on, with similar magical properties!

Sunflower oil was all I had left, but veg oil/ghee/ groundnut will smoke less
ELW

QuoteHi CT, yes absolutely I agree, both you and other posters have mentioned this technique and to be clear I'm not claiming it as a new discovery, simply that I hadn't understood what was meant by "burn the spices" until I saw it happen in front of me and (perhaps most importantly) smelled it... I think there will be a number of forum members who, despite it having been mentioned in the past, will not have picked up on the importance of this point nor perhaps understood how to put it into practice. Maybe this is what will prove to be the most useful function served by this thread and the associated videos

Nicely put into a few sentences, a corner has been turned natterjack, now I can correct the disservice I've done on nearly every bir recipe I've attempted & do them properly  :. Only now will the talent of a skilled chef become apparent, now we have the basics down.The possibilities are endless. I've a tough task ahead trying to recreate the top bir in my city, but the sky's the limit 

Quote

Quote from: curryhell on February 18, 2012, 01:53 PM

Quote from: ELW on February 18, 2012, 01:26 PM
I hear Az, calling it puree in the phall video. Paste is sweeter isn't it? I can't find White Tower out of the big c&c's too often. Some Tescos may have it   They have all the brands associated with asian foods, Natco/WT/East End, versions of puree's & pastes...I've been using the Italian stuff , Is this anyway different?

There is a thread and  a lot of discussion about the differences between paste, puree, pasata etc somewhere, which gets heated at one point, just for a change ;D
Az calls it puree but it is diluted concentrated paste that we were using.  I discussed this stuff at some length with him over a cigarette to see whether he did anything special in its preparaton.  In the preparation of the gravy etc we were using blended tinned tomatoes as opposed to the "puree".
It doesn't have to be the white tower brand, any will do.  I'm sure Az buys whats best priced at the time.  As for there being any difference, i'm not sure but i wouldn't think so. I've never tried anything else and have always used the paste and diluted it down.

@curryhell , the great thing about those Asian guys, is that they won't let you leave empty handed  ;D...."White Tower sir., it's very good brand..but we don't have any..come in on Tuesday & I'll have some for you". If I'd asked him for Bob Marley quilt & pillow covers, they'd be there on Tuesday too, along with my tomato paste 
ELW

Hi nzfen, welcome to cr0, I would follow the current thread on the Az,Zaal restaurant in Fleet, threads, & use them as your starting points. The key to this whole melarky has been revealed to me in the past week & as such I'm seeing the recipe's & tips on here in a new light.
Thats Elgin Scotland right?

After the AZ , Zaal stuff I would head here as you may be famliar with the chain

Ashoka Glasgow Report: ]https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.0]
Ashoka Glasgow Recipe's https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5355.0

Zaal, Abdulmohed, Chewytikka, Infindforu, Cory Ander to name but a few, all have loads of recipe's on here. These recipe's are then tested to death by forum members
Regards
ELW